Opinions Wanted ARGH what a customer says.

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FrameMakers

FrameMakers

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Mar 20, 2001
Posts
7,395
Loc
Powell, OH
I just had a woman pick up a finished job. She is an artist that Hobby Lobby sent over to cut down an OPPS frame that she purchased for $25. I did the job and charged her $20 to cut the frame down and a normal fitting charge.

She then asks about my printing prices (which are very competitive with national labs like WHCC and Bay etc). She also asked about photographing her canvases and my charge for that. I give her a guestamite upon which she told me that where she is getting them done now does her image capture and printing for what I charge for printing alone.

She then follows up that it would have been cheaper for her to have just framed the job at HL with what she paid me and the cost of the opps frame. Of course it would have been cheaper if she had just had me frame it up from the beginning too.

So how do you respond to someone like this?

I try to price aggressively but at the same time maintain my margins.
I don't necessarily want to be the cheapest place in town. But at the same time I hate seeing people leave due to price. I guess I just needed to vent and I have to remember that she is an artist, and we all know how cheap many of them can be.
 
You can try to be all things to all people. I try to be many of the most profitable things to many people.


As far as what I would have said to the customer, it probably would have been along the lines of what you already said in your post: "it would have been cheaper if she had just had me frame it up from the beginning too"
 
Not much you could have done differently. She wanted cheap, ended up paying more than she had expected and now it's your fault of course....
She should have done the right thing, right away.

I think I would have calculated how much a properly done frame would have cost her if she had come to you in the first place; give her the quote in hand and that is that.

As for the printing; what she said might not be what she really gets 'at the other place'. But at this point, she needed to vent and you were available....

So now we're here for you. Vent away!
 
So are you willing to try to chase her down so that you can lose money on her orders?

I have bent over backwards to meet people's unrealistically low price expectations. Then I have them bring in stuff that was framed elsewhere, and cost more than they whined to me about. I have found that if you get a name as the cheap place to go then they'll take their "good artwork" somewhere else to get it framed better than they think you are capable of.
 
Workarounds to save money (like cutting down a cheap readymade) generally are going to cost more than doing it right the first time, if you charge a fair price for your services.
 
I find that usually if they say they can get it scanned AND printed for the printing alone, then they are trying to get you to lower your prices. It's just a ploy.
I congratulate them on finding such a great bargain and then move on to something else. Right now, i have one woman who is trying to work on me about me doing her printing but "it's so much cheaper with that other place she orders on line from." Yet she is showing me how she isn't happy with the samples they sent her. (I agree, they aren't very good.)
So, i'm supposed to do it for their price only better?

What'r ya gonna do? Some people are better going somewhere else.

Someone somewhere once said, If no one leaves your store because of price, then you aren't charging enough.
 
Bob Doyle said:
I have found that if you get a name as the cheap place to go then they'll take their "good artwork" somewhere else to get it framed better than they think you are capable of.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is much danger for any of us getting that kind of a reputation. I also wonder the validity of that statement considering some of the high end art that I have had to repair that came from the craft stores.

Many if not most customers seem think of us as just selling a commodity anymore. It didn't used to be this way.
 
Bob Doyle said:
I have found that if you get a name as the cheap place to go then they'll take their "good artwork" somewhere else to get it framed better than they think you are capable of.
Click to expand...


I disagree to some extent. Yes, some shops are "cheapy" shops, and those people will steer clear of for the "good stuff". But if a shop is a nice shop which also has more "budget framing" as a side, then I believe they will go there for everything.

E.g. Myself and a number of other local framers here in town have all heard the same thing from our customers. "I bring the everyday framing to Ben Franklins, but I bring the 'good things' to you". A romantic thought, but A) the 'everyday things' are our bread and butter, and B) they don't bring us the 'good things' when they are used to going into that BB (especially given the false pretense of a sale).

I'd say that being a "cheapy" store is a business of its own, and that certainly would scare off "good artwork" frame customers. But catering to mid-high end, and also offering budget friendly selections is different.

However, this customer seems to be looking for the "cheapy" store. I wouldn't worry much about her. There ARE more fish in the sea.
 
FrameMakers said:
Many if not most customers seem think of us as just selling a commodity anymore. It didn't used to be this way.
Click to expand...

True that.
I believe the craft stores' mass marketing and everyday discounting strategy has been the main cause of the "commodity-ization" of custom framing, but it's not the only cause. If it were, maybe we could fix that.

People are more and more accepting of the throw-away philosophy of manufacturing. Rather than make a product worthy of repairing and keeping, which would cost more, manufacturers are designing cheaper products of all kinds that are not worth repairing. Furniture, appliances, electronics, clothes, shoes, and production "wall decor" come to mind.
 
People never seem to get that what might seem like an economizing strategy will usually involve more labor, and therefor added expense. Kinda like driving 10 miles to save a nickel on a can of peas.
:nuts: Rick
 
My Dad always said, "The best is the cheapest in the long run" I've always thought he was onto something there.

Jeff K
 
Look you are running a business not a repair shop for the cheapies that went to the cheap place to buy a cheap frame.
Do as Jay Goltz says about running your business profitably. Say good by to the customers that cost you money and hello to those that are more than willing to keep you in business and making a profit. Your prices are what keeps you in business not the customers comparison to "online" prices.
Tell them when they are ready to accept your terms to come back and don't feel bad about letting them go out the door.
 
As to an OPPS frame I agree with Jerry but I love Ron's answer :)

As a side note my mechanic is a used car dealer. He loves fixing people's cars because he has a lot of great used cars to sell people. His best used car customers are the people he fixes cars for. Why? Because they already come to him and know and like him.

I don't mind fixing OPPS frames because the customer has me on their footpath, they come in my door, they know me. Sure your customer may be bringing their everyday work to a BB, but when they go to pick it up they may "save themselves a trip" and bring in their "good art" since they are already there anyways....

I like the repairs because it brings people in. I don't do cheapy pricing, I try to do as honest as I can pricing. ie it's never free but I don't often make a lot on the job :) I want them to come to my shop, to bring me their everyday art and their good art. The only time I want them in a BB frameshop is to get batting for a quilt :)

The real message of my first post was to say not to give away your labor as, just as I say to the artists, if you don't value your work why should the customer?
 
I simply tell them that the other place knows what kind of work they do and what it is worth and I know the kind of work I do and what it is worth. That sometimes worth is not in the visual but in the total value of the detail.
 
cjmst3k said:
E.g. Myself and a number of other local framers here in town have all heard the same thing from our customers. "I bring the everyday framing to Ben Franklins, but I bring the 'good things' to you".
Click to expand...

I've never had a customer say this as such, but that's one of the reasons why we have our value line: "Oh, well then we can do your everyday stuff for less than the BB charges, AND we can give your good things the care they deserve! How's THAT for one-stop shopping?"
 
Rick Granick said:
People never seem to get that what might seem like an economizing strategy will usually involve more labor, and therefor added expense. Kinda like driving 10 miles to save a nickel on a can of peas.
:nuts: Rick
Click to expand...

I think this is where the "Can't You Just..." sentiment comes from. Most of the time when a customer says this they believe they are offering a more economical alternative, not realizing the hidden costs associated with their proposal (e.g. "Can't you just re-use the glass?" Uh, it costs me less to haul out a fresh sheet of glass than to clean 20 years' worth of crud off of yours...)
 
The former owner did a needlepoint of that quote. It's framed and hangs by my front counter.
More than one customer has commented on it.
 
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