Being Check out by another Framer

Create a Post
H

happycamper

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Posts
268
Loc
calgary, alberta
Grrrrrr... in here wasting my time. She had me quote on two canvases needing stretching and then framed in a floater frame.... then wanted all the details off the lifesaver compter screen.... $ for stretcher bars, frame and labour....sorry don't do that. She replied "well you do if you want the business"... Grrrrrrr. This is the first one of these in about 6 years.
 
It's probably happened before, you just didn't realize it because the previous "shoppers" weren't as blatant.

I've never "shopped" a competitor and never will because it's dishonest. Many framers do though.
 
I'm pretty sure it happened to me yesterday. This guy walks in, starts taking samples off the wall, looks on the backs and prices out a small print he brought with him. He also seems to know more than your avg customer about glazings, mattings, etc. Then he wants me to print out a quote for him. I tell him I would be glad to, but I would have to put his info into computer. He seems suprised and doesn't know how to react, and just says he'll have to come back and just walks out without saying another word.
 
I once got shopped by the sister of a local competitor and I got the order. She said she got tired of waiting 9 months to get her others done by sis. I made her swear she wouldnt tell.
Advice here. Dont put family on the back burner.
 
To make matters worse, other customers were in the store brousing and I should have been spending my time with them.... I guess if she is in my store... there is not much action where she works...
I too stop in and visit other shops when I travel and usually have a card and we have a talk about art etc. Frequently, I am in the market to buy an original (usually something small) or serigraph to remember the trip... this is different than showing up with a Phoney Framing order.
Perhaps I should check around and see where she works. I was told the shopping of competitors was part of the training of new staff at Framing and Art Centers. Staff were required to fill out a "form" on the experience in the competitors store. Hmmmmm
 
I am waiting for spring and quite tired of all the snow we are still getting. My trailer in the Rockies is 'calling me". I may just need a break... well earned I might add.
 
Doug Gemmell said:
It's probably happened before, you just didn't realize it because the previous "shoppers" weren't as blatant.

I've never "shopped" a competitor and never will because it's dishonest. Many framers do though.
Click to expand...

How is being informed about your competition being dishonest?
 
matage said:
How is being informed about your competition being dishonest?
Click to expand...

You can "be informed" about the competition without posing as someone you are not. These "shoppers" fraudulently pass themselves as a real customer, thus stealing time from the shops they visit. I welcome other framers here as long as they identify themselves and I frequently do things for them at no charge that they don't have the equipment to do themselves.

I'm sure I have been subjected to this tactic and while I don't like it, it is part of doing business. Like being shoplifted.
 
blackiris said:
Happened a few weeks ago.............Heres my thread..........:faintthud:

http://www.thegrumble.com/showthread.php?t=38109
Click to expand...

Thanks for the above link. I'm getting an increase in people coming in for quotes/estimates now (general public, not "secret shoppers"), and I haven't been handling it very effectively in terms of managing my own time. I learned a lot on the above thread about how to improve my "triage" technique! :)
 
I've seen it all. I had someone taking copious notes in my ready made room today. I was way too busy to walk over and pointedly ask if I could help with anything he was taking notes on. That usually hustles them out.
 
nikfrz said:
I once got shopped by the sister of a local competitor and I got the order. She said she got tired of waiting 9 months to get her others done by sis. I made her swear she wouldnt tell.
Advice here. Dont put family on the back burner.
Click to expand...

ROTFL!
 
happycamper said:
Grrrrrr... in here wasting my time. She had me quote on two canvases needing stretching and then framed in a floater frame.... then wanted all the details off the lifesaver compter screen.... $ for stretcher bars, frame and labour....sorry don't do that. She replied "well you do if you want the business"... Grrrrrrr. This is the first one of these in about 6 years.
Click to expand...

I'm curious, how did you find out that she was a framer?

It is disappointing when people are devious like that. How did you respond to her reply "well you do if you want the business"?
 
Grumbling Mike said:
Please take some comfort in knowing that she was not putting her energy into her own business. She was too busy wondering about yours.
Click to expand...

I don't totally agree Mike, you are supposed to shop your competition. There are better ways to go about it though, Any time I have shopped the competition I have made it short and sweet. I knew most of the shops around me and it was hard to disguise myself. I sent out a couple friends who were familiar with framing too. A couple times I got a few shops to price specific things out and when I gathered the info everybody got a copy to use however they wished. There really isn't any other way to see how you stack up without getting prices to compare. One component of pricing is to see what others are charging, you don't want to leave money on the table. I understand there are other considerations when pricing.
 
Kathy is correct, of course. Doing market research is an essential part of every biz.

I'll guess most don't get full value out of the shopping exercise

Always look for wht others do well, what they do that can improve your own operation. Price is only one facet

May I share an example I always use in my classes, whereupon almost everyone starts nodding in agreement

We shop pretty aggressively

At good competitor (and friend) was shopped and her glass prices were significantly lower than market. If memory serves me, the average was about $20, high about $30. She was about $12. In afriendly call, I mentioned that and she became defensive (as most of us do), but we went in again in about a week and she was about $18

Had she done her own shopping that $18 might have occurred maybe 1000 workorders earlier. It's not about being the cheapest or having a preset margin, but, it ought to be adjusted to market

And, shopping is simply one tool to gather that data.

A wise businessman once said "Without data, we're just a bunch of jerks with opinions"

Shop wise and respectfully, but do shop
 
I guess I'm stupid because I don't see anything here that proves this was not a genuine customer. When we bid out renovation on our cabin we needed to know specifics so we could compare apples to apples. We didn't go with the cheapest bid , the person who was least expensive and made use feel they could do the best job got our business. Anything less seemed to us as them not being held to any standard. Without that info we would have went elsewhere with our business. We were not shopping our competitor, just being informed consumers with the information to fall back on if the contractor did'nt follow through.


Tom
 
Thedra said:
I guess I'm stupid because I don't see anything here that proves this was not a genuine customer.
Click to expand...

"....then wanted all the details off the lifesaver computer screen.... $ for stretcher bars, frame and labour....."
Did you do that too when you were price shopping. And did they let you??

Wanting to look behind the counter at the POS screen - I'd say that sounds like somebody doing industrial espionage!
 
Ya as a matter of fact I did! Are they using metal or wood 2x4's, mold resistant or regular drywall (in a cabin , you know), what kind of paint and how many coats. Most contractors were using some kind of quote program on their computer and yes they did give it to me, so someone else couldn't put in lessor materials to beat their quote!!

Tom
 
Qoutes

I guess it could be considered a complement they may be worried about you? I shop the competition all the time. I have a friendly relationship with one of the other framers in town and I look at their style of framing and price. I do not take up their time except in a friendly conversation. I look a quality and design mostly just to make sure we are still the better of the competition. I look at prices on the wall for framed art I do not tie up their time with an actual print of of prices. We do quotes all the time most of the time it results in a sale, sometimes is does not. Our computer has the details the quote does not. I will give them a price at the end. I do offer to email them a virtual framing with a price e-mailed to them. When a customer is more then normally interested in the various options I will write as an Example down glass option #1 12.35 #2 13.65 so on no description of the glass or mat type only price. I do not like to give out the design colors and framing but I will if they give me their e-mail address so I can e-mail the the design. I do believe that you should know what the other guy is doing and how they are doing it. The more knowledge you have the better you will be able to serve your customers. I was just shopping a place out of town this weekend. I did not try up a single sales person my son, daughter and wife all bought a little something I got the info I wanted and it was interesting to see the quality and design and customer service difference.
 
I have about 6 other shops in my are a that I would consider to be "competition".
We all know each other by name and on site. Kinda hard to go in and shop someone who knows what you look like.

These shops are as near as a mile away and one is 50 miles up the coast. The rest are 10 to 30 miles away.

I already cut special mats for two and do art printing for another and at times sell others supplies.

It's not like we are a heavily populated area.
 
Hey framah-I used to tell people that when we did our semi-annual review that I would call colleagues an dexplained that we could send someone in surreptiously or they could participate willingly over phone. The data (not the actual stores, but the prices) was shared with the willing as a high, a low, and the mean. Most folks participated and shared

I was accused of price fixing by some framers, so as far as a public disclaimer, we no longer do it

In a small market, I might suggest that an occassional friendly conversation might be a logical conclusion

It is helpful to know the breadth of pricing, I feel
 
then there was the time I was "scoped out" by a gal that new about as much of the trade a I.....turns out her parents had been in the biz for some 20years and she, of course, 'got' to work there for most of those . was a pleasant acquaitence-----AND she never once blinked an eye at the pricing, or the time line, not asked to be allowed to do it herself, and was quite pleased with the finished product(of course!). Now THAT's MY kind of customer! :party:
 
Good point, Bob. A couple would be amenable to that.

Thanks:beer:
 
Create a Post
Back
Top