Black and white photo

pvn100

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Posts
4
Loc
walnutport, pa
Hello...I bought a autographed 8x10 of Tim Mcgraw and Faith Hill for my girlfriend...It's authentic so i want to frame it. I'm just not sure what color frame to use.

The pic is black and white, autographed with a blue sharpie marker.

I was thinking a blue matte in the frame, to match the marker...but I'm not sure what color/type frame to get. I usually buy the light colored wood frames...i just dont know if that is best for a black and white.

I just need a simple kmart type frame...any ideas?

Thanks!

pete
 
Given the authenticity of the signatures, why not
store it in a good quality book and frame a
reproduction of it, thus, maintaining the value
of the original?

Hugh
 
Gee Pete, I know police officers aren't paid adequately for putting their lives out there every day, but why not do a little better for your girlfriend than a "kmart" type frame? Thin black profile, white mat looks good with B&W pictures and shouldn't be very expensive. Nice gift. Maybe you'll get lucky!
 
I would suggest bringing it to professional to get it done properly, because of the potential value.

The "KMart Type Frames" most likely have paper mats that can cause acid burn over time, and are likely bundled with clear glass(or plastic) that doesn't protect the photo from U/V and fading. :eek:

It might look great with a double mat, including a neutral color and a small reveal showing the accent color used for the signature. If the shop has a computerized mat cutter, there are a lot of possibilities to include a graphic or fancy opening. It's best to lay it all out on the design counter and experiment, to see what looks best - and fits your style.

If you'd like a list of recommended shops, email and i'll gladly research this for you from ppfa.com and framerselect.com

Mike
 
Hi Pete, welcome to the grumble. Hugh has a point. Allow me to elaborate a bit.
The B&W photo is probably what is known as an RC photo and the sharpie, though it says that it is a "permanent" marker is far from it. Both of these are light sensitive and the best way to preserve the image and the signature is to keep them away from light as much as possible, hence the suggestion to make a copy and archive the original.
Now, if you're set on framing it you would do real well to take it to a reputable framer so they can provide the materials and expertise to help preserve the photo as best possible while it is in the frame. The use of archival matting, UV filtering glazing, proper mounting techniques, and expert opinion on design aspects of the frame are all available first hand from a reputable framer.
If you choose to use an inexpensive frame that is your choice, but you should really explore the importance of what goes into the frame.

To answer the basic question about design: I am inclined to use the design elements and colors presented in the image area and stick fairly closely to the proportional amount each of those elements are present. Hence: Black and white with possibly a little bit of blue. Then again asking for design advise over the INTERNET is somewhat akin to asking the price of a frame over the phone. The person you are asking the advise from does not have the object in hand so they cannot give you very precise feedback.
 
Hmmmm...very interesting in deed. I'll keep what was posted in mind. The picture itself was expensive, that's why I am little hard pressed to go have it professionally framed. I still do want a nice frame though and maybe Kmart isn't the best way to go. I'll do some research here.

Thank you all very much!

pete
 
Hey Pete. Welcome to the Grumble. We hardly ever have potential customers chiming in here; it makes a nice change.

As you've probably noticed from the responses you've gotten, framers absolutely love to educate the public. And it costs nothing to take your photo to a frame shop and discuss options.

Most shops will accomodate an a la carte approach. You could have the photo mounted and matted using conservation quality materials sized to fit a ready-made frame. An 11 x 14 piece of UV glass would not be terribly expensive. Installing the package in the frame yourself would save you a few more dollars although the fit charge on a piece that size won't be very high.

I have no idea who Tim McGraw and Faith Hill are (I don't get out much) but I DO know where Walnutport is.

Kit
 
Tim Mcgraw and Faith Hill are country music stars who happen to married to one another. It's a really nice photo of the two, which I bought off Ebay. It's a belated Valentine's gift. She's going to LOVE it!

You have got to be kidding about Walnutport though...you don't REALLY know where it is, do you?

p
 
The picture itself was expensive, that's why I am little hard pressed to go have it professionally framed.
:eek:

Sorry, Pete, I understand what you mean.

But a professional framer will look at that and read, "It's valuable, so I really don't want to protect it."

I am not of the "frame a copy and store the original" school-of-thought, unless we're talking about the Magna Carta. I think you bought it so it could be displayed and enjoyed.

Insist on:

</font>
  • UV filtering (i.e. Conservation) glass to help prevent fading, especially of the signatures.</font>
  • Separation between the photo and the glass, preferably with a good quality mat.</font>
  • Reversible mounting - no glue, no bending, folding, spindling or mutilating.</font>
Then hang it where the lighting is subdued and avoid extremes of temperature and humidity.
 
Originally posted by pvn100:
Hmmmm...very interesting in deed. I'll keep what was posted in mind. The picture itself was expensive, that's why I am little hard pressed to go have it professionally framed. I still do want a nice frame though and maybe Kmart isn't the best way to go. I'll do some research here.

Thank you all very much!

pete
Pete,

This post of yours is a perfect study in total contradiction! You paid alot of money for this piece of memorbilia but you don't want to spend alot to have it preserved? That just doesn't follow logically to me. That is like spending $600 for a Glock and then looking for a plastic holster to carry it in because the weapon cost a bundle!

C'mon guy, why make the framer take the blow for your shortness of planning? If you want really sound advice and want to show your girl how much you care about her, for gosh sakes don't throw it into a cheap frame and expect her to swoon!

You have come to the right place to find out how to properly handle a memento like this so don't blow the deal by NOT taking the advice given to you in good faith. Heck, as Kit said, we hardly ever get a consumer with balls enough to ask about a situation like you have so don't shoot yourself in the foot by taking the suggestions lightly. (No pun intended, Pete.)

I admire a guy who steps up and asks those who are in the position to answer questions like yours but I question how sincere you may be at following the advice given.

I hope you "bite the bullet" (there I go again) and spring for a good quality frame package with UV glass and a proper archival mounting with all the correct acid free trappings that go with it.

You follow the Framerguy's advice and I guarantee you will score more points than Mark McGuire in his heyday!! ;)

Good luck.

Framerguy
 
Hi Pete,
I am brand new to this forum, and hesitate to jump right in with my two cents, but here goes anyways. I would strongly recommend you store the photo until you can spring for a custom frame & UV glass. Most likely the photo was signed with whatever Sharpie happened to be lying around, and if it fades, there goes the value. I gave my daughter a Warner Bros. sericel that was double signed by the McKimson brothers, and the Sharpie marker faded from black to pink. I hate to think of what it might have been worth today.
As far as the frame goes, IMHO nothing suits a B&W better than the classic black frame/white mats, or silver frame with charcoal or black mats. WIDE MATS! Make it a focal point! I think it should be illegal to use an oak frame for a B&W photo, although I'll admit I've done it...collected full payment in advance though :>)
 
Originally posted by pvn100:


You have got to be kidding about Walnutport though...you don't REALLY know where it is, do you?

p
Yup. Turnpike Extension north of Allentown and there you are (more or less).

Kit

PS Does that lend credibility to the rest of what you've been reading here?
 
Pete,

Welcome to the Grumble!

I will chime in and agree with what Pat said. Stick with black and white in the framing. I am a photographer/framer and I do lots of B/W shooting (the camera kind . . .). I ALWAYS tell my customers to stay monochromatic. Otherwise, it detracts from the photograph. Also, with everything being b/w, the blue signature will show up more than if there is more of the same color to compete with.

I hope that makes sense, I'm struggling with a head cold and the brain cells are are a bit slow today . . .

Good luck, and hope your wife loves it.
 
I am dealing with many more photographers now than I ever have and I am on a quest to convert all photographers from the "refrigerator" white mats with black frames to a combination of grey mats with some kind of dark grey frame.

For example, a combination of Artique A4840 Gulf over an Artique A4814 Jetty looks so much better and is so much easier on the viewing eyes than a stark white. I always show with these mats or similar grey combinations either a Pewter or an Iron frame of appropriate size in the LJ Ferrosa line. These frames have a very cool hammered look to them and are also very good compliments to a B/W photo.

And you have the option of upselling some nice fillets to accompany these mats with the Ferrosa line of moulding. I only have one photographer that is adamant about sticking with double stark white mats and a flat profile matte black frame.

(I am still working on him, though.)

The next time you get a chance, lay out some grey combinations on a B/W photo and play around with different combinations of grey's. Try some profile of the Ferrosa line with matching fillet and see how much cleaner and easier to look at the photo becomes. Compare it with a stark white mat/black frame combination and see if the photo doesn't have a softer viewing capacity.

Framerguy

Edit:

If Pete would shake the moths out of his wallet, I could set him up with his girlfriend in such an enjoyable manner that he would thank me forever! :D Just kiddin' with ya, Pete. I know that we are expensive but there are some of us who actually give the customer a really good finished package for the money spent. Just shop around in your area and look at the quality of work done in the frameshops around you. You can judge for yourself who is doing top quality work.

BTW, I was born and raised in Rockville, PA and spent many enjoyable Saturday evenings in Nazareth watching a young dirt track rookie by the name of Mario Andretti tear up the track in his old Henry J stock car. Now, ......... question is, do you know where Rockville is located??

[ 02-19-2004, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: Framerguy ]
 
Wow...

I never thought I would get so many responses. May i just say that I am quite impressed with this message board. I really appreciate all of your responses.

I can understand confusion with why I would pay alot for a photo and then get a cheap frame. And I certainly hope I didn't insult anyone by wanting to buy a cheap frame for it. One of the main reasons is that I'm so excited to give it to her, I just cant wait any longer! I know, I know, it's a lame excuse. I bought a simple black frame with a white double mat from a local art store for now...and I think after I give it to her, then the two of us will go out and pick out a nice frame together. I personally love the frames that have that fancy glass that are glare free (sorry, thats the best way i can describe it).

I'm thrilled that everyone here is so helpful when it comes to giving ideas. I will certainly come back to this resource when it comes to my next framing adventure.

To all of you who are professional framers...good luck and thanks again!

And Rockville...hmmmm...never heard of it...but Nazareth is only about 15 miles away!

pete
 
Hello pete and welcome to the grumble. I also know where Walnutport is since it's only 10 miles from my shop in Lehighton.

Bring your photo (and your friend) into my shop and we will see what we can do for you.
 
I am dealing with many more photographers now than I ever have and I am on a quest to convert all photographers from the "refrigerator" white mats with black frames to a combination of grey mats with some kind of dark grey frame.
I am so glad to hear this. I hesitated to use the word grey in my previous post. My daughter was assigned the task of matting 5 of her B&W photos for her high school photography class. I'm thinking, lucky kid, her mom has a CMC, she's sure to get an A for this project. Well, imagine my surprise when she came home with an F! The teacher told her that you are suppose to focus on the BLACK & WHITE in a black & white photo, not the greys and one should never use a grey! Apparently this is what they are taught in college. My part-time helper, who happens to have a degree in photography is of the same mind-set. I have often found that a grey mat is far more asthetic, but I figured I should keep my mouth shut for fear of being spanked by yet another photography guru

Patricia Weekley, CPF
 
The new 12 PLY Bainbridge look very nice. I'd show that mat with AR glass or UV glass.
 
We were taught to mount our photos on white board with a border (pebble, at that :eek: )in photography school, but that was for consistency during critique.

Matting for display is a whole 'nother deal, though I still like some white rag mats - especially the 8-ply - on certain B&W papers.

Since every paper is different, it would be tough to find a single grey that's going to look good on all of them. I guess that's why they make a gazillion different greys.
 
Pat, I hope your daughter can use that experience as a lesson in 'sometimes you have to compromise, especially with people in authority' and NOT as a lesson in how to mat black and white photos.

One of my most popular pesentations for B&W's is to mat them in Crescent's Havana linen (sort of a brownish red) with fillet and frame from LJ's Java line. Artique 4964 is very nice, too.

My personal favorite is black fillet-silver frame-black frame and no mats at all.

I understand the reasoning behind using white mats for consistancy in a show or gallery presentation but feel that it is rarely the best choice for exhibiting an individual photo.

Kit
 
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