Backing paper warping

Jason M

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Jan 14, 2025
Posts
8
Loc
Ocean Springs, Mississippi
Business
Ethotera Art Studio
I've been framing for a year now and this is the first time i have experienced this. After finishing a frame and applying the backing paper tight as a drum so to speak, after a day or two the paper is loose and warped. It looks like i did it while drunk and eyes closed haha. The only thing i can think is the temp. change in the shop since it's been cold. the temp in shop is usually 70 degrees and turn it off when we leave. If thats the case, i should probably just turn the heat down a lil at night. Has anyone experienced this? I hope you can tell what Im talking about by my pic. If not i can take another one
IMG_20250131_134233.webp
 
Also, its all of them. Im having to repaper 7 frames right now. what is the preferable paper for frames? I use the 50# , but i dont think thats my issue.
 
I was thinking a picture could be dropped off at the North Pole and it wouldn't kink up at the edges like that one has. I don't know.
 
Yep, temperature and humidity changes cause the paper to shrink and expand.
If you are using ATG the paper might not return to its original tautness.
I have switched from ATG to PVA glue (ATG Turbo glue) and have stopped worrying about the dust cover being drum-head taut.
ATG tape has a tendency to fail in coastal climates.
 
I don't pull the backing paper "drum" tight either.
I like to allow for what you are experiencing....expansion and contraction due to temp and humidity fluctuations.
If you make the back paper super tight in your shop, and it's transported home (in who knows what kind of weather), then into the customers home, the paper is either going to warp/expand (no problem as long as it stays sealed), or it's going to try to shrink/contract. as it adjusts to it's new environment.
If it can't contract any more because it was installed "drum" tight, then it's going to try to pull the edges inward. ATG could pull loose because of this.
As far as I understand it, as long as the edges stay sealed, it doesn't matter if the backing paper has some waviness.
 
Hi, Jason. A belated welcome, to the Grumble! :)

Please correct, if I'm mistaken, but is that braided mesh wire? If so, there's a brand called Super Softstrand,
that is much less likely to break. Mesh wire often lasts fine, but it does sometimes break, either from age,
the weight of hanging from the nail, or both. Super Softstrand is plastic-coated, easily used, and more reliable.
 
Hi, Jason. A belated welcome, to the Grumble! :)

Please correct, if I'm mistaken, but is that braided mesh wire? If so, there's a brand called Super Softstrand,
that is much less likely to break. Mesh wire often lasts fine, but it does sometimes break, either from age,
the weight of hanging from the nail, or both. Super Softstrand is plastic-coated, easily used, and more reliable.
Thank you. This is my first post😎
It is braided mesh wire and I have been wondering if it could succumb to those circumstances. I've just been waiting for my first spool to end haha. I will look into the softstrand for an upgrade to that.
 
Yep, temperature and humidity changes cause the paper to shrink and expand.
If you are using ATG the paper might not return to its original tautness.
I have switched from ATG to PVA glue (ATG Turbo glue) and have stopped worrying about the dust cover being drum-head taut.
ATG tape has a tendency to fail in coastal climates.
I have now learned to use PVA in conjunction with atg and certain instances like double mating so that they don't slip or fall out of alignment with each other in the distant future because of atg failure. But I'm not sure how to apply that efficiently with the backing paper as far as PVA glue goes. Elaborate more on how to use PVA glue on backing paper because I am most interested in learning anything that makes my process more efficient and better quality. Thank you so much for all these great perspectives
 
Hi Jason,

Welcome to the G!

You mention it was drum tight, but I do see creases in the paper cover that were not due to humidity changes. More like it didn't go on perfectly and you made it tight by folding it a little bit. I see that both on left and right side, about the same height.

I still use ATG to put the dustcover on. My shop cannot be called climate controlled at all. Like Niko, I don't paper too tightly, but I do paper it straight. If you have troubles with that (and I believe we all have experienced it when we just started :) ) you might consider glue as you can reposition it when it is not lined up correctly. ATG makes that a little harder

I use the equivalent of Lineco paper, which I believe is 40# paper
 
I use 2 oz. plastic liquid medicine dispensers I buy from my vet’s office. (These need to be replaced very so often because of wear on the tip will allow too much glue to come out.) It puts out a thin bead, ~1/-16”, that I run about 1/4" from the outside of the frame. It takes a little practice.
The paper can be applied directly to that after the glue has set for a minute or so, or the bead can be smoothed out with your thumb. It's a matter of personal preference.
The paper is then burnished to the back using a smooth tool. A folding (burnishing) bone works well as does the edge of the body of the trimming knives I have.

We used to mist the paper so it would expand in advance of attaching, then dry and be drum tight. That kind of backfired on us in this climate because the paper can exert enough force to open up the face of the frame. Note that when I started, many people didn't have central HVAC, and window unit ACs were common. Often only select rooms would have AC units, so the art was exposed to whatever was going on with the environment at any give point in time during the warmer months.

A pint bottle of ATG Turbo glue costs about the same as a couple rolls of ATG tape, and will do about the equivalent of 12 rolls of tape. We used Elmer's white glue for years. The Turbo glue is essentially the same, it just sets up and dries much faster.
 
From my experiments with gluing paper backs, it's seemed that a "tackier" glue works better than a more viscous glue.
Do those of you who use this method find that to be the case?

Is the key to success a matter of waiting for the glue to set "just right" so it's still going to stick well, not be slippery, or so wet that the paper cockles where it's touching the glue.
Those were the issues I had which turned me off of glue. Too finicky. And takes more time.

The best result I had was a test with Yes! paste. It was able to take the paper immediately, hold it in place without slipping, and didn't cockle the paper as it dried.
But the application process was slow, and messy.

I thought I could improve the process by packing a gluing syringe with the paste for quicker and more controlled application.
I hadn't tried that yet.
And again, takes more time to prepare if having to refill the syringe repeatedly.
Being a thick paste, I think a regular glue bottle won't work very well

So for me, as far as I know, I havn't had any failures using ATG.
The main reason I would change now is to save some money.
 
Hi Jason,

Welcome to the G!

You mention it was drum tight, but I do see creases in the paper cover that were not due to humidity changes. More like it didn't go on perfectly and you made it tight by folding it a little bit. I see that both on left and right side, about the same height.

I still use ATG to put the dustcover on. My shop cannot be called climate controlled at all. Like Niko, I don't paper too tightly, but I do paper it straight. If you have troubles with that (and I believe we all have experienced it when we just started :) ) you might consider glue as you can reposition it when it is not lined up correctly. ATG makes that a little harder

I use the equivalent of Lineco paper, which I believe is 40# paper
Hi Jason,

Welcome to the G!

You mention it was drum tight, but I do see creases in the paper cover that were not due to humidity changes. More like it didn't go on perfectly and you made it tight by folding it a little bit. I see that both on left and right side, about the same height.

I still use ATG to put the dustcover on. My shop cannot be called climate controlled at all. Like Niko, I don't paper too tightly, but I do paper it straight. If you have troubles with that (and I believe we all have experienced it when we just started :) ) you might consider glue as you can reposition it when it is not lined up correctly. ATG makes that a little harder

I use the equivalent of Lineco paper, which I believe is 40# paper
Well the paper was perfect with no creases and it did that to all of them so that's what's confusing me
 
If a properly applied dustcover paper wrinkles at times, no worries. That's expansion of the paper's fibers, almost always due to high humidity, and the paper will contract and go flat again when the humidity goes down.

We've had dustcover discussions in the past. In my recollection, this Grumble thread is one of the best on this topic.

Check out this YouTube demonstration video made by Anton's in Australia. It's the best demonstration video I've seen for gluing dustcovers. It also demonstrates the best way to join multiple mat layers together.

Any good quality PVA glue used for frame miters can work, but my favorite is ATG Turbo, which has the right viscosity for the purpose, and plenty of solids in the emulsion.

If you have trouble using glue to install dustcovers, you're not doing it right. In classes, I've learned of at least a few ways to screw it up:

1. Using too much glue. Use the thinnest bead of glue that you can dispense continuously around the frame, within 1/4" of the outer edge. Any more than a 1/16" wide bead is too much, because it would soak into the paper, which could cause cockling and slippage, and it takes too long to dry.

2. Letting the glue "set up" (partially dry) before applying the paper. Nope. Apply the dustcover paper immediately or no more than 30 seconds after the glue. To avoid delay, I suggest having the sheet of dustcover paper ready to apply before gluing. Sometimes the paper's edges will cockle slightly, but after burnishing and drying, the cockles disappear. Yes they will.

3. Failing to burnish properly. Immediately after laying the paper on the glue, use a burnishing bone or any other smooth, flat, rigid tool to squish the wet glue toward the outer edges of the frame, just as a snowplow pushes snow off the road. Use enough pressure to flatten the bead of glue and spread it toward the edges, which also tends to pull the sheet flat. If a bit of glue oozes out under the paper, just wipe it off with a damp towel after trimming. It's water-soluble, you know.

4. Shredding the paper's edges when trimming. I've always used a fresh single-edge razor blade to trim dustcovers and have never experienced this issue. However, if you use a trimming tool, just make sure the blade is fresh. Also, you could wait to trim the paper until after you install the hanging hardware. Two or three minutes of drying should eliminate any soaked-paper shredding.

5. Sloppy application. Make sure you're applying the glue with no gaps, and within 1/4" of the edge (1/8" is better). With normal expansion and contraction, gaps in the bead-line could allow the paper to cockle, and if the glue isn't plowed right out to the frame's edges, then the paper's edges could curl.

I've heard framers say dustcover gluing takes too long. Is 30-60 seconds too much time to invest for a better result? With a bit of practice, gluing can be almost as fast as using ATG, which also has to be burnished, of course.

Remember that ATG tape is among the most expensive adhesives in a typical frame shop, and PVA glue is among the cheapest. So, at any typical Shop Labor Rate, an extra 30 to 60 seconds to use glue instead of ATG almost certainly would cost less than using ATG tape.

And then there's the fact that ATG tape tends to fail, especially if not thoroughly burnished, and when it's necessary to remove a dustcover, it leaves a gooey mess to clean off. On the other hand, the glue will not deteriorate like the pressure-sensitive adhesive and glued dustcover, and its residue on the frame, can be easily removed using a bit of water.

Practice. Practice. Practice.
 
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I've been framing for a year now and this is the first time i have experienced this. After finishing a frame and applying the backing paper tight as a drum so to speak, after a day or two the paper is loose and warped. It looks like i did it while drunk and eyes closed haha. The only thing i can think is the temp. change in the shop since it's been cold. the temp in shop is usually 70 degrees and turn it off when we leave. If thats the case, i should probably just turn the heat down a lil at night. Has anyone experienced this? I hope you can tell what Im talking about by my pic. If not i can take another one View attachment 51065
Aloha! Well one I would be taut on the first application. That would be one thing because it appears you have a couple of crimps on each side south of your wiring. The other which is crucial is the type of atg tape you are using. Scotch 3m works best. Some brands do not have a long lasting effect and all brands are effected by their atmospheric environment (meaning one day extremely tacky and other days not so much).. One way to counter that is once I apply the backing paper in a taut manner, I will burnish the paper/runner with a handle of choice and then do the trim 1/8th from the edge. I have been framing in Hawaii for 20 years and don't remember if I ever had this problem except maybe early on. Another helpful thing would be keeping some type of dehumidifier around. A box of silica gel or my favorite for home is a bag of old school kitty litter . Not the new fancy stuff but the plain walmart CLAY litter. Beats costly DampRid brand. Hope these suggestions will be of help. If I have the time I will upload a quick video of my technique in process.
 
If a properly applied dustcover paper wrinkles at times, no worries. That's expansion of the paper's fibers, almost always due to high humidity, and the paper will contract and go flat again when the humidity goes down.

We've had dustcover discussions in the past. In my recollection, this Grumble thread is one of the best on this topic.

Check out this YouTube demonstration video made by Anton's in Australia. It's the best demonstration video I've seen for gluing dustcovers. It also demonstrates the best way to join multiple mat layers together.

Any good quality PVA glue used for frame miters can work, but my favorite is ATG Turbo, which has the right viscosity for the purpose, and plenty of solids in the emulsion.

If you have trouble using glue to install dustcovers, you're not doing it right. In classes, I've learned of at least a few ways to screw it up:

1. Using too much glue. Use the thinnest bead of glue that you can dispense continuously around the frame, within 1/4" of the outer edge. Any more than a 1/16" wide bead is too much, because it would soak into the paper, which could cause cockling and slippage, and it takes too long to dry.

2. Letting the glue "set up" (partially dry) before applying the paper. Nope. Apply the dustcover paper immediately or no more than 30 seconds after the glue. To avoid delay, I suggest having the sheet of dustcover paper ready to apply before gluing. Sometimes the paper's edges will cockle slightly, but after burnishing and drying, the cockles disappear. Yes they will.

3. Failing to burnish properly. Immediately after laying the paper on the glue, use a burnishing bone or any other smooth, flat, rigid tool to squish the wet glue toward the outer edges of the frame, just as a snowplow pushes snow off the road. Use enough pressure to flatten the bead of glue and spread it toward the edges, which also tends to pull the sheet flat. If a bit of glue oozes out under the paper, just wipe it off with a damp towel after trimming. It's water-soluble, you know.

4. Shredding the paper's edges when trimming. I've always used a fresh single-edge razor blade to trim dustcovers and have never experienced this issue. However, if you use a trimming tool, just make sure the blade is fresh. Also, you could wait to trim the paper until after you install the hanging hardware. Two or three minutes of drying should eliminate any soaked-paper shredding.

5. Sloppy application. Make sure you're applying the glue with no gaps, and within 1/4" of the edge (1/8" is better). With normal expansion and contraction, gaps in the bead-line could allow the paper to cockle, and if the glue isn't plowed right out to the frame's edges, then the paper's edges could curl.

I've heard framers say dustcover gluing takes too long. Is 30-60 seconds too much time to invest for a better result? With a bit of practice, gluing can be almost as fast as using ATG, which also has to be burnished, of course.

Remember that ATG tape is among the most expensive adhesives in a typical frame shop, and PVA glue is among the cheapest. So, at any typical Shop Labor Rate, an extra 30 to 60 seconds to use glue instead of ATG almost certainly would cost less than using ATG tape.

And then there's the fact that ATG tape tends to fail, especially if not thoroughly burnished, and when it's necessary to remove a dustcover, it leaves a gooey mess to clean off. On the other hand, a glued dustcover and its residue on the frame can be easily removed using a bit of water.

Practice. Practice. Practice.
Great post, Jim. All your tips are right on. I also find that a sharp handheld blade is much more controllable than any kind of special tool. For burnishing, I usually use the side of a nailset head, or... a Sharpie pen (see, they are good for something), which is a little easier to hold when working on large frames. I am a huge fan of ATG Turbo, and usually use that alone. However, for large frames, I apply a few small tabs of ATG to each rail before gluing and applying the paper. I find that this keeps the paper from sliding around while burnishing. Every now and then I encounter a frame that has a finish on the back too which is a bit slick and which resists the adhesion of glue. In those cases I use ATG to apply the dust cover... but this is rare. In general I prefer the 987 "Highland" version of the ATG over the regular 924, because it is less "goopy". I only buy a few rolls at a time, because I use far less of it than most shops.
:cool: Rick
 
I've been framing for a year now and this is the first time i have experienced this. After finishing a frame and applying the backing paper tight as a drum so to speak, after a day or two the paper is loose and warped. It looks like i did it while drunk and eyes closed haha. The only thing i can think is the temp. change in the shop since it's been cold. the temp in shop is usually 70 degrees and turn it off when we leave. If thats the case, i should probably just turn the heat down a lil at night. Has anyone experienced this? I hope you can tell what Im talking about by my pic. If not i can take another one View attachment 51065
I've been framing for a year now and this is the first time i have experienced this. After finishing a frame and applying the backing paper tight as a drum so to speak, after a day or two the paper is loose and warped. It looks like i did it while drunk and eyes closed haha. The only thing i can think is the temp. change in the shop since it's been cold. the temp in shop is usually 70 degrees and turn it off when we leave. If thats the case, i should probably just turn the heat down a lil at night. Has anyone experienced this? I hope you can tell what Im talking about by my pic. If not i can take another one View attachment 51065
Another thought is the molding used and sometimes those with a smoother back will not adhere as well....I had a video of my backing tecnique for you but the site will not let me upload it even though it was 5mbs. ??? Anyway hope this helps.
 
I've been framing for a year now and this is the first time i have experienced this. After finishing a frame and applying the backing paper tight as a drum so to speak, after a day or two the paper is loose and warped. It looks like i did it while drunk and eyes closed haha. The only thing i can think is the temp. change in the shop since it's been cold. the temp in shop is usually 70 degrees and turn it off when we leave. If thats the case, i should probably just turn the heat down a lil at night. Has anyone experienced this? I hope you can tell what Im talking about by my pic. If not i can take another one View attachment 51065
here is a small video showing my basic technique on an old junker frame.
 

Attachments

  • video-output-A435AC5A-1754-4E86-950C-B271B7A12400 (2).mov
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One more pitch for ATG Turbo glue.
It can be heat reactivated, like fabric glue.
If you have a section lift on the dust cover because it stayed open too long before applying the paper, hit it with a tacking iron on a low setting.
 
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