big trouble in little seattle/san diego

trofeo

True Grumbler
Joined
May 25, 2005
Posts
71
Loc
Seattle, WA
I hate to come back grumbling (after being without an internet connection for months), with a huge dilema asking for advice.. BUT
I have a BIG problem... Maybe some of you who have been in biz longer than me will have a solution or know by experience what action I can take.
Here is the story:
I was put in touch with a client/collector more than a year and a half ago. Very well off, loves to spend it all on stuff to make his house look great, likes to impress people,etc.. (designed his WHOLE house, seriously, based to a "t" on a ralph lauren ad in a magazine..) seriously.. so, for framing this is good. He had 15 things to frame, all gigantic, and I was able to go to his home with samples and he wanted like 10 closed corners. NICE!!! SO, I'm pretty psyched, call him up with a huge quote, and he chokes and says he wants to do them a few at a time to soften the blow. Fine! A steady stream of good orders is fine by me!!

So, we do a few orders over the next 1-1/2 years, he's a good, yet needy, client. On the last trip to his house, he says he wants to go ahead on the frame for this giant double, multi angled painting, and a few others. He had just paid me for the balance on another project, so I didn't insist on a deposit..(mistake #1). The other 5 pieces weren't closed corners, so when they were done first, I delievred them (for free), and gave him the status on the other closed corner frame. He was with an "important client" so he asked if he could call me and give me his credit card over the phone. (mistake #2), but He did, and I breathed again..
BUT he left out his expiration date. i left him a message, tried to run the card, nothing. Since JUNE i have been calling/emailing him, trying to just get the darn expiration date, and to tell him that his GIANT (90x45) closed corner frame had finally arrived. I have tried a number of different guesses at the ex.date, and even tried another credit card I had "on file" for him.. both didn't work)..

SO, fast forward to two days ago.. The friend that put me in touch with him stops by for a chat, and asks me if the client paid me yet.. When he hears he hasn't paid, he proceeds to tell me that I should "do whatever I can to get my money", because the guy has MOVED TO SAN DIEGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Burning a lot of other people in the process.
SO... I know I should've gotten a deposit, and deserve 1000 lashings for that one.. But, we had such a good thing going, and he seemed so happy with the service..etc. One big mistake I made was to not require that I take his art, b/c now I have no collateral, or anything to sell to recoup my money. It was just so big, and the frame was going to take so long, he didn't want his $20,000 painting in my shop for a month, and neither did I really...
So, the questions are:
Are there any recourses I can take that are A) legal, B) professional and C) will get me paid.? He owes me $4500, and I want this giant a$$ crate out of my tiny shop! I have been tripping over it for months now.
My boyfriend says I should make a painting (I'm an artist too..) and put it in the giant frame and sell it to recoup my money.. but I am not about to do that until the last option has been exhausted, so please.. if you have any advice, know any lawyers, etc, or if you have a shop in San Diego and I can give you his name so you can contact me if he comes in to get something framed, that would be really really cool!!!!!!!! i almost could gaurantee that he will learn where all the "high end" decor stores are, and probably start spending tons of loot, so he'll turn up somehow down there..
I have a cell number for him, and two expired/invalid credit cards #'s, an old address and two old company names he worked under. that's about it..
Any help/advice would be great..
many thanks!
sara
 
Sara, do the two words "Collection" & "Agency" come to mind?

Otherwise, paint the picture, and get that ****** out of your shop before you have to get married.

Seriously, you have much info for an agency to do a skip trace on...
 
The only thing I can think of that you didn't mention is that I wonder if you contacted the card issuer. Maybe they could give you some advice. Oh another thing....collection agency. They are pretty good at tracking people down.

I feel for you. Good luck!
 
Originally posted by trofeo:

I have tried a number of different guesses at the ex.date,
sara
Don't know if this is leagl or how many attempts you get before red flags and sirens go off but assuming the card isn't expired start with .... 08/06 09/06 10/06 keep going only 12 months in a year. I don't know about his cards but seems like mine renew every three years. So that would only take 36 tries even if his card was brand new.
 
You said you had the business that he worked for? Well why not give them a call and say he is a friend and wondering if there is any forwarding info that has been left. Hey 411 can be a friend. This is a hard one, but the Collection Agency is the best one...keep track of all the info and calls you have made trying to contact him, in any case this info helps you.

PL
 
Don't be chasing after him yourself. He plainly is avoiding you, and if you actually do get ahold of him and weep and whine, he won't care. Save this step altogether. He's a deadbeat.
Go to a collection agency. You will have to pay them a percentage of what you lost. Even two-thirds of $4000 is better than $0.
I watched a lot of LA Law, so my legal opinion is that you won't be able to get anything for the closed corner frame/albatross you have in the shop. You have no deposit, no painting, no paperwork. He could reasonably claim that he didn't order it and has no idea why you would think that he had (unless you have witnesses), assuming you can get him in a court of law in the first place.
Customers. What a shame we have to put up with them in order to make a living...
 
I hate to be discouraging, but collection agencies typically keep half of what is recovered and, these days especially, they fail to collect any thing at all. Other than harassing people, they really have no power to collect and most folks know it.

If this guy has stiffed you and others, chances are he already has a new card with a new number from another bank.
 
thanks everyone.. i thikn the collection agency is a good idea. i tried to call mastercard to check the ex. date, and they seemed ready to charge the card on their end without giving me any valuable.secure info about him, but then the card number i tried was invalid!!! jerk. big jerk.. so, another friend of mine said that the NASE (national assc. for the self emplyd) might be able to help me, b/c they give free leagal advice to members, which i am.. that could be good too. i will also see if the post office has a forwarding business address or residencal address for him.
i know if i finally get him on the phone and whine and moan about it he wont care.. he obiously hasn't cared since june! what a complete jerk.
i really appreciate all the advice..
anyone know any frames shops in san diego?? i may need to pass along this info to them!

thank you thank you thank you...
have a great day everyone!
 
update... th epost office can't give out forwarding addresses, for privacy reasons... gotta protect those deadbeats too!
i do have photographs of some of the pieces he still owes me for, so that may be some proof we were working together. as for proof that he ordered the closed corner frame, wouldnt the order itself be proof if the frame is totally custom? it's shaped like a 't', wider at the top, so it won't fit on anything else in the whole world.. (an assumption, but i'd say it's almost a gaurantee there's no other painting out there to these dimensions..)
at this point, is it childish of me to want justice? th eyellow pages people ripped me off awhile back and i fought them until they gave in and gave me my deposit back, which everyone said would never happen. i can be determined, but i would hate to waste energy on this if it's a dead end street. i just can't fathom doing that to anyone, and can't imagine him getting away with it. i can't let that happen!
i'll keep you posted.. and thanks again!
s
 
Originally posted by Baer Charlton:
Otherwise, paint the picture, and get that ****** out of your shop before you have to get married.
Honestly Sara, If you weren't my little sister from my estranged mother I never had, I'd remind you that you're never to big or too old to be turned over someones knee and spanked.

PAINT THE **** PICTURE, the frame will fit it, . . . may I say it? . . . to a "T" :D

Moving on now. You have a HUGE wedding to be looking into...
 
The post office will send you the forwarding address if you send a piece of mail with "Address Correction Requested" on it. I don't know if this applies only to bulk mail or not. I think you pay the cost of a first class stamp to get the correction. If you call the post office and ask about getting address corrections for your mailing list, you'll probably get the full scoop on it.
 
I once had a weird guy order 2 CCs and leave 2 "very valuable" pieces of art with me and do a David Copperfield trick on me.

The letter I sent to his address came back unopened. I sent another with a request for Proof of Receipt and this was forwarded to his new address in another state which then came back to me! Then he sent his mother to pick his stuff as he couldn't because he "had to leave in a hurry"...

Maybe we should start a new thread to warn the couple of Grumblers who are in San Diego, titled: "Attention San Diego Grumblers!!".

I am sure this creep will show up there someday, and maybe they can exact revenge on this lowlife and get you something back.
 
i like the paint the *****in picture and sellthe frame appraoch, baer.. i think you're onto something there..
and, i also like the "attention all san diegoans" idea too.. this jerk needs a spanking, and i don't want him ripping anyone else off, so i need to warn them all. and if they can get his address for me and a new phone number in the process, wouldn't hurt, right?
thanks everyone!
s
 
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