Artcare or Artique ????? Acid Free enough?

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nick1980

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I'm framing a Dali that is valued around $3,000 and I'm wondering if using Artcare or Artique is enough conservation? I know Artique says it is conservation quality but I don't want to risk anything. Do I need to actually use "Museum" board??

Thanks
 
Alpha celluose boards are equal to cotton rag in terms of conservation.
 
Artcare (either Alphamat or Alpharag) has the added benefit of zeolite molecular traps - so I would pick an Artcare product over Artique for this application.
 
...and don't forget to use only acid free masking tape when you attach it to the back of the mat!!:shutup:
 
What they said.

Artcare rocks the heck out of Artique when it comes
to conservation. If I recall correctly, the Library of Congress
changed it's mats to Artcare, because the zeolites in it zap
free radicals in the framing atmosphere. Or something like
that. Cotton rag is good, too, because it's just pure, pure,
pure. If I'm right, things like Artique and Crescent Select
are good, but a step down in the level of preservation that
they provide.

Then again, I'm just a lady writing in her bedroom who
doesn't even know what she's wearing to work today. :)

If you have any other questions about how to handle it,
this is a good place to ask. Such as whether to hinge it
or use paper corner pockets, etc... Anytime I read about
a Dali worth money, I wonder if it's real. He signed so many
blank pieces of paper before he died, that they printed on
afterward. That, along with the ten zillion knock-offs means
that there's a motherload of fake 'valuable' Dali prints
floating around. Then again, see my last paragraph.

Either way, it's good to use conservation materials on it.
And maybe tell them not to hang it on an outside wall.
And not to leave it baking in the trunk of their hot car
after they pick it up from you and stop to buy groceries.

And tell them to send their mom a Mother's Day card.

And buy yourself a dark chocolate bar that you eat
all at once without stopping.

And have a good day.

Bye. :smiley:
 
The Smithsonian uses Rising, according to the Legion Paper rep.

I think cotton rag's your best bet for something like that if it truly is a Dali. If you're using Bainbridge, go with their Alpharag series. As much as I love Artique (it's been, thus far, the only company I haven't called to ask about a structural problem...knock on wood) I'd go with either Crescent Museum Rag, Rising Museum, or Bainbridge Alpharag. There's also Peterboro Museum, but they only have three colours and I believe they're very limited when it comes to suppliers.

Ultimately, I vote for museum board myself; I mean, what if the zeolites revolt, like mitochondria?

Yes, digressing.
 
Well, if the zeolites do revolt, there are still enough free radicals out there to round them up and have them executed. That's a long and bitter rivalry between the two.
 
Cavalier said:
The Smithsonian uses Rising, according to the Legion Paper rep.
Click to expand...

U.S. Federal Government agencies have tested and approved several brands of matboard. In addition to the fine products made by Rising/Legion, other brands such as Peterboro, Strathmore, Crescent, Bainbridge, and probably some others have been approved.

Ultimately, I vote for museum board myself; I mean, what if the zeolites revolt, like mitochondria?
Click to expand...

I'm sure you were joking, but for the record, zeolites are not organisms and they could not revolt. Zeolites are molecular micro-chamber, passive traps for contaminants that find their way into the protected environment. Questions about possible negative effects of zeolites have been seriously asked by some conservators, but as far as I know, there is no evidence that the zeolites could ever cause harm. On the contrary, the benefits of zeolites in framing boards are well known.

A preference for cotton matboards is, indeed, only a matter of preference. Usually, that translates to appreciation for the surface texture, cutting characteristics, softness/suppleness of the board's "feel", and other subjective evaluations.

By all accounts, matboards made of cotton alpha cellulose have no preservation advantage over matboards made of other types of alpha cellulose. Alpha cellulose from purified wood pulp is equally acceptable in all protective framing.
 
ive heard there are no such thing as zeolites, and that they were made up by bainbridge to sell their mats.

Peterboro's boards are made by the same company/ companies as bainbridges, and they don't have zeolites.
 
We are fortunate to have conservation quality four ply available in so many shades, sizes and thicknesses. To amplify what has been explained, lignin-free alpha cellulose, from wood and cotton are both safe and stable (the advantage that cotton linters have is that they are lignin-free as they come from the bole).
The molecular sieves (zeolites = alumina silicates) in the board are in the inner plys and will not touch the art. They will take up organic pollutants for many years and will not give the back, since the pollutants bond chemically to the interior of the zeolite. It is most important that the board be lignin-free and the concern about "acid-free" is less important.


Hugh
 
The improtant question is whether the board is lignin-free. Alpha cellulose that has been de-lignified performs fine and the advantage of the cotton linters is that cotton comes to us without lignin, from nature. The zeolites (alumna silicate molecular sieves) covalently bond with organic pollutants and will not re-emit them. They are in the interior plys of the board and can not touch the art. They are passive.

Hugh
 
Puppiesonacid: Peterboro and Bainbridge are two totally different boards; we carry both. Peterboro is closer to Artique in weight, rigidity and sturdiness; had you said Peterboro and Artique, I would have been searching for that (we need a snopes.com for framers.) But Peterboro and Bainbridge? Eh, I'd believe that when this frame turns purple, and smells like rainbow sherbet.

I always tell my family this: when posting, writing or arguing something as "there's no such thing" or "X is the same as Y", have sources ready, or at least where one has heard it.

Zeolites do exist -- they're also used in other applications, such as removing ammonia from water in fish tanks and whatnot. (Used to work in a pet shop, and owned a few aquariums in my time.) Me treating them as organisms in an earlier post was just my way of being silly. :D
 
Puppiesonacid said:
ive heard there are no such thing as zeolites, and that they were made up by bainbridge to sell their mats....Peterboro's boards are made by the same company/ companies as bainbridges, and they don't have zeolites.
Click to expand...

Matboard companies assemble top paper, core paper, and bottom paper into finished matboards. It's no secret that the core papers come from a limited number of sources, and I guess all of them supply multiple matboard makers.

It would be no surprise to learn that Peterboro, Bainbridge, and maybe others get core papers from the same source(s). It's possible that the supplier makes special core paper for Bainbridge. Or, perhaps it's all the same core paper, and the zeolites are only in the bottom paper of ArtCare boards. In any case, the answers to those questions probably would be proprietary.

In recent years Bainbridge and Crescent have significantly changed the composition of their boards. Probably other matboard makers have, too, but I don't use the others often enough to tell. There are obvious differences in the way the newer boards feel, the way they cut, and the way they warp -- sometimes right out of the box. We may never know exactly what the major makers have done so far, or what they may do may do in the future to contain costs and keep our prices competitive.

That said, it might be tempting for some of them to use more recycled fibers instead of virgin fibers, or to blow more air into their slurry to make the boards lighter-weight, less-dense, and thereby cheaper. I guess they would be investigating all possible cost-saving measures.
 
Speaking of changes to matboards, last year I received a box of flaw boards (maker will remain anonymous) that were beautifully-finished alpha cellulose from cotton. No flaws were visible, but when I tried to cut a mat out of it, the board seemed noticeably lighter, and it literally shredded, leaving "pills" on the surface. I thought at first I was using a terribly dull matcutter blade, but no. There was no way to cut it cleanly -- I tried with at least four different kinds of blades & angles.

My guess is that I was seeing the result of the maker's attempt to fluff the fibers, reduce the density, and thereby reduce cost. An experiment gone bad?
 
I'm just a lady writing in her bedroom who
doesn't even know what she's wearing to work today


darlin' you just gotta start your hardy/partying a lot earlier in the evenings---that allows you a good loooong nights sleep! :popc:
 
Bill: When I was in the Transformers fandom activelly, the only response for your post would be "WTCHOP?" or "What the CHOP?" or, as I will say it completely, "What in the name of Combat Hero Optimus Prime?"

I work with Bainbridge, Artique, Crescent, Peterboro and Rising mats on a regular basis, and have noticed differences as of recently of exactly what Jim was referring to: porous cores, not very sturdy, etc. Crescent had this problem on batches last year and the year before with their RagMats; however, the current batches have been simply wonderful to the point where I was singing "I Could Have Danced All Night" when I opened my matboard order. Chris over at Crescent was a huge help with that!

Rising also had an issue, mostly with their 402872 White -- again, flimsy, porous, cutting rough. I did get some new stock in recently and, where it had been better than before, it's still a little on the weak side to what it had been in the past.

Recently, Bainbridge's Alphamats have been losing rigidity; my rep was wonderful to take samples from our stock for comparison and analysis.

As I've stated, the only problem I've ever had with Artique was that I had two sheets of A4977 delaminate on me (the face paper peeled off) which was swiftly rectified; that was about three years ago, and since I haven't had any issue.

I haven't had Peterboro for long and we don't use too much of it compared to the others, but from what I've observed, they're holding rather well, similarly to Artique.
 
Jim Miller said:
By all accounts, matboards made of cotton alpha cellulose have no preservation advantage over matboards made of other types of alpha cellulose. Alpha cellulose from purified wood pulp is equally acceptable in all protective framing.
Click to expand...



I'm confused - I've read - and preached as a result - that alpha cellulose is alpha cellulose - it could be from cotton or it could be from wood - it's just that the wood alpha cellulose took longer to process because the cotton was free from lignin to start with.

Right?



preservator said:
To amplify what has been explained, lignin-free alpha cellulose, from wood and cotton are both safe and stable (the advantage that cotton linters have is that they are lignin-free as they come from the bole).
Click to expand...

preservator said:
Alpha cellulose that has been de-lignified performs fine and the advantage of the cotton linters is that cotton comes to us without lignin, from nature.
Click to expand...

So do cotton boards have an advantage over wood alpha cellulose boards or not - and ......

Does a wood alpha cellulose board with zeolites out-perform a cotton board without?

Is a cotton alpha cellulose board with zeolites as good as it gets?

Questions directed at qualified conservators - but all opinions welcome.
 
preservator said:
We are fortunate to have conservation quality four ply available in so many shades, sizes and thicknesses. To amplify what has been explained, lignin-free alpha cellulose, from wood and cotton are both safe and stable (the advantage that cotton linters have is that they are lignin-free as they come from the bole).
The molecular sieves (zeolites = alumina silicates) in the board are in the inner plys and will not touch the art. They will take up organic pollutants for many years and will not give the back, since the pollutants bond chemically to the interior of the zeolite. It is most important that the board be lignin-free and the concern about "acid-free" is less important.


Hugh
Click to expand...

There is no better source than Hugh for an opinion.
 
Once wood pulp has been processed to remove lignin, it is chemically identical to cotton fibers. So as Robo asked, yes, alpha cellulose is alpha cellulose.

The advantage to cotton is that is requires less processing than wood pulp, so that could certainly be seen as having less environmental impact. I suppose this would result in a lower cost if cotton cost less than the equivalent amount of wood.

Some framers prefer cotton because of the feel of the cut. A nice cotton board with a fresh blade is like cutting through warm butter. Also the long fibers create quite a strong board.

Alpha cellulose mats made from purified wood pulp contain fibers that are shorter due to the processing, but it also makes for a denser board. Some framers prefer the feel and cutting characteristics. When I was cutting mats on a manual cutter I loved cutting into Bainbridge mats.

Cotton mats with zeolites such as Bainbridge's AlphaRags are great, but from a preservation standpoint alpha cellulose is alpha cellulose.


Please keep in mind that I would never presume to speak for Hugh, so if corrects anything I have written I will happily accept his word as the final word.
 
Thanks Dave, I highly respect your input and Jim's - and others' too, but I was assuming that Hugh, being a conservator, was referring to an advantage from a conservation/preservation point of view; not an environmental/cost/feel of cut/etc one?
 
RoboFramer said:
I'm confused - I've read - and preached as a result - that alpha cellulose is alpha cellulose - it could be from cotton or it could be from wood - it's just that the wood alpha cellulose took longer to process because the cotton was free from lignin to start with.

Right?
Click to expand...

Right.

So do cotton boards have an advantage over wood alpha cellulose boards or not (?)
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure the advantage Hugh spoke about is in the cotton fibers at the start of the paper-making process, since other kinds of fibers require more processing. However, the resulting alpha cellulose matboards are interchangeable for framing purposes, and at the end of it, cotton boards have no particular advantage.

and ......Does a wood alpha cellulose board with zeolites out-perform a cotton board without?
Click to expand...

The zeolite additive generally is considered to be an advantage, because it helps neutralize chemical contaminants in a properly closed frame environment, if that performance is needed. It isn't always needed, in which case it would be useless -- but who among us could determine when it is needed in a particular frame package?

Some conservators and framers believe that the simplest composition suitable for the purpose would be the best; whether the topic is matboard, adhesives, or other chemical concoctions within the frame package. These folks might prefer to avoid all additives, such as zeolites and alkaline buffers in boards; preservatives in adhesives; et al, unless there is a specific need for them.

As far as I know, zeolites are not reactive with anything typically encountered in a frame, but we can't say the same for the high-alkaline buffers that are also commonly added, because some framed items might be sensitive to a high-alkaline environment. That's why we have un-buffered boards available.

Like Dave, I only share my own understanding and invite correction from others more knowledgeable. Is there a chemist in the house?
 
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