Black Kraft Paper ...Inconsistentcy?

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Dave

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Joined
Jun 11, 2004
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Loc
Edwardsburg, MI
I prefer black kraft paper for my everyday dust covers and had been buying it from a local distributor. Every time I'd get a new roll it would somehow be different that the last one I had received ...not necessarily better or worse, but different.

I just opened my first roll from Larson Juhl and it is quite different than what I was using. It's seems heavier and more fibrous. I kind of like it ...has more of an "old world" feel to it, but it does leave your hands dirty.

My question:

Any Grumblers using LJ black kraft for a period of time ...is it as inconsistent as other suppliers or should I expect the same product if I order from them again?
 
I quit using it some time ago for just these reasons. I now use Lineco backing paper on everything except poster specials (they get brown kraft). The Lineco paper is more expensive, but so much better looking. I adjusted my fitting prices when I converted to this product to retain same margin.
 
Dave said:
I prefer black kraft paper for my everyday dust covers and had been buying it from a local distributor. Every time I'd get a new roll it would somehow be different that the last one I had received ...not necessarily better or worse, but different.

I just opened my first roll from Larson Juhl and it is quite different than what I was using. It's seems heavier and more fibrous. I kind of like it ...has more of an "old world" feel to it, but it does leave your hands dirty.

My question:

Any Grumblers using LJ black kraft for a period of time ...is it as inconsistent as other suppliers or should I expect the same product if I order from them again?
Click to expand...

I just noticed that today after I got black fingerprints all over our large yellow le cirque frame, but I rarely frame. I asked those who do frame here about it and was told that it has been that way for a long time, it's not new. They said that it's worse in the summer, not as noticible in the winter, and employees who have sweatier hands have more of a problem with it. Oy, do my hand schvitz! Dey could have sprinklers!
 
Actually, the LJ black varies too!

My last two rolls have been the heavier "more fibrous" stuff you are refering to and I like it, but the two rolls before them were quite different and different from each other.

Maybe they've settled on a supplier and it will stay the same for a while. I asked one of the reps and he thought they "went out for bid" when the supply was low. Makes sense. Black kraft must be available from a few places and in bulk why not look for a competitive price.

I have been considering going to the Lineco backing as a default, but I do like the look of the black paper so much more.
 
I agree with you, Cliff. The black looks richer to me too. I have the Lineco and use it or Cambric cloth on the jobs with a high degree of preservation framing. The Lineco seems too thin to me and punctures easily even if you fill the frame package.
 
I have been using the black paper for a lot of years and it has always been inconsistent with any of the suppliers I have bought it from.

I have been using the LJ paper and it is about as good as it gets.

And yes, it makes my hands black.

One side is dirtier than the other. If you put the darker side to the inside of the frame you get less on your hands.
 
I ran out of Kraft black and have decided to only use Lineco's. Contrary to what has been written, my Lineco is much heavier than the Kraft black - looks nicer because it doesn't sag after a period of time like the Kraft black does. The only downfall is the price.
 
We have always used LJ stock and have never been disapointed. Will stay with them; they stand behind what they sell.

Jack Cee
 
I had one roll of black that was thinner than the Lineco, but most of the time (and the LJ black I using now definitely!) the black is heavier.
 
On your hands = on your customers' hands, clothes and walls.

We passed on this "classy touch" and went for Lineco's paper. If I were going to go back to 'regular' paper, I would use some sort of wrapping paper on a roll...
 
Sherry Lee said:
I ran out of Kraft black and have decided to only use Lineco's. Contrary to what has been written, my Lineco is much heavier than the Kraft black - looks nicer because it doesn't sag after a period of time like the Kraft black does. The only downfall is the price.
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I agree ... Lineco is heavier and more robust than any black kraft I have ever bought.
 
I stopped using LJ's black because it was getting flimsier and flimsier. Found some from another distributor that is the weight it used to be from LJ and have been using it for several months now. Haven't noticed the black rubbing off....yet. But, I have gone back to the Linco paper for most of my framing now, and as was said earlier, adjusted my charges accordingly. Aside from being acid-free, it just looks cleaner and I like the weight of it. I haven't noticed a variation in the weight of the Lineco yet
 
Jerry Ervin said:
I guess the Lineco is inconsistent also because the black craft from LJ is much heavier than the Lineco I have used.

The cost of the Lineco product makes it a item used on 'high end' only.
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Nope ... Lineco Backing Paper is always consistent ... at least in all the rolls I have ever bought. I guess you have some particularly gnarly kraft paper!!!

Irrespective of how "heavy" the kraft happens to be, I find that Lineco displays greater tensile strength than Kraft.
 
The Lineco paper used to be available in 2 different weights...that may explain the differences. I don't know if it is still offered in 2 weights.
 
Black is still my preference especially with my black and silver foil labels. LJ black kraft rubbed onto my hands and was not quite the quality I wanted. I am now on my third roll of black backing (not kraft) paper from Framing Supplies which comes in 24", 30", 36", and 48" rolls of 1000 feet. I use the 36" width which runs a little over $50 before shipping, and each roll has been consistent in quality--paper has a bit of sheen giving it a polished appearance.

framingsupplies.com
1-800-334-9060
 
Sister said:
Black is still my preference especially with my black and silver foil labels. LJ black kraft rubbed onto my hands and was not quite the quality I wanted. I am now on my third roll of black backing (not kraft) paper from Framing Supplies which comes in 24", 30", 36", and 48" rolls of 1000 feet. I use the 36" width which runs a little over $50 before shipping, and each roll has been consistent in quality--paper has a bit of sheen giving it a polished appearance.

framingsupplies.com
1-800-334-9060
Click to expand...

That sounds great but, ummm, checking out their website it seems as though they are an entity who gets distributor pricing and who sells to the general public through a store and a website at wholesale prices and publishes the wholesale prices openly on the web. That's fantastic. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm not wrong, why on earth would you patronize them?
 
I switched to Lineco this past year and love it. It just feels and looks neat and professional to me, and its the first time I have had great consistency for backing paper. More expensive but worth it, just add it in like anything else. The TV CC labels look nice on it too!
 
. Is inconsistent kraft paper a problem? If it covers the back and isn't super poor quality, what does it matter that it's slightly different than the last one?

I used to think my super duper expensive backings would really drag the customers in. I'm wiser now and switched over to black about 5 rolls ago. I really haven't noticed much of difference between the 5 rolls.
 
We have had a lot of problems with our black paper from both Larson and other suppliers. I finally found some very good quality from U-line shipping supplies. It also has a little sheen on one side. We were having a difficult time cutting an edge on the paper backs with the lesser quality papers. The U-line brand is great and only sell to businesses.
 
I have seen with black paper if the picture ever gets wet from a flood in the person's house the paper will bleed PINK into their picture. eeeek. I suppose thier homeowners insurance would cover a new print, but what if there is no other print? then they're scaaaa-haa-rewwwwd!
 
How are people adhering their backing papers? Are you using glue, ATG, or other?

What is the best adhesive to use for longevity, stability, and the ability to get it off again when you find that stinkin tiny fish that you somehow missed!
 
I use Frank's Fabric Glue and roll it on. Afterwards I run an Oreck cordless hand iron around the edges. I usually sand the overhang off and run a black marker around the edge. Takes a little longer but gives a very finished look.

The nice thing about using Frank's glue is that since it is heat activated I can put the dust cover down and still pick it up and move it if I have to before setting it with the iron. Comes in handy when doing large pieces by yourself. When I used ATG if it touched the ATG and it wasn't lined up perfectly I was sunk and had to start over.


Even after heat setting it if I need to remove it I can apply heat and usually pull the dustcover back up and often even reuse it! No yuk on the frame like ATG leaves too.

I use very little ATG for anything and like I said in another post ...except for a very few applications ...ATG is evil. Try taking apart mats to replace a top mat that was adhered with ATG!

Just my experience.
 
Dave...

And what do you use to adhere your layered mats?

And how do you roll Frank's Fabric glue onto the back of the moulding without it dribbling into the frame - or the outsides of the frame? Sounds tricky!!
 
If you use a sponge roller it rolls on easy and evenly. Use one edge of the roller. Resist applying the glue to the frame itself. That can get messy and uses far more glue than you need. If you get sloppy and get some on the edge of the frame a damp cloth wipes it right off even if it has dried.

I use Frank's adhesive to adhere layered mats. Just a couple small drops along the edges and in the corners right from the squeeze bottle. If I need to take it apart for any reason it'll just ...pop...pop...pop apart without any damage to the mats without even applying heat.

A gallon of Frank's glue goes a long way too. Relatively cheap compared to ATG and the reversibility makes it my first choice always.
 
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