Attaching a fillet to a mat

Slick

Grumbler in Training
Joined
May 26, 2004
Posts
9
Loc
Michigan
This is my first time using a fillet,can someone please explain the proper method to attach a fillet to a mat. Do you just tape it to the back side of the mat, if so what is the best type of tape to use? Do you need to join it? If so what is used? How do you make sure the corners are tight? I have seen some that have separated at the mitered corners. How do you prevent this from happening?
 
I always join the fillet first in a vice with glue. If you let each corner dry about 10 minutes, they shouldn't break apart. Then I place ATG on the back of the mat and on the lip of the fillet. I then run a small bead of glue next to the tape on the back of the mat. Then carefully place the mat on top of the fillet. Next build up the back of the mat with foam core to get equal height on the back of the mat. Then use the Lineco aluminum barrier tape to line the wood on the back of the fillet. This will also keep the fillet from moving.
 
Slick,

I hate to bring this up as I think it is essential for your future in framing and I would be remiss in not mentioning it to you. Using fillets is part of the basic education, in my opinion, of learning the framing trade. Like any other trade you should be aware of the basic techniques before you get involved in doing whatever you choose to do for your job.

I certainly don't begrudge you the opportunity of finding out how to do things here or anywhere else but, for your own good and the future of your business, I would strongly advise that you take classes on those aspects of framing of which you are unfamiliar. It will pay off tenfold in the long run.

There is much more to the mounting of fillets than was alluded to by Kristen and there are other methods that are in use. For example, it's a good idea to cut a reverse&nbsp bevel on your mat opening before mounting fillets rather than a regular bevel. You have a much cleaner presentation than that with the white edge of the fillet showing alongside the back edge of the fillet. Fitting the fillet to the opening takes some technique and skill also. Adhering them to the back of the mat may be done in a couple of ways, none of which are "better" or "worse", just personal technique and what is the norm for that part of the framing operation.

I feel that if you enter into a profession with less than the basic skills training you will be doing a dis-service to yourself and your customers. As one of your customers, I wouldn't want you learning on MY $400 frame job! I would expect that you would already have the basics down and be able to present me with a professionally done framing job.

I am not trying to make you feel bad or condemn your wanting to ask questions here on the Grumble. I only want to make you aware of the risk of possibly trying to learn framing from an internet forum. The answers that you get are not always the correct ones. And, with no prior background to compare what you read, you may find yourself doing the wrong thing to a piece of customer work and not realizing it. And the repercussions of those actions may turn out to be very costly to you.

Framerguy
 
As with any technique, we all have our own version of the "best way" to do this...

My technique is similar to Kristen's but I do not join the fillet.

As I was in a class where I was shown the basic technique, I have - I think - perfected mine. And I have to say with only a couple of practice tries - my first was as close to perfect as many of those I have done since. Maybe beginner's luck - but I did "practice" on a $400 frame job - and if it wasn't right - it was my cost of doing business to learn on that frame - the customer still received the highest quality work - which is what she paid for.

It was my expense to practice. And just like doctors - they "practice" medicine all the time and that is far more important that practicing on a fillet!

Roz
 
Slick, Don't mind Framerguy, he's crotchety and pissy right now because of a few little wind storms lately.

Slick, Pay close attention to what Framerguy has to say. He is old and wise. Get every bit of education you can afford. And also get some that you thought you couldn't afford.

With all that being said. I didn't know how to do fillets for the first 20 years of my career either. They weren't around.

There used to be a cool plastic flexable fillet too, at one time..... can you say heat and shrink.
Sure, I knew you could.

get the $200 chopper from LJ or whoever. But the ATG from Pacific Framing Supply out of of Salem,OR is the best. It's from England and VERY STICKY!!!

Welcome to the asylum.

baer
 
another thought is too use scotch 969 instead of 924. it is much stronger and you may even want to use some white glue to give a bit extra support
d
 
Roz,

I apologize if you took any of what I said personally. I wasn't trying to disparage anyone's specific technique for cutting and mounting fillets. I was only making a feeble attempt to be honest with somebody who appeared to have no background nor any formal training in using fillets. I didn't mean to make an issue out of how anyone in particular mounts fillets.

Slick,

Here is, in detail, how I handle the fillet situation. Anyone who feels like it has my full permission to rip, shred, and otherwise tear apart my method with no malice from this end whatsoever.

1. First, as I said, it makes a cleaner presentation if you carefully mark on the face of the mat the exact dimensions of your opening lightly&nbsp with a penciland cut the opening with a reverse bevel. Make your cuts exactly from each corner to the opposite corner as any overcuts will show up in the finished mat.

2. If you have a fillet cutter (one of the best investments I made in my shop for small tools!), cut one end of the fillet. Lay that in the opening with the mitered end against the corner and mark the opposite end of the fillet for your second cut. Carefully chop that end and check for fit. Start with one of the long sides of the opening. That way, if you mess up and make the fillet too short, you can cut it down and use it on one of the short sides later.

3. Once you have one side cut, make the other long side and check for fit. The nice thing about a fillet cutter is you have a stop on most of them and can set the stop on the first fillet so that the second is cut exactly the same length. Then cut the 2 short sides. Lay all of them in the opening and check for proper fit. Shave off a schosh if needed to get a nice set of tight fitting corners.

4. I use the ASAP fillet tape that Dermot mentioned but most of the fillet tapes are good and have an extremely high tack to them. Tape the flat lip of the fillet (or the back of the mat if you are steady of hand and accurate of eye) and start installing each leg into the opening. I usually tape short "tracks" across the fillet and fill in the gaps with framer's glue or any good PVA glue. I use Maxim 5/15 and CornerWeld in my shop but there are many good brands of white framer's glue out there.

5. After you are done installing the fillet, cut some filler board (1/8" foam core works great) and build up the back side of the mat to the same lever as the fillet so the mat sits flat. Now,it depends on what you are doing with the mat package. If you are doing a double mat, attach the bottom mat to the built up top mat and you are finished. If you are doing a single mat with fillet, you should probably use a mylar tape or some type of barrier tape on the bottom of the fillet to avoid contact with the artwork. That fillet is wood and can acid burn an art surface in short time.

I have explained this off the top of my bald head so I may have missed something but that gives you a general rundown of how it's done. This is my way of installing fillets and, as I said before, there are other methods of doing the same job.

I would also re-emphasize that, for your own peace of mind and to further enhance your framing knowledge, you should really take some classes in those techniques that you feel you need some training. It doesn't hurt anything and you will find a wealth of information in most of the Decor classes or the PPFA classes at the various trade shows. I still take classes on a regular basis and I always learn something from them.

Knowledge is one of the few things that is completely yours when you have it! Nobody can take it away from you and you are <u>always</u> the better person for having it.

Good luck.

FGII
 
Slick

Framerguy has given you excellent instructions. BUT! I also would recommend that you either train with another experienced framer first or get schooled. If you are like me you don't have that option. Get thee to a 4 or 5 day training school!! I did and it was the best investment I ever made. You will do firsthand what Framerguy described.(I imagine when you read his instructions it all sounded "Greek") It would have to me if I hadn't done it before. The training has (knock-on wood) kept me from ever doing a bad fillet job....and welcome to the G! :D

Good luck
 
Maybe Slick Slick can share what he or she knows or does not.

Less likes to think he is the fillet master. Heck, he should be good at something.

Did Less mention how much he likes to vnailem?

?

?

So do you want Less to be Less or the other guy? Would you miss Less? I think I would. The question should be, would the other guy still be Less, or would he be more?
 
Reading this reminds me that I should suggest fillets more than I do. There are so many new and exciting varieties out there and they not only give a truly quality custom look, but also boost the ticket price nicely. When designed properly for the right artwork, I have never had a customer balk at the price when they understand the elements of the job. The look on there faces when they pick up their work is a great affirmation of why I work in this trade.

Dave Makielski


"A friend is someone who can sing the song of your soul even when you have forgotten the words."
 
You get much tighter corners if you glue and clamp your fillets just like a frame. After they are dry, it is much easier to get the proper alignment in the mat. Using the pin-wheel method, if the first leg is off the tiniest amount the forth leg will look terrible.
 
Good point, Jerry. I suppose that, as I become more chronologically endowed, I have also become a bit on the lazy side and don't bother clamping and gluing fillet corners anymore.

(Hey! I don't have THAT many minutes left on my chronological time clock!!!)
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I still haven't figured out Less's methods for V-nailing those little critters together. I use a Euro 9009 and, even with the little teeny V-nails that are made for fillets, I still have problems with splitting and seating of the V-nails. And, for this chapter of my life, I prefer to leave the V-nailing of fillets section open so I don't screw up the plot of the movie that is sure to follow my demise.
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FGII
 
I have been in business for some 12 years and am in a very well to do part of town. My customers love fillets, and so consequently I have done 1000s of them over the years. After all these years of practice the method that I use is almost exactly what Kristen described, with one addition;

Once the fillet has been installed in the reverse beveled opening, and the foam strips (1/8 " foam works best for most) have been added to fill in the fillet edge, I then use a burnishing bone.

From the front side of the mat, by running the burnishing bone tip between the mat and fillet seam you will give the mat edge a much more professional, finished look, as well as sealing the mat edge tighter to the fillet.

If you are going to do a lot of fillets, or even a few, you definitely need to get a mini miter. I'm on my second one and wouldn't be without it.
 
Framerguy,

I did not take your comment personally. Only to say I took a different perspective of trying new techniques that one may be unfamiliar with... and I do agree - TRAINING is very important. A class is essential... I love classes and, in fact, was in one this past Sunday - learning about Beveled accents!! I love them. And, I have to say they enhance designs in a different way than fillets but certainly are nearly as tricky but you do what is needed to achieve some great looks!!

There are days when my skill level is peak and days when I should just play on the grumble!!
 
You didn't ask this, but I offer it as a way to make the fillet look better with the art and you will make more money.

Use the rabbet tape under the fillet but also put it on a mat board giving yourself around an inch away from the opening. The mat board can be a contrasting color or even approximatly the color of the fillet or the same color as the top mat. Spacing the fillet away from the opening ensures the fillet won't tend to damage the art as it could right next to the mat opening but it also provides a visual rest area between the fillet and the art making the fillet look more precious. When the fillet is right next to the art it can make the art look crowded.

You make more money because your mat and everything else has to be bigger, and your selling an extra mat. Try it, it really does look much better moving it back.

Just a suggestion.
 
For those who ordered in Atlanta, our Fillet Master came in today. It looks like they're shipping just in time for the holidays!

Mike
 
There are no permanent pressure sensitive adhesives!!!! Mat boards expand with changes in humidity, fillets do not. Have you ever seen what your fillet frame jobs look like in 10 years? I have seen lots of terrible looking fillet jobs and can't help but wonder how some of mine look now after a few years. Have you ever done a time study to see how long it really takes to do a fillet? Stick with what's profitable and sure to last.
 
FG

I use my Cassese foot-powered

I mark my corners a,b,c,d so I know how it fits

glue and one 3mm in the meat of the fillet is all it takes

works on the 150CG & x0466 (don't use more than one)

I run 969 around the mat then drop it on the joined fillet

rest as usual

1/8 af pin-wheeled, Lineco rabbit sealer tape and 2 or 4ply on most things
 
From one beginner to another--take the LJ week-long course. Paul McFarland was our instructor, and it was fabulous. I left with not only knowledge and skill but with confidence. I took the class in February of this year so I guess that makes me a 9-month veteran framer. I have also learned to use a dummy fillet scrap to help attain a neat miter when cutting and fitting each side. Keep reading the Grumble, you will learn a bunch--sometimes more than you wanted to know!
 
Originally posted by Greg Fremstad:
There are no permanent pressure sensitive adhesives!!!! Mat boards expand with changes in humidity, fillets do not...
I'm with Greg on this one, and would not rely on any pressure-sensitive adhesive to hold a fillet in place long-term.

I use 3M #889 double-sided tape to hold it in place temporarily, and then use Lineco acid-free PVA glue to attach the fillet pieces' outer edges to spacer boards, equal to the fillet's thickness, which fill the space under the mat.

That makes an integal unit, not likely to come apart over the years, even with radical expansion & contraction cycles.
 
Originally posted by Jim Miller:
I use 3M #889 double-sided tape to hold it in place temporarily, and then use Lineco acid-free PVA glue to attach the fillet pieces' outer edges to spacer boards, equal to the fillet's thickness, which fill the space under the mat.
Jim,
What do you use for the "spacer boards" and where is the glue? Edge to edge? I'm having a little trouble visualizing this method.

Many thanks
 
Meghan:

Generally I'll use layers of 4-ply matboard to equal the thickness of the fillet behind the mat; usually it's two layers.

I cut the board into strips, as wide as necessary to fill the width from the outer edge of the fillet to the outer edge of the mat, and glue them to the back of the mat. Their inner edges are butted against the fillet under the mat, and glued to it.

The purpose of the spacer boards is to make the mat the same thickness all across its area. Otherwise, if the filleted (is that a word?) mat were fitted into the frame without spacers, a separation would show between the fillet and the art.

Also, our usual designs include a layer of alphacellulose board under the fillet, to serve as a buffer against acid migration into the art from the wood fillet.

If more protection is needed, we'll add a layer of clear film (Melinex 516), or a layer of Lineco foilback tape. And if maximum preservation is the framing goal, there just won't be a fillet anywhere in the frame package.
 
Originally posted by Jim Miller:

I use 3M #889 double-sided tape to hold it in place temporarily, and then use Lineco acid-free PVA glue to attach the fillet pieces' outer edges to spacer boards, equal to the fillet's thickness, which fill the space under the mat.
OK I'm going to start using glue to attach fillets to the mat. My question is does it really matter what kind of glue I use. What we have in the shop is Corner Weld, and I’m not sure why acid free glue is necessary, given that the fillet is full of acid and lignin anyway. Thanks very much for any information.
 
Originally posted by framanista:
[/qb]
OK I'm going to start using glue to attach fillets to the mat. My question is does it really matter what kind of glue I use. What we have in the shop is Corner Weld, and I’m not sure why acid free glue is necessary, given that the fillet is full of acid and lignin anyway. Thanks very much for any information.
[/QB][/QUOTE]

Good point. Using CornerWeld instead of an acid free PVA glue probably wouldn't do any more harm than the lignin in the fillet itself.

But on the other hand, maybe there's some strange situation where it would. Chemical migration within the frame is sometimes a problem. Part of the problem is that generally, we just don't know how the migrating chemicals will interact.

That's why any fillet inside any frame represents an exception to the FACTS Preservation Framing Guideline FRM2000.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't include fillets in our frame designs. It only means that we should recognize -- and inform our customers -- that fillets create a possible hazard for some collectible artworks.
 
Originally posted by Kristen:
I always join the fillet first in a vice with glue. If you let each corner dry about 10 minutes, they shouldn't break apart. Then I place ATG on the back of the mat and on the lip of the fillet. I then run a small bead of glue next to the tape on the back of the mat. Then carefully place the mat on top of the fillet. Next build up the back of the mat with foam core to get equal height on the back of the mat. Then use the Lineco aluminum barrier tape to line the wood on the back of the fillet. This will also keep the fillet from moving.
Gaylord makes a superior barrier tape to the lineco one. it actually -gasp- sticks to the wood!
 
Found this a bit late, but anyway.......

I would say that at least 60% of my work goes out with a mount (mat) slip (fillet)

I always try and persuade the customer to have this between a double mount, what is the point of of using conservation boards as standard and then putting wood next to the artwork!"

Here's how I do it. NO double sided tape....

Fit the slips in place, make them flush, secure them to the board used to make flush with magic tape or FP90, pulling them tight into the aperture as you do so
 
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