BISCUIT JOINING

Ed Bax

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
2
Loc
Troy, MI
I'm looking for advise on biscuit joining for
shrug.gif
frames.
Is anyone using a biscuit joiner?
 
Hi Ed,

Do a search on this forum and the tips forum. There have been a number of discussions (though the number might be 1 or 2) about biscuit joining.

If that doesn't help, I'll tell you what little I know when I get home on Saturday.
 
Ed, We have a handheld biscuit tools and a stationary tool by delta we use these when making
very large frames or wide moulding. they produce
very strong joints. Once one is practiced in using the tools they are fairly simple and quick to use. We clamp the frames using merle ajustable band clamps after gluing all four corners at once usually a 2 person job on a large frame. there was a very good article on biscuit joinery in Fine Woodworking Magazine.
I belive they have a searchable database on line.
 
Ed,

Sears has an excellent "Detail Biscuit joiner" part# 17550, that sells for about $70. The R1 5/8", R2 3/4", and R3 1" biscuit work very well with a typical framing job. The biscuits can be very useful for joining legs that have a slight twist as well as frames that are too wide for an under-pinner.

Pat
kaffeetrinker_2.gif
 
For those that have serious biscuit joining experience, I think that Ed Bax would appreciate you jumping into this question....

Ed showed me the profile he's attempting to join during last week's TC Moulding Open House in Detroit. I've posted it below so that you'll see the problem this profile presents.....

ed_bax_moulding.jpg


And YES....that's MDF, contributing to the problem..............It's not within my area of expertise....so hopefully we'll find someone with the knowledge to help Ed out!

John
 
Ed,

Be sure to butt the biscuit dough tight against each other before baking. That should join them pretty good. (I got this handy tip from that Framerguy guy.)

As far as the MDF frame that you plan to use to frame the biscuits, you may be better off using glue and underpinning that stuff together.

(Another handy tip from the man called "Framerguy".)

(Who IS that bald headed masked man anyway??)
shrug.gif


Omar

P.S. Welcome to the Grumble, Ed!!
 
It reminds me of cove moulding that they used to use around the ceilings of old homes!!

Not a good profile to try to join for a tight cornered picture frame by any means!

(I'll speak to Omar about his "suggestions". He just got back from assignment and is a bit edgy right now.)

Framerguy
 
Ed, that moulding is a nightmare.

I use a biscuit joiner with a good vice, as I imagine others do. That profile won't fit in a conventional vice and I don't imagine it would strap well, either.

Perhaps it could be joined with an underpinner/v-nailer with a little creativity, but that wasn't your question.
 
In this part of the framing world the moulding is called 'cheater' moulding. It looks like picture frame moulding, but definitely is not picture frame moulding before it is joined. I had a couple of customers using it, but they stained and finished the moulding after the corners were joined. They did not use an underpinner but nail guns to join the corners with lots of glue and filler. They had the raw moulding milled by small lumber mills that have lots of oddball lengths and grades of leftover lumber.

They used it to make framed art and blow the art out at bottom feeder prices. The moulding can be made from an almost flat rectangular piece of stock. If you draw the rectangular shape of the original piece and also draw the rectangular shape IF there had been a proper rabbet the 'cheater' moulding can use 50% less wood to make it.

And someone mentioned that this is the common way Mexican readymades are made and in Mexico they also stain and finish the frames after the corners are joined and holes and gaps can be filled with filler before they are painted.

This is the type of moulding no one should hang on a wall or show to a customer. You can buy cheaper full rabbet Korean plastic moulding with better finishes and cheaper than this fake MDF moulding.

Alan
 
It is not cheater mldg. Pt is just made to use less wood (or other) material during manufacture, and hence cheaper mldg.


From the front, it gets youthe volume of size, w/o the material cost involved with size.

It's meant for more of the OEM market.

Commonly joined with a 2 or 3 inch corrigated staples perpendicular to the mitre.

If this is a one-off just vise it, glue. Shoot a coupla nails and putty 'em.

If this is a (large) project there are commercial model corru-staple nailer avail.

Or you can get a Hand-held pnumatic gun. But then you have to have an upside down vise.

Biscuit will work, but the cove angle makes it more diff's than vise, glue, nail.
 
I have used a biscuit joiner since I started framing. Bought the small one from Sears and still get the smallest biscuits from them. I glue the corners in a framing vise and after the glue has set, I set the joined for a large cut. Then the smallest biscuit will drop in the slot that I have filled with glue. No trimming required. Anything to small to use a biscuit joiner on, I use a pnuematic brad nailer to join after setting the glue. I have avoided needing to buy a joiner by using brads or biscuits.

Wally
 
I don't think that using biscuits would be a good idea at all. MDF doesn't have the fibrous strength to accommodate the use of biscuits, particularly in the thin profile that is pictured on John's post.

MDF has a tendency to swell badly from moisture (as in most glues) and the biscuits will also swell making a visible hump in the miter on a moulding of that thickness.

I would opt for a glued and underpinned joint with maybe an extra brad in the top of the miter if the joint doesn't stay tight enough. Fill the brad hole with colored filler and you are good to go. (If there IS a "good to go" with MDF)

MDF is junk and shouldn't be used in any form in a frame shop. Just check out the acid content in most MDF to see what I mean. Wood is high in acid but the addition of binders and adhesives make MDF a killer for mounting board or moulding that comes close to any artwork or canvas. The Aussies use alot of MDF for mounting and I could never understand why they insist on using it when there are so many other alternatives that aren't nearly as harmful to the posters or artwork.

Framerguy
 
I just thought of something.

Maybe he is thinking biscuit because he can't think of a way to clamp it in the vise.

Use a basic stem or cap mldg corner sample in-front of the profile and you can join it in a vise.

As long as it is as tall as the rabbet height.

Something like 682 or Uni N1510, or Studio 27701.

This is the old school trick that has been used to join these puppies back to the days when it was thought of a as a new and hip, cutting edge profile.
 
Well I've been busy sifting through all the great responses to my question on biscuit joining. I want to thank everyone for their responses and give a special thanks to John Ranes for posting the photo of the moulding profile. A picture is worth a 1000 words. I'll continue with my current method of joining taking the advice not to bisciit join the MDF.
 
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