Can a giclee' on canvas be heat mounted?

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JRB

JRB

PFG, Picture Framing God
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I know there are some producers of giclee's on The Grumble, can you answer this question?

How about everyone else, have you ever heat mounted a giclee' on canvas? Did you have any problems?

John
 
Although I have not tried it, I would be doubtful of any great success, Solvent based prints will generally be very unhappy about having heat slammed onto them and Pigment based printing requires a "sized" surface which would likely tack up and come adrift. An eco, or mild solvent print may be okay but would generally not be used for production of photographic or art prints unless going big and outdoors.
 
John -
If the giclee' is printed on canvas, why not just attach it to stretcher bars like normal?
I always "test" these "giclee's" before dry-mounting them since some of the papers/inks don't react well to the heat - especially when they're fresh off the printer. You might want to experiment w/ a printed canvas using "fusion" I've had success w/ it on foamboard. But, not all canvases are the same.
 
Almost all of the Giclees I have seen here were on canvas.

%99 of the time, we attached them to stretchers. Once, we had a really small one, maybe 10 x 10, we spray-mounted it and then it went into the heat press. It looked fine.
 
We have always stretched them. My customer wanted it mounted. We mounted it, we destroyed it. The thing I am trying to determine is if the print was a canvas transfer or a giclee'. I was going to cold mount it, somehow it got into the heat mount lineup. We do all our days heat mounting at one time, just to save on the print mount machine operating costs. Just looking for input from all you folks. I honestly do not know what heat would do to a canvas transfer or a giclee'

John
 
IMHO and upfront I have learned a couple of VERY expensive lessons about heat mounts....

It is my understanding of all canvas transfer, there is use of a heat press in the lamination process.

As for putting a small tiny infitesimal itsy bitsy dent in a bootlegged Lyle Lovett poster.... 6 months, and $600 later...

Makes you want to look the poster up on the internet before you touch the thing.

I know that I always ask where they got it before I'll do the work.
 
We have always used stretcher bars for mounting canvas. Right or wrong, we have always told our clients that heat could damage the print and have refused to mount them any other way. Some clients are convinced that they have originals instead of prints and this method seems to add to their misconceptions and keeps us out of trouble.

Jack Cee
 
John,

I used fusion on one canvas giclee and it was fine.

You said "we destroyed it." How?

I have seen a great variance in inks used with inkjet printers. Some behave very badly with heat, some are OK. I've also noticed differences in sizing (or lack thereof) when using canvas for printing. A cheap sizing with a cheap ink probably has no chance.
 
Originally posted by Cliff Wilson:


I have seen a great variance in inks used with inkjet printers. Some behave very badly with heat, some are OK. I've also noticed differences in sizing (or lack thereof) when using canvas for printing. A cheap sizing with a cheap ink probably has no chance.
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There lies the question...how can you tell if its cheap sizing w/ cheap ink? Ask it if it will pay for dinner?
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Point 1:
If you are considering mounting any piece that you are not sure of you must do tests. Put some release paper on the margins or the corner of the print and use the tacking iron. Sneak up on the mounting a little at a time - a little more heat, a little more area, until you have confidence. It's not prudent to just stuff it in the press and hope for the best.

Point 2:
For all those misc prints that you're just not sure if they are on real photo paper or somebody's home inkjet printer get a roll of 3M PMA (Positional Mounting Adhesive) and cold mount by hand - comes in 16 inch rolls and saves a lot of worry.

Point 3:
I make Giclee's on canvas, I have 2 associates that print on canvas, and I am aquainted with a fellow that prints high end Giclees on top of the line Iris printers. All of us coat our canvas prints with either a varnish or acrylic to protect them as we expect them to be framed without glass. I have tested a few different types of theses coatings by drymounting and have had no problems.
 
We had a very educational class last year on digital printing at Fine Print here in Fort Collins, CO. Kathy Bauer from Fine Print frequents the Grumble, hopefully she will see this question.

I have to say, I thought the class would help me determine what kind of giclee I had but honestly it didn't. It just depends on who made them and how. Is it pigment or dye based inks? Was it coated? Is the canvas cotton or poly blend? We have no way to determine this with out testing. As we learned in the class there are a lot of people out there printing using God knows what. It has caused some difficulties for framers in my opinion. I too have had my trials and tribulations with mounting giclees on canvas. Giclees on paper can be treated like any other piece of art, not having the inherent problems as the canvas ones do.

I wish the giclee "industry" would come up with some standards. It would be helpful if they possibly could print a line somewhere in the border lisitng what went into making the giclee. That way we could act accordingly.
 
Paul, you need to keep up.................It is "Grumbel Peace Prize", it is the official title. I think it is a play on "Nobel Peace Prize". Get it? Not to worry.....I think I have worn that one out and am on a mission to find a new signature line.
 
Kathy- your post says it all. Obviously things haven't changed since I attended a panel discussion on mounting digitally produced / giclee media featuring several "experts" in printing and moderated by Chris Paschke, at the WCAF show in about 2001. After all the discussion, the bottom line was that because of all the variables of inks, substrates, and coatings, there were basically no standards that would reliably predict what could or could not be heat mounted. Bottom line for me is, if it even hints that it could be digital in any way, no heat.
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Rick
 
Canvas Transfer Ordering Experience--mount/stretch

Some observations as we are new to the heat press and still getting used to canvas transfers and giclees on canvas. We are currently working on a 26 piece corporate order. Several are large canvas transfers from McGaw and Artaissance.

To save time we ordered 7 big canvases already stretched from McGaw. They only coat the canvas with UV protective spray when they send the canvas stretched. They all arrived damaged. Packing was sloppy with no board between the faces of the canvases. All had heavy stretcher bar marks around the sides and had to be returned. We tried to restretch one but the marks were impossible to pull out. On our second try we ordered them rolled. They came in all on one big roll. No problem. We cut them and stretched them without incident. However, without the protective coating they are very delicate and come with a printed warning not to get them wet. OTOH, they are brighter without the coating and look more like the images in the catalogue.

The Artiassance images are on a heavier canvas and are actually brighter than the online images. Deeper color intensity. Not sure if they are coated, but it looks like they are.

I would not attempt to heat mount either product. We did mount a photo on canvas at a customer's request last week. No problem with that. We used Versamount from Print Mount (Flo Bond type paperless film).
 
When in doubt, don't. I forgot this rule on Thursday, so I have to call the customer. Hope it doesn't cost TOO much to replace a huge photo of a Safeway delivery truck.

"When will they ever learn? When will they e-v-e-r learn?" [we need some easily inserted muscial notes...]
 
We print on an Epson 7600 with Ultrachrome inks.

We dry mount with heat if the print is on photo paper. No problems.
We cold mount on Crescent Perfect Mount if the print is on canvas. No problems.

We cold mount on Perfect Mount if the print is made by someone else, canvas or photo paper.

With Perfect Mount you have to give it 8 hours without stress for the mount to cure.

I had a rejected mounted canvas print and did a torture test. The mount held while the foam board came de-laminated.

Doug
 
From what I understand canvas has to breathe otherwise it will rot and thats one of the reasons we don't put glass on canvas. I never drymount canvas for fear that this could happen. I prefer stretcher bars.
 
Kimmy, that is an old framers tail. I was told the same thing 24 years ago.

I have heat mounted hundreds of canvas "giclees" all came from epson 9600/9800 inkjet printers. The only problem that we ever had is them not sticking well to speedmount. They do better with fusion.
 
FrameMakers said:
Kimmy, that is an old framers tail. I was told the same thing 24 years ago.

I have heat mounted hundreds of canvas "giclees" all came from epson 9600/9800 inkjet printers. The only problem that we ever had is them not sticking well to speedmount. They do better with fusion.
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I was told that over twenty years ago too and haven't heard anything different until today. I have dealt with so many old rotted canvases over the years that have been mounted to one thing or another and always thought it was because the canvas couldn't breathe. Thanks for the info!

Have you had any trouble with the ink changing color using heat?
 
Not on the ones from the Epson printers. A few years ago we were getting in a lot of color photocopies. If you heat mounted them the surface bubbled up like it was boiling.

As to rotted canvases, I would bet that most had been stored in a basement or garage before coming to see you. :)
 
Kimmy said:
From what I understand canvas has to breathe otherwise it will rot and thats one of the reasons we don't put glass on canvas. I never drymount canvas for fear that this could happen. I prefer stretcher bars.
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Urban Legend(s)

  1. After disecting more than my share of canvases, I have personally found none to have any organs that would facilitate gas exchange. Simply put, no lungs, no breathing.
  2. Drymount does not cause "Dry-rot". Nor does wet mounting cause wet-rot. It's all rot, and it has to do with conditions [like Dave said about in the basement for 20 years...], self distructing unrefined jute, high content of Haitian cotton, short fiber linens, and any number of things.
  3. Done correctly wet mounting with a proper fabric adhesive is less invasive and more bonding than Fusion; and requires NO or Lower heat (about 125-150).
  4. Glaze those suckers..... oil if it is dry, and acrylic always. Unless you live in the Azzors where the air is "almost" clean.
 
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