BUYER BEWARE!

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Linda & Dave

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Dec 11, 2007
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Expanding on Paul's "TOTALLY fed-up with some suppliers"......what's with suppliers constantly being out of inventory!! And, United is a prime example of this........yes, I'm naming names too. And, yes, I understand in the current economy distributors are cutting back inventories, but not maintaining inventory levels on standard products framers need/use everyday is more than a problem of just inventory reduction.

So I say BUYER BEWARE! Before placing your next order, I strongly recommend confirming your supplier has (in stock) the item(s) you're purchasing before placing your order. Otherwise, your setting yourself up for possible extended backorders and additional shipping charges......like we recently did with United. Our last order with United was 16 items, half of which(including wire, and bumpons) were backorders on the 1st shipment. And each time they made another shipment we got charged additional freight charges. We've made it VERY clear to United that we will never use their website to place orders, nor will we place any order without first confirming their inventory in stock. There are plenty of other suppliers we can use for many of the same products they carry.
 
RParrish said:
The economy is tough for everyone I would guess...

but this really belongs in another forum not "warped" we don't talk about stinking framing here ...
Click to expand...

Warped is the only non-public part of The Grumble, so it makes sense to me that non-public framing topics should be discussed here too.
 
j Paul said:
Now you two aren't making any sense at all. This isn't Warped!

Must have been moved already or you are smoking something.
Click to expand...



The funny thing is I did indeed open this thread in The Grumble... ah, the power of suggestion. :D
 
Lol had to laugh at this posting. Lets see if the owner of United list what they ordered on this site. I found other company's to order from other than them, just have to look. Nice to see i wasnt imagining them out of stock. My best to the originator of this thread.
 
I've found United's 'in stock' availability to be an issue lately as well. I wonder if it's because United's suppliers are selling the merchandise to all the new competitors.

In an effort to stay in business many companies are looking both upstream and downstream of their business to steal clients.

We have moulding companies approaching our customers trying to get them to purchase directly, offering complete framing packages; these same companies are now competing with suppliers like United for their customer's.

Moulding manufacturers are selling directly to the public via the Internet, moulding distributors are selling complete frame packages as well as framing supplies to both wholesale and retail customers, frame shops print artwork directly in their shops.

It's a vicious circle we're caught in.
 
I just received a letter (included in my invoice) from one of my moulding distributors that they will stop selling mouldings as soon as their current stock is depleted becuase "the local moulding manufacturers we order from have all gone direct to your retail shop in the past year". sign of the times...

Regards,
Troy
 
I tried to order from United once about 6 months ago and it was like 15 to 20 items and they called me 3 days later and told everything but the Kraft paper and one box of Offsets were on BO so I cancelled it then they still shipped the Kraft paper and tried to charge me 60 bucks for shipping (on just the kraft paper) when shipping on my whole order would have been 48 bucks or something.
 
I agree that it's frustrating. I've used supplies from United
for the past 18 years, and it does get frustrating when
they back order things, then send them in dribs and drabs
with a separate shipping charge for each item. Really,
really frustrating.
 
Morgan, why would you order a 50lb roll of paper from NY, when there are four suppliers in the North West that would bring it to you on their truck?

Oh I give up.
 
Here's another possibility...

Maybe the industry is picking up enough that our distributors are running out sooner than when we were in slow motion and they haven't stepped up their stock quantities to match it yet. Maybe it takes a couple of months for them to see a continuous need for more of a product before increasing their inventory.

Right now, I haven't been this busy in here for at least 6 years. Some of my own stock is very close to the edge of what i feel comfortable with and I will be boosting it up a notch.
Think of it as a good thing that business is picking up.

Just a thought...
 
framah said:
Here's another possibility...

Maybe the industry is picking up enough that our distributors are running out sooner than when we were in slow motion and they haven't stepped up their stock quantities to match it yet. Maybe it takes a couple of months for them to see a continuous need for more of a product before increasing their inventory.
Click to expand...

For the sake of all framers, I hope you are right about business picking up. We've seen modest gains in our shop recently, but the state of the business in months ahead is still anybody's guess.

For our suppliers, boosting inventory of mouldings may not be fast or convenient, regardless of their good intentions. Moulding production is nearly all done overseas now, and it sometimes takes 3 to 6 months for delivery after an order is placed. Meanwhile, our suppliers have no choice but to disappoint us.

The success or failure of wholesale distributors may hinge on how well they manage their inventories, which often involves crystal-ball gazing. Buying too little inventory can result in lost sales. Buying too much can cause fatal cash flow problems.

It's a difficult time for everyone in the industry when our market shrinks, and again when it expands.
 
Have you considered writing "Please call with out of stocks, no backorders" on your order? Since I have done this, I don't have surprises. Sometimes there might be a substitution and if I know when the item(s) will come in, I might be able to let it go until the next order.

Susan
 
Honey or Vinegar

I would like to be the first to admit that we have been having issues with inventory. Many manufacturers (our suppliers) are also having inventory issues. Could this be due to our fabulous economy and low unemployment? Our stock situation is improving daily. These issues are our top priority.

I would address Linda and Dave's problem directly but I choose not to. The reason is civility. I prefer to remain civil. Dave however believes that yelling and threatening the customer service agents serves a purpose. Dave the message I have for you is "you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. The question I have for you is what purpose yelling at a young lady serves? A little civility goes a long, long way. Dave, try this, sit down and repeat after me "321 -123 what the #### is bothering me". Then call with your problems and they will be addressed. Call up screaming again and I cannot promise to follow my own advice.
P.S. I was monitoring your call.
 
unitedmfrs said:
I would address Linda and Dave's problem directly but I choose not to. The reason is civility. I prefer to remain civil. Dave however believes that yelling and threatening the customer service agents serves a purpose. Dave the message I have for you is "you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. The question I have for you is what purpose yelling at a young lady serves? A little civility goes a long, long way. Dave, try this, sit down and repeat after me "321 -123 what the #### is bothering me". Then call with your problems and they will be addressed. Call up screaming again and I cannot promise to follow my own advice.
P.S. I was monitoring your call.
Click to expand...

Well, yelling at the customer service folks isn't cool, I completely agree. But in all honesty, I'm not sure how I feel about this post. I think you did indeed address their complaint directly.

Either way, hopefully you look at this backorder issue with the shipping. Seems that there is quite a bit of frustration with that issue in this thread. I moved to another vendor for that exact reason for most of my supplies (although I still order a few small things from UMFRS). I know my business isn't enough to impact you, but I can't believe that calling customers to follow up on a backorder instead of shipping automatically and racking up costs to them is that much trouble if it would have helped keep a few people.

I never did have an issue with any of the fine ladies that answered the phone though. Also never knew that anyone else was listening, so I'm glad I was on my best behavior.
 
owner

I faxed a good size order to United. They quickly called me to let me know they were out of screw eyes for the next six months. I cancelled the entire order. If I was United I would have quietly ordered screw eyes from other suppliers no matter the cost and sell them for a loss if necessary. Who runs out of every size of screw eyes?
 
Between your posts here you are showing an arrogance that shows why people are moving away from you.

You stated that you would not address the issue about Dave and then you proceeded to trash him. The snide remark "you did" was really disappointing! He did not necessarily run out of screws eyes as you apparently did but was trying to keep his stock up.

The suggestion of telling the supplier not to ship unless order is complete doesn't work either. On our second to last order with United we were told all items were in stock and then received the order over about 3 weeks with 3 different invoices for shipping.

When we placed the last order we specifically asked if everything was in stock we were told it was and then we stated the problem we had with the last order and how shipping like that was eating into our profit. We again stated to ship everything at once with one shipping charge...........well that didn't happen again!

Every REPUTABLE company that I've done business with in the past when they have supply problems like this and have to make several shipments have ALL paid for the extra shipping charges!
 
I don't like where this thread is headed, so please continue! :party:

We're getting into some emotional "dressing down" here, so:

Framers - if it's out of stock, order elsewhere. Yes, we're making a living (or trying to), but it's not worth getting bent out of shape over. If one place can't fill your order, try another...AMS, M&M?

Vendors - if someone yells at your employee, you have choices. Thank them for their past patronage, and let them know their business is no longer welcome. Too harsh? Pick up the phone. Can't handle that? How about a politely worded email?

Yes, OS's and BO's are a PITA. Let's deal with it an move on.
 
I thought it was funny, I mean who uses screw eyes these days.

The OP trashed United and from what United has said the OP was WAY OUT OF LINE.

There are two sides to every story.

And there are better places and methods for dealing with this, IMO.
 
Oh boy Randy, now you did it. It was my experience that talking bad about United isnt allowed. Don't be surprised that your order history will be posted by Peter. All I did a couple years ago was ask about other suppliers and commented about the back orders and he posted what I had ordered.
 
I thought it was funny also. I guess humor here is not understood. The idea of purchasing an item and losing money selling it just to have stock is the funniest thing stated here today.

Keeping inventory for 8000 items with 700 plus vendors is trying at best. When things are slow inventories necessarily are kept tighter. Certain items are now only available from overseas and with the time of shipping, hold ups with customs clearing the freight and delays in shipping from overseas vendors are all reasons for out of stocks. Many of the major manufacturers also are keeping tight inventories and this affects us all. As we approach our season we are increasing inventories to keep up. Bear with us and soon all the inventory issues will be addressed. I cannot promise 100% but we actively working to get as close as possible as soon as possible.

Please if you do doubt that this is an industry wide problem, I invite you to tell me which vendors have a perfect record of in stock merchandise at all times.
 
Peter,

No doubt people run out. Certainly happens and is understandable. Especially these days. But what about the idea of contacting the customer before shipping a B/O or OOS to verify if they still want it before sending it and racking up additional shipping costs? Any chance of that being added as part of your customer service process?
 
Why do we yell at these suppliers when there is an out of stock problem. Get use to it as with this economy it is only going to get worse. We as buyers need to handle our inventory better and buy accordingly, not at the last minute and expect eveyone to have it in stock.

I just place da good sized order from United. They called right away to say 10% of the items were out of stock. They would be shipped the following week. I have enough on hand so I wasn't worried. The first part of my order arrived today, 6 days after placing the order and that is pretty darn good, from the Carolina's to Seattle! My order was large enough for free shipping, so thank you Peter.

I have been ordering from United for over 20 years and have always been treated with respect. There have been ups and downs over the years, but all in all, I will not threaten them in a public forum and go elsewhere.

ENOUGH BASHING.

Let's start a new thread on praising suppliers.
 
Oh oh oh oh pick me pick. I know of one. TC Moulding. Over a year now and not one back order. Love my rep. Okay, does that get me home made bread again? Or home grown strawberries. Does answer your question Pete?
 
Wow!! Over a year now!! ...and you think that is a good example?

Well, it isn't. It quite possible that you have been lucky in what you ordered but for only a year now isn't a good rule of thumb for this discussion.


I agree with Peter here. How can anyone expect him to have EVERYTHING in stock ALL of the time?? Especially in these economic times when his suppliers are on tight belts as well.

I have a couple of items on b/o now with him and because I actually watch my own inventory levels and know enough to order BEFORE I run out, I am fine waiting for them to come in.

As for screw eyes and having hissy fits about them, how about you get in your car and go to your local hardware store or to HD and buy a box or 2.:faintthud:
 
We sell art supplies & I can tell you that the back order rate on our back to school orders Has doubled since just last year.

There was a thread on moulding maufactures being out of stock.
Now a frame supply vendor.
This should be a wake up call. I have been through three of these down turns.. I know when it is slow you don't let you inventory go to thin your supplier may be out of stock. His bad yes. Because he let it gettwo low and maybe his supplier has cut back & it is taking him longer to get it to him. How short sited. Your bad yes. because you let your inventory go to low before reordering it.

My rule of thumb is during a slow down.
WHEN YOU HEAR IN THE NEWS MANUFACTURES ARE REDUCING INVENTORY
My inventory goes UP to a supply for at least three to four week supply. When it hits these levels I order at least one weeks worth of supplies.

When things are busy & and economy is good I pare that down to only two to three weeks worth of supplies.

If you do this you will should never have to start a thread about how a supplier lost you a sale or caused you grief.

There are times & certain products you can do a Just in time inventory.
Sorry This is not the time & I don't see it happening for at least 5-10 years in the future. Right now Just in time inventory will open you up to losing orders and missing deadlines.

This and some of the others just seem so like a glass half empty thread.
Change the way you do your ordering wake up....

Now as far as backorders go. It is up to the buyer to state the terms for back orders. Been that way for ever. That is unless the company has a no back order policy which some do. (all items out of stock cancelled . please reorder)
1. You accept back orders and pay freight
2 You do accept back orders as long as it is freight paid
3 Cancel all back orders
4 Notify (your phone number)before shipping if any back orders.

I Peter Up set about his out of stocks I am sure he is. The last thing a supplier wants to do is back order anything or be out of stock.. He knows that it hurt relations when it happens which may mean sales. Which is what they are there for.. I can asure you if They could get it in stock any faster they would try. Just like you would like to do when you don't have a mat board or piece of moulding.
I sure UMS has filled more orders that have made customers happy then you will ever know.
Has UMS been out of stock when I have ordered? You bet, I am not going to P_ss down his throat because of it.

Now everyone just ignore this.
It is all bad advise....and contrary to what the experts will tell you to do.
I am now working on my third recession And 4th decade in business so you see I really do not Know what I am talking about.

I am not going to defend any of this. I told you to ignore it.
Don't change you are doing great.
 
I don't think I will even read my last post.
I really hope it was insightful and helpful.
If not I would like to report someone hacked my computer & stole my password & that was really not my post...


PS
I know shayla will she reads everything....I think she was a speed reader in here first life...
 
GUMBY said:
...I have been through three of these down turns..

My rule of thumb is during a slow down.
WHEN YOU HEAR IN THE NEWS MANUFACTURES ARE REDUCING INVENTORY
My inventory goes UP to a supply for at least three to four week supply. When it hits these levels I order at least one weeks worth of supplies...
Click to expand...

The issue is that suppliers try to cut inventory when the economy is slow, but the only inventory that ends up being cut is the fast movers.

So I have a minimum stock level for my basic items - such as various tapes, fasteners, glue, wire, blades, etc. When I get down to the minimum I order I call the order in and verify they have the item.

I have a primary supplier and I also have a backup supplier that I occasionally purchase from, so I can always have a source.

Seasonality also plays a factor - For the Christmas rush I make sure I have more. For the basic items, I can blame the supplier if I'm out, but the real blame should fall on me.
 
I don't really think this thread is about suppliers being out of stock but more about suppliers telling you things are in stock and then shipping as things come in to them so that we are paying 2 or 3 times the shipping fees. Like I said before when it is the shippers fault they should pay for the additional shipping.

Inventory problems happen to everyone, just be honest about them.
After all someone supplies the supplier the same way they supply us. We all have to watch the inventory levels in these times and also look for back-up suppliers.
 
Th one item that always makes me nervous is Infinity Hangers. I love them, but I'm always worried that they're going to be discontinued. I just received 1K of them, but the screws were B.O.- still waiting for those. I think when the stock is back up I'll order an extra 1K to keep me calm for a while. Did I mention I love those things? Haven't used screw eyes in years.
:kaffeetrinker_2: Rick
 
Like I said in my last post. I've had issues with United Mfrs. being out of stock. I've spoken directly to Peter about my issues and he has apologised and suggested that when the item comes in that I increase my order and reorder sooner then usual to prevent this problem. &nbsp:

With the exception of special order mouldings, there is nothing in my supply inventory, that when I'm out of, can be blamed on any supplier. I run my business, not them. It's my responsibility to make sure I have what I need in stock. That said, if any supplier isn't able to meet my needs as a primary or secondary vendor, then it's time to move on and find someone else.
 
Supplier Nirvana. My framing supplier comes in every two weeks and checks my supply levels. Fills out a reorder slip, I sign off and they restock the bins. Vendor managed inventory. Nirvana 2... The supplies I have in my shop belong to the supplier. Once a week I send a report to the supplier letting them know what I pulled an I get invoiced. When my consigned inventory level hits the reorder point, the supplier automatically send a replacement order... consigned inventory. One final comment.... It is hard to sell from an empty wagon.
 
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