Backing for Cross Stitch

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osgood

osgood

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
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Full time grey nomad traveling Oz!
What do you framers (who are concerned with preservation) use for lacing cross stitch onto?
 
The good stuff is 8-ply rag/alphacellulose board -- or several layers of white rag/alpha matboard wetmounted together in the vacuum press. Trim to frame size, and cut a "mat" out of it -- stretch the needlework on the fallout, then put it back in. Lacing is done with 100% cotton thread.

Most customers are not willing to spring for preservation framing for their hobby cross stitching works. So, we try to offer a good half-way method. That is, we use nickel-plated brass straight pins (no rust/corrosion) and ArtCare foam center board. As above, we cut mat from frame-sized board; pin to the fallout & put it back in.

It's not maximum preservation, but it's good for a long time. In any case, it's worlds better than the corrugated cardboard & masking tape the cross stitchers would do on the kitchen table.

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Jim Miller, CPFcm; GAFP Committee Member
 
I totally agree! We use artcare foam core and pin with rust proof/ stainless steel pins. It may not be called conservation, but the stitchery stays straight. Nothing upsets me more than seing a stitchery on sticky-board!

Sue
smile.gif
 
I'm surprised that all the replies so far have mentioned lacing [which drives me crazy] or using pins. I use a good stiff acid free backing - fome core or sometimes crescent af 3x board. I use map pins in the side edge of the backing to hold the needlework as I stretch it. When everything is lined up I machine sew it to the backing and then take out the pins. Works like a charm!
 
Dave, I'm a bit surprised that lacing drives you crazy! I lace everything, I repeat, everything that is on a fabric backing. The only time I found it to be a pain in the neck was the first time I did it. Having done it this way since I started framing in 1985 I find it is far easier to do than the other methods I have tried and it enable me to get the lines straight much easier too. Lacing also keeps tension on the needlework even years later when the needlework relaxes slightly.
I always sew extra material on all four sides of the piece so that the lacing only has to travel about three inches from one side to the other. I always use linen thread which has almost no stretch at all and always use one continuous length.
If anyone is interested in my method I could take some photos and post them with some instructions.
I have been using "acid free foamboard" or two layers of alphamat up until now for my backing, but will look into any other suggestions I get.
 
Hi Osgood,

I guess I would question whether linen thread might be a little too strong. I believe cotton thread is used because it breaks if pulled too tight.

We lace everything also. Have won over many customers with our need for perfection.

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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.
 
G'day Artlady,
Another reason I use linen thread is that it doesn't break too easily. I sew calico material on all four sides of the piece of needlework and this is what I lace through. I go through it twice on each side so that the load is shared by two holes in the calico not just one.
Years ago I tried cotton and I could never get enough tension on it. It broke far too easily for me.
The only time I would use less tension than normal would be on a fragile piece of work. In this case cotton may be a good thread to use.
 
G'day Osgood,

C/P people say if the thread is too strong and the piece should fall or you stretch too hard the fabric may tear. I always felt that if the thread breaks I am stretching too tight. Actually we try to match the thread to the fabric. It hard to find silk thread but in our shop cotton gets cottn, silk gets silk, etc. (to the best of our ability)

Perhaps most of the work you are stretching is linen.

Have a great day. Is it winter down under.



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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.
 
Hey again Osgood,

I was in Singapore a few years back helping another Gallery that was short handed so they asked me to work the International Art Jewelry and Antiques Show. In addition to our gallery and other galleries from around the world, the Marlboro Gallery was at the show. They brought 5 huge Boteros. So who frames those Boteros?

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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.

[This message has been edited by ArtLady (edited July 15, 2000).]
 
If lacing works well for you , who's to argue. As they say there's more than one way to skin a cat [sorry timberwoman]. You might want to consider using dental floss instead of thread. I have to admit that there have been a few needleworks that I've done that duct tape would have been the most appropriate or deserving material to use. Have fun! Dave
 
I concur with the Art Lady the thread used should be no stronger then the fabric ,it has the same principle as hinges .You want the hinge to give before the work and if you use stonger theard than fabric this can't happen .A method that was taught to me for fragile work is to blind stitch the work to an envelope of linen mounted over a rag board so not to put any unnecessary strain on the work.
I feel gulity giveing these tips since I lace very little and frame a lot of crosstitch .it isn't lack of knowledge nor concern but what the customers want that cause this .they just won't pay any more than they have to and they place very little value on their time no matter how long it takes.
Buddy
 
We have lacing as the standard in our shop. I can lace faster than anyone can staple or pin. So whether they pay or not it gets laced. However the core board will be foam board if they do not want to pay.



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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.
 
Buddy, Let me have a word with your customers about their cherished heirlooms. They are happy to pay, the question is should we use denglas to allow others to appreciate the texture of the thread or should we use museum to block those mean old ultra violets? You may be getting what you expect rather than expecting what you can get. I fall prey to this also.
 
I particularly love Tru Vu AR Museum glass.

Great product. It is a little pricey right now so I figure that the more I sell the more the price will come down and it will become more affordable. Just like my PC.



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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.
 
By the way and back to the needlepoint topic for a moment. I bought the singer tiny serger and we serge the edges of all of our customers needlepoints. The serger is about $50-$60 dollars. It can be a little testy sometimes but it is a useful tool for us.

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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.
 
Pretty good solution, AL, to ravels. What do you charge or is it included in your quoted price? Also, is there any issue with "altering" an "original"? That's really nit-picky, isn't it?
 
In my research I found it is accepted and appropriate to serge the edges. I used to tell the customers to have it done, but that was an extra step and confusing for them so now we include it at no charge. It just part of our professional gallery services.

When I am done explaining what and why I am going to do to their needleart, there is no reason to go elsewhere. We have done a lot of research on what is best and that is our shop standard. I am finding that I am the only one in town who laces so I have a definite group who patronizes our gallery.

It is amazing what a little knowledge will do.

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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.

[This message has been edited by ArtLady (edited July 16, 2000).]
 
I know price may change according to where your store is, but what kind of price are you getting for lacing? I can mount stitchery fast, but I find the time is longer for lacing than with pins.

I think we all agree that for most stitchery we need to use proper materials. Except for the few that beg for the Duct Tape. (I have had a few that already had Duct Tape on the edges.) (No Kidding!)


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Sue May :)
"Everyone is born right-handed, only the greatest can over come it!"
 
We as a rule use foam board or rag (mainly rag).
As for the thread to use I still remain oppossed to cotton, as it pulls around the other threads it is so fine it "cuts" into them, linen thread spreads when pulled around and distributes the tension over more area.
I am still at a loss as to the thread to use for those @#*! foil backed meterials used for Japanese embroidery.
 
Thanks for all your replies, people. I gather from all the discussion that most people use either foamboard or rag for backing. Some did not say what they use so I am assuming the above applies.

ArtLady, I understand what you say about the strength of thread needs to be appropriate to the fabric and I agree with that. It is very rare for me to get any needlework that linen is too strong for.
I think that tearing of fabric if the frame falls would only happen if the fabric was extremely frail and really strong thread was used and had been tensioned to almost the breaking point of the fabric.
Almost all the work I get is new needlework such as cross stitch, tapestry and Bunka and is very robust so linen thread is not a problem.
In my method of lacing, the linen thread does not pass through the backing fabric unless it happens to be large enough to almost meet at the back. I machine sew calico on all four sides of the fabric and this folds around the back with about one inch between. The lacing thread is then passed through the calico in and out then across to the other side and in and out and then back to the opposite side. This halves the load on the calico and allows extra tension to be applied if necessary.
I agree with you that lacing is quicker than stapling or pins. It is also easier to get the lines straight...you do not have to remove staples or pins in order to remove a bend in any lines on the needlework.

I hope I have not been to confusing! Its difficult to explain some things in words.

Susan May, As far as pricing is concerned, I charge around $45 Australian for lacing a piece around 18 x 24 inches. I have to tell you that duct tape is totally banned from my framing shop on punishment of a slow torturous death.

If anyone is interested, I am going to make up a set of instructions on my method of lacing, with photos. (new digital camera is my latest toy)
 
Something has just occurred to me about using the same type of thread for lacing as the fabric has been made from. In lacing a piece that is, say 12 inches wide, I would have approximately 12 strands of lacing acroos the back. The fabric might contain some 200 to 600 or more strands. Surely 200 or more strands will be stronger than 12, if the thickness is similar.
Are we panicking a little too much?
 
I once took a needle-work mounting class from PPFA, and for lacing they recomended the stitches on the back to be no more than 1/4" away from each other. That would be at least 4 stitches per inch. However, she also taught us how to use sticky board. I almost had a heart-attack!
As for duct tape... we don't use it for anything, I just have some customers that tape the sides of their cross-stitch while stitching. I always get permission to cut it off.
Lance E- I have had the oppertunity to frame a few Japanese embroidery as my mother-in-law used to live in Japan. When they take the classes in Japan they also frame them. (She is an acredidted teacher of Japanese Bunka) The framing they teach leaves me shuddering! They mount on wood, with glue on the edges! Guess who got to reframe them?
I find the fabric very stretchy and therefor hard to lace, I used stainless steel pins on Art-care foam board. If I were going to lace them I would probably use cotton thread because of it's long life.

When in doubt, use cotton!

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Sue May :)
"Everyone is born right-handed, only the greatest can over come it!"
 
Those 1/2 inch thick hunks of pine/cedar/maple/ whatever is around method??? yes I love it to bits also.
 
Susan May,
The bunka fabric is very stretchy due to the fatc that it has to grip the needlework tightly to prevent it from pulling back out with the punch needle.

As I said before, I machine sew calico on all four edges of everything and lace through that, not the fabric that the needlework is on. I find this negates any disadvantage you might find in most fabrics.

SS pins in foamboard is fine for a while but what happens when the fabric relaxes? The pins are permanently fixed in one position. Inevitably the fabric becomes slightly loose. When needlework is laced there is always a tension on the fabric so that when the fabric relaxes, there is still tension being applied by the lacing.

Cotton is good....I like cotton too, but it is just too weak for most lacing jobs that I do. Linen is a thread made from the flax plant and is very, very, very durable and it doesn't stretch very much at all.
 
osgood- You mention the fact that fabric will relax, won't that apply to the thread as well? Also is you listen to PPFA, they recomend that you reframe all stitcherys every 6-7 years. Though I havent seen anyone do that.
I want to thank everyone for all the information that is passed on here. I feel that I get more out of reading this forum than I ever got out of PPFA.

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Sue May :)
"Everyone is born right-handed, only the greatest can over come it!"
 
Susan May,
Yes, I guess the lacing will relax too, but the advantage of lacing is that the needlework fabric and the lacing are virtually in one continuous loop around the backing board and not locked in place to the backing board so relaxing is balanced around the loop. (Sorry I'm not qualified in physics so my explanation might be a bit hard to follow)
As far as reframing needlework every 6 or 7 years....I think my customers would find that extremely hilarious if I suggested it. They would probably say "if you did the job right in the first place it wouldn't require that" hence throwing my workmanship into grave doubt in their minds. I think I'll give that suggestion a big miss.
 
Hi! I'm new to framing, new to this site, and, new to bulletin boards. Have never enjoyed or learned so much from a bb as this one! Anyway, to osgood: would really like to see pictures & instructions for lacing. I have only just begun, and already have to needlepoint pieces to do. Was going to put them on adhesive backing, but will wisely listen to you all and lace instead.
Thanks!
 
Adhesive backing? (shudder) Suzy, I'm glad you came to this board! Pat yourself on the back for actually trying to learn the correct way of doing thinds instead of guessing and possibly doing irreparable harm to a customers piece.
smile.gif



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Seth J. Bogdanove, CPF
21 years framing and still loving it
 
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