Bainbridge A/F 1/8" Foam

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Cliff Wilson

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So, I've been getting 1/8" foam from Bainbridge lately that seemed to be too thick for 1/8"
In some instances almost no difference from 3/16

So, I asked about it and sent in a 1/8 piece and a "too thick" piece from my recent box.

There was more to the communication, but the bottom line from Bainbridge was:

"Our 1/8" product can be as thin as 0.140" and as thick as 0.160".

Has anyone else noticed this "thicker foam?"

Do you have a brand recommendation that is a true 1/8"
I'd even be happy with it slightly thinner, but not thicker.

Thanks, Cliff
 
So, they are 2-100ths of an inch difference and you noticed it?:icon11:

No, I haven't noticed.
 
Cliff Wilson said:
"Our 1/8" product can be as thin as 0.140" and as thick as 0.160"
Click to expand...

Both are thicker than one eighth, one eighth is 0.125 - so they're saying their 1/8" product never is!! ??

I use NB Artcare foam board but over here it comes in millimetres, 3mm & 5mm (and is very consistent). 3mm is 0.188....". Maybe you've got stuff from both sides of the pond.
 
Cliff, I thought it was just me being to picky. I run into it with any brand. It is an issue like you say with filet installation and rabbet lining. And other things in general.

The same sheet can be 1/8" nicely on one end and 3/16" on the other! Not the best quality control.
 
Cliff Wilson said:
Actually, yes.
It makes it thicker than a fillet, and makes shadowbox sides iffy.
Click to expand...

I've never noticed any consistency in fillets. They're all over the place in thickness. I have to use a variety of methods to fill. Do you have one of those foam board rabbet tools? They're real handy if the fb is a tad too thick.

14909-0000-1-2ww-m.jpg
 
Re: shadowboxing sides- I agree it can be tricky-

Have you tried putting oversized pieces in a vacuum press? It really works. I say oversized pieces because you can round the back edge of the piece if it is skinny - so cut your pieces about an inch larger in each direction and then put them in the press. You may find it squeezes it (and it stays squeezed) to a usable thickness.
 
There is an AF 1/8" white corrugated board that I often use to fill the space with fillets.
It is a true 1/8" and is slightly thinner than the 1/8" fome core that I have been getting.
The 1/8" corrugated works with about 75% of the fillets that I have used and is just the right height.
It's good for many things but I wouldn't use it as a fabric wrap.
I can't remember the company that we get it from and I'm not at work.
It's one of our local frame suppliers, either LJ, CMI, or Valley.
 
I have had problems with the pieces seeming to be crimped at one end - almost 1/16 then gradually getting up to the proper thickness. I think they've got some wonky equipment that needs adjusting.
 
I've noticed the same thing with the 1/8" Artcare foamboard - it seems to be thicker sometimes and it's hard to tell the difference between it and the 3/16" sheet. There are times that you really just want the 1/8" and not a thicker piece.
 
I havent noticed the thickness...... but the top layer of paper on 4 pieces in 1 box was all bubbly.....
FreakinG ANNOYING! Especially when you were depending on a FULL BOX for a HUGE ORDER! ugh :fire:
 
When I am making my shadowbox sides I often glue the mat to the foam with PVA and throw in in the vac press on cold and leave it there for an extended time and it does compress the foam. Just cut off one edge to start so it is square and go from there.
 
For shadowboxes 1/8 Speedmount is perfect. Mount the matboard and leave it in long enough to compress to the size that you want, rarely more than 2 minutes in a vacuum press. Surprisingly, it does no harm to suede mats.
 
To the original post:

Yes, and AAARRGGHHH! It's so frustrating to pay for 1/8" and have
it basically be the same as the thick. A few years ago, someone told
me that the company takes thick and just runs it through a vacuum
press to make it 'thinner', but that's hard to believe. Whatever the
problem, it sabotages the purpose of using thin in the first place.
Of the two we get, Bainridge and Encore (nee Beinfang), one is 1/8"
and the other has gotten too thick. Rawr.

Will hush up and go get dressed now.
 
Physics 101

Some of the basic principles of Physics apply to the everyday things we deal with as framers. A prime example is dry mounting. If you don't weight it under glass untill all the stresses have equalized, then it may bow. The physics is that when you apply a force, material and heat to one side, the other side will want to compensate unless equal force, material and heat is applied to the other side.

Another principle applies to foam core. I have been told from a variety of sources that 1/8" foam core is really 3/16" foam core that has been compressed (I believe the technical term is 'Squished'). Forces can change the shape of objects. If we squish an object, its called a compressive force. Elastic objects bounce back to their original shape when the force is removed unless something is done to prevent it bouncing back.

For something like foam core, the elasticity is minor but it is there. Its ability to bounce back to its original 3/16" thickness will depend on whatever the manufacturer has done to 'cure' the foam core to force it to retain its 1/8" thickness.

But then again, my three semesters of Engineer Physics were so long ago that I'm not really sure what school I took them at (there were a bunch) much less remember much of it.

Of course if 1/8" foam core being compressed 3/16" is just a framer's legend, then all this is moot.
 
Larry Peterson said:
Some of the basic principles of Physics apply to the everyday things we deal with as framers. A prime example is dry mounting. If you don't weight it under glass untill all the stresses have equalized, then it may bow. The physics is that when you apply a force, material and heat to one side, the other side will want to compensate unless equal force, material and heat is applied to the other side.

Another principle applies to foam core. I have been told from a variety of sources that 1/8" foam core is really 3/16" foam core that has been compressed (I believe the technical term is 'Squished'). Forces can change the shape of objects. If we squish an object, its called a compressive force. Elastic objects bounce back to their original shape when the force is removed unless something is done to prevent it bouncing back.

For something like foam core, the elasticity is minor but it is there. Its ability to bounce back to its original 3/16" thickness will depend on whatever the manufacturer has done to 'cure' the foam core to force it to retain its 1/8" thickness.

But then again, my three semesters of Engineer Physics were so long ago that I'm not really sure what school I took them at (there were a bunch) much less remember much of it.

Of course if 1/8" foam core being compressed 3/16" is just a framer's legend, then all this is moot.
Click to expand...

I believe 1) it is compressed from the same source thickness 2) your physics explanation undoubtedly is in play, BUT 3) they DON'T even compress to 1/8. so there is no hope of getting what we're paying for.
 
Yes, I imagine the squish factor is difficult to control for all the manufacturers of expanded plastic materials. If you've ever used that foam-in-place packing material or the expanding foam insulation in a can, you can see the problem.

Rob's right - if you put a 3/16" foam board in the vacuum press at about 200 degrees long enough for the heat to penetrate the board, you can make it as thin as 1/16". But it is an imperfect process, as you never know exactly how the plastic will respond to the heat & pressure.

When thickness must be 1/8" or less, maybe it would be better to use an 8-ply matboard, but that would cost more. A similar-cost alternative would be to wet-mount two 4-ply flaw boards together in the vacuum press...if you don't count the labor time to do that.
 
framing myth

Please allow me to put to bed the myth of squishing 3/16" foamboard to 1/8" foamboard. That is not done. It may have been done in the past by various manufacturers, but 1/8" foamboard is NOT being made that way today.
 
Yes

Yes Less has - and Less does not like it.

waste a bit of time trying to find 1/8 that is not

1/8" last Less heard is .125 3/16 is .1875

and Yes there is a BIG difference

especially if you are an ant
 
You really need to go metric!

Comparing fractions to decimals ... which are totally wrong anyway ... they're saying that they don't actually DO a one-eighth of an inch thick board!!

What would those actual thicknesses BE as fraction? ... and who wants to know anyway - you couldn't plot it in to a calculator!
 
My guess is that they squish 3/16 (.1875 for you decimal buffs) to 1/8" (.125), but it immediately springs back to around .140, and may eventually get up to .160. Sorry, Robo, but it really matters not whether you use metric, fractional inch or decimal inch - all that matters is that you publish and maintain tolerances. As to what is the fraction for .140 it's pretty simple - 140/1000 (or 14/100 if you want to reduce it) - that's how we pronounce it in the shop: "one hundred forty thousandths".

As a side note, we have, for quite some time, published our specs in decimal inches. One of the biggest questions we get from people is what those numbers are, i.e. "how much is 1.750"?", or "how much is .188"?" (we are changing our upcoming new catalog...). Personally I would prefer we just change over to the metric system, but at the least prefer a decimal version of the inch system; it's easier to specify precise amounts, and measure tolerances. For instance our manufacturing tolerances are +/- .005", how are you going to measure that with any device that measures fractions? 1/256 would be reasonably close, although 3/512 would be "close enough". I've yet to see a vernier scale that can differentiate fractions that small... and even at that the resolution is twice the amount as thousandths.
 
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