Attach a medal without an Attach Eze

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a medal what?


if it is a military medal with ribbon
cut a horzontal slit in the mat board
then take a piece of acid free cloth tape fead it through the slit from the back
then loop it around the pin
then back through the matboard
pull it tight and tape the tape

any other thype let us have a better description.
 
Small dab of "Tacky Glue", it is a clear drying, water soluble glue that is available at most craft and fabrics stores. It is super handy stuff to have in any frame shop.

You can also use silicone glue.

John
 
jerry
tell them how to attach the mylar strip.


bythe way hasn't mylar been discontinued & replaced by something ending in a D?
 
Mylar-D is available only up to 2 mils. For 3 mil & thicker, use Melinex 516. Both of those clear polyester films have been tested and approved for framing uses in the US Library of Congress, so they are probably OK for us to use.

Check the archives for "clear film straps", "military medals", or maybe "Mylar mounting".
 
lorimce said:
Hi there,

Is there a simple way to attach a medal to a mat board without using an Attach Eze tool (which I don't have).

Thankyou,
Lori
Click to expand...

You're probably not gonna believe this Lori, but up to a very few years ago we attached everything without using an Attach EZ tool!!!

Yeah!! ............ Really!!

I would rather use Jerry's method for military medals anyway as they have some weight to them and I trust the Melanex straps much more than a couple of short tags over the long run. But that is strictly a personal opinion.

Oh, and welcome to the Grumble.
 
Wow, thanks for all the fantastic ideas. I hadn't thought to search "military" when trying to find the answer. Glad to find I don't have to go purchase another tool just to finish off this one project.

Thanks for the welcome also.
Lori
 
Lori:

Maybe you should buy that Attach-EZ tool anyway, and have it ready next time. And if you have it on hand, you probably will discover other uses for it.
 
JRB said:
Small dab of "Tacky Glue", it is a clear drying, water soluble glue that is available at most craft and fabrics stores. It is super handy stuff to have in any frame shop.

You can also use silicone glue.

John
Click to expand...

Jeez John, I can't believe you got away with that one. You crack me up. :thumbsup:
 
There's a dirty little word called "Silicone" that works beautifully, easily and as long as you let it completely dry before closing your framing, it doesn't do any damage. (It peels off easily too) Just don't get it on the cloth part of the metal.
 
Both the gluing methods I mentioned are viable.Tacky is an inert, water soluble glue that can be removed with water, even after drying. As Jennifer mentioned, if silicone is allowed to cure properly before fitting in the frame it will not hurt the metal. As she also stated, it is easily removed after curing. We keep an e string in our shop for that exact purpose, just slide it behind the glued object, then roll the remaining silicone off with your finger.

Baer, got away with what? The question was "what is a simple way?"

You can recite all that hogwash about out gassing and this and that. I have re-fit shadow boxes I did over thirty years ago, no visible damage from the old silicone. In those days I just let it dry enough to frame it. Everyone wants to take preservation to the molecular level. We are picture framers, people want to display things, as long as we are reasonable about the materials we use, that is what we should do for them. The very act of framing and displaying anything is not conducive to long term preservation. Pictures are meant to be enjoyed, not locked away in some preservation encapsulation in a vault.

John
 
Oh John. Don't ever thing I was saying you were wrong.... in any way shape or form. In fact, I find you 80% correct... assuming that 80% of the stuff out there falls into the "non-anal retentive preservation because I can and my reputation is at stake even if nobody cares".

Art medium gel is a little less stinky..... and I've even heard rumors that certain Masters use it to stick down fabric. :D

Thanks for peeling open the can of "shift worms" :D

This is gonna be more fun then sticking down arrowheads.
 
Well what do you know, perhaps I have leaned something new, again. Using gel medium as a glue, what a great idea, I will try it. Is that acrylic or Grumbacker clear oil based gel? I used to use the Grumbacker clear oil gel for texturing prints, when I was much younger and did such foolish things. I did a very large government job using the Grumbacker, it came out great.

Thanks for the tip, Baer.

John
 
They are using the water base gel mediums.
Liquidtex, winsor & newton, which ever.
 
The operative word is ACRYLIC. That is, acrylic gel makes a good adhesive for some tricky applications. I've never tried it on metal, though. Come to think of it, I've never tried acrylic gel in direct contact with any customer's property, other than to texturize poster prints.

I'll reserve my opinion about using silicone to mount anything, and just suggest a review of the archives under search terms such as "silicone". You'll find plenty to argue about there.
 
There's always something to argue about, for me, it is hard to argue about silicone for gluing down metallic objects, it works, and I have never seen any damage from doing so.

There has got to be better things to argue about, I think.

John
 
I don't use silicone any more thanks to this place - the alternatives are as easy to remove as they were to install.

Get the stuff on the glass - throw the glass away!

But I do have a book by Vivian Kistler detailing how to use silicone for all sorts of things - it's a very old book.

Does she have a newer book saying it is bad?
 
We all know that the very act of framing most anything is contrary to total preservation, due to UV bombardment, atmospheric variables, etc. Yet those folks who insist on displaying things like The Mona Lisa, just so people can enjoy it, do it regardless.

This is much like the folks who come to us, they just want to be able to enjoy their treasures in their homes. Some want to be able to sell them at a profit, someday. Others want to pass them on to their kids, most just want to hang it on their walls.

Most of the things we get for framing are on a somewhat lesser scale than The Mona Lisa. With the archival materials, acid free mats, UV glass, etc. we have the capabilities to frame most anything to reasonable standards today.

We also must be able to use common sense when deciding how far we want to go in our preservation efforts, based on our customers desires, not some overblown notion of our own.

I would never use silicone glue on The medal of Honor, for instance. I would use it on most campaign medals and uniform insignia, since I have never seen damage caused by it's use. I am not 100% positive it won't cause long term damage, hence, not on The Medal of Honor. It's common sense, that is all.

John
 
Well John, ya took enough heat by yourself on this silicone issue so I'll jump in on your side and see how much more mud we can wallow in!! I used alot of 100% silicone adhesive in my framing career and the key element to using it was always and will always be "common sense" tempered with a knowledge of what 100% silicone does in its curing process and making provisions for that as you work on the project.

Back in the early 90's when the Bradford type collector plates were all the rage, I framed many many of them and, as I related before, I got some insight on using 100% silicone adhesive from the AIC who said that pure silicone adhesive would do no harm to a fired ceramic surface. I believed them then. I believe them now. I tore down a plate that I mounted in the early 90's to change a cracked glass and just to look at it and check its condition and found the following:

  • First, the plate was still firmly adhered to the backing board, FIRMLY!
  • I had to cut away the backing board carefully with an Exacto knife
  • The remainder of the silicone that was left on the back of the plate peeled off fairly easily without scraping or using heat or harsh solvents
  • I examined the surface of the plate where the adhesive had been and found no micro-crazing, no cracking, no discoloration, I found nothing out of the ordinary that I could see under a 10X loupe or a 30X lighted magnifier
I have attended many rock shows and most of the fossils, rocks, and arrowheads that were attached to some kind of backing board were held in place with a hard type of glue put there by the well meaning vendors. Nevertheless, they were always popular items at all the sales and shows. If they would have used 100% silicone, I doubt that the damage would have been as much as the hard glue did but that is left to determine. I do know that 100% silicone adhesive is a very tenured adhesive and will not harden or dry out in my lifetime.

How one uses it and for what items they choose to apply it is up to the individuals and those who admonish using it at all may be just as correct in their thinking as those of us who choose to use some "common sense" in determining what should or should not be held in place with 100% silicone adhesive.
 
Thanks, Framerguy, I appreciate the backup. It is, however, early in the day. The purists have plenty of time to make us feel we should close up and take up hamburger flipping.

I also like Tacky Glue, it does dry hard, but is water soluble. It is less messy, and easier to get off glass than silicone.

What about that silicone that has been deemed safe to put in little plastic baggies, then sewn up inside a womans chest? Then people tell us not to put it behind a rock, or piece of pot metal, what's up with that? The same people who tell us not to use it because it may damage something probably have little bags of it in their chests, who knows?

John.
 
The same people who tell us not to use it because it may damage something probably have little bags of it in their chests, who knows?
Click to expand...

Dumb statement!~
 
Nonsense, it was brilliant for 7:20 in the morning, before coffee even. I also think it was funny as heck, coming from someone who hasn't had their coffee yet. Dumb statement, lets see you come up with something besides criticism this early in the morning. :)

John
 
John, I gotta go with Gumby on this one... Silicone for frames comes in tubes. Silicone for implants wont stick to anything... it is an amazing feat that they get it to coat needles for diabetics.... which in a 15 years time, it is estimated that a diabetic has more silicone floating around in their system than a "DD" leaking in a 120lb woman.

Silicon for just the rest of it, is in your computer or used for a zillion other things like glass and photovoltaics.

Now, about sillycone in chests is another hole fun thing to talk about. :D
And yes I do remember Carol Doda. Channel 49 and her talk show was right down from KLIV and our show. :D :D :D
 
I know I am new and all to the site, but I support the use of Silicone. I have been going to seminars and listening to people talk about Conservation and Preservation for almost 5 years now. I find it hard to believe that Silicone is any worse then another man made glue/gel. I just reframed a picture I had done in 1994, it had 2 coins and a few badges, all were Siliconed in and on paper matte. Nothing was wrong with the matte or coins.

At the same time I agree with the fact that I might not use Silicone on a Medal of Honor or a hard to find or replace award/medal. I would present the different methods of attaching the medal to the customer and let them know about any pros or cons and let them decide. I will stand behind the Silicone until a chemist tells me different (my Sister in Law is a Biologist and she tells me it is fine and safe to use)

Has anyone ever used the Mighty Mounts to mount coins or medals?
 
JRB said:
...What about that silicone that has been deemed safe to put in little plastic baggies, then sewn up inside a womans chest? Then people tell us not to put it behind a rock, or piece of pot metal, what's up with that?
John.
Click to expand...

That logic may be flawed, JRB. There are several substances in peoples' bodies that most of us would not wish to have in our picture frames.

I'm still reserving my opinion on mounting with silicone. This time, I'll just watch.
:popc:

You guys are doing a pretty good job of opinionating today. I'm guessing a few of you could recite my opinion on silicone mounting better than I could. Who wants to give it a try?
:kaffeetrinker_2:
 
I know the logic is flawed, I was trying to have a little fun. I just hope no one reported me to FACTS.

John
 
This hash been hashed out quite a few times already:

Jim Miller, June 19 2005:

Curing time
Sister says -- and some others agree -- that silicone is OK for framing if you wait until it has completely cured before closing up the frame. How do we know that? And how do we know when curing is complete? I've heard framers answer eight hours, overnight, a week, and up to a month. Some say it's cured when the acrid odor goes away. Who's right? Is the answer always the same, regardless of brand? Is curing time the same for a small, thin layer on a coin, as it would be for the large globs needed to hold a heavily-textured, weighty mask?

Chemical composition
Silicone adhesives aren't all the same. I guess some basic ingredients are common among them, but who knows what other chemical elements are in any particular brand? More to the point, who knows what chemical reactions could result within the closed-up environment of a frame -- even after complete curing? The adhesive chemists I've asked say that's a tricky question, and I've never heard a clear answer.

Strength of surfaces
This question applies to all adhesive bonds, not only silicone. What Emibub said above is worth repeating: "...adhesive failure rate is pretty high. It is only as strong as the surface you are gluing it to, like the surface paper on a piece of matboard. Glue will peel away from that over time." That is, the fibers of the paperboard will tear away under stress. Likewise wood, textiles, and other fiberous surfaces may shred and cause bond failure. The logical fix for that dilemma is to glue a larger surface area. But what about an unnoticed spot of skin oil or grease? What about a coating of varnish or paint that chips or peels off?

Removability
Sister said the silicone peeled right off of her tableware. Yes, some silicones will peel off of some very smooth, non-hygroscopic, coated, oily, or dirty surfaces. Is it safe to assume that whatever silicone is in hand will peel off of whatever we glue with it? Certainly not. How do we know whether any given brand is removable from any given surface? I can personally testify that it sticks quite well to porcelain bathtubs, ceramic tile, and anodized aluminum.

We always have choices about our mounting methods and materials, and our decisions may be based on any number of considerations.

When the fastest, cheapest way is best, perhaps silicone is the right choice. But if the mount is expected to last a long time, or if the issues above matter for the project at hand, then we can and should make a better choice. And on my worktable, that's nearly every time.

Rebecca, July 27 2004:

This is the link to the article, which is about tests to identify natural vs silicone rubber caulking:

http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/waac/.../wn16-208.html

This is what the author had to say re using silicone caulk in framing and exhibition contexts:

"The off-gassing thing with fresh silicone caulk is pretty well known. Silcone rubber will turn a lead coupon white in short order as the acetic acid forms lead acetate crystals on the surface. In my opinion, the biggest problem with using silicone caulk as an adhesive how difficult it is to get off the object. Even if the object is reasonably hard it can still stain.

I have seen silicone staining on stone arrowheads and tools that were mounting with it. Even glazed ceramics can have small micro-fissures in the glazing that allow the oil from the silicone to penetrate. It is nearly impossible to get out. The only thing you will ever be 100% certain you can get it off of is glass. On metals , the residual acid will etch the surface guaranteed.

There is also another aspect of using silicone caulk that you might want to alert the framers to. This not yet proven but there is some evidence that silicone caulk will give off some sort of volatile oily component over time. It has been noted on the inside of exhibit cases where the glass was siliconed in. The glass gets this hazy look to it. It is very difficult to clean off. I have heard from exhibit guys that all they can do is smear it over to the side as best they can so that the central view field is not affected. I don't know if it is a certain kind of silicone caulk or if they all do it.

Scott Carrlee, Conservator
Alaska State Museum"
 
Scott obviously has all the credentials, however, he is referring to museum collectibles, like I said, in that case, nix the silicone.

Other observations seem vague enough to qualify them as being biased, therefore not completely trustworthy conclusions.

I also stated that I have been framing for some considerable years, and have yet to see any damage or staining to anything that silicone has been used on. I should also state, in fairness to the naysayers, that I did not subject my observations to microscopic standards.

I will continue to use silicone in my framing, should I find the need, as long as what I am framing is of an everyday collectible nature. On rare collectibles, I will use other means of holding them in place. My first choice seems to be Tacky Glue for most simple glue ups, just because it is an easier cleanup.

John
 
In references to the Vivian kistler books & the use of silicone

The old book Object box Framing was done in 1980s

Framing Collectibles has two editions both with info on silicone.

There are other choices for securing items rather than silicone and they are detailed in the new books.



Vol 7 of the Library of Professional Picture Framing is up to date.
 
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