AP article in the newspaper

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southernmoon

southernmoon

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Posts
110
Loc
Charleston, SC
This morning as I was reading the Sunday paper, I came across the following article in the Home and Garden section. http://www.onthehouse.com/wp/20050221

Their web site gives this information: James Carey and Morris Carey, known as the Carey Bros., are nationally-recognized experts on home building and renovation. They share their 50+ years of experience as award-winning, licensed contractors with millions of people nationwide through a weekly radio program and syndicated newspaper column both titled On The House.

I'm curious as to what ya'll think about the brothers.

Carol
 
Well the "Brothers" haven't been price shopping at my shop!!

"...over $3,000.00 or more!!" I don't think so....

Stuff like this in newspapers and especially those "home redo" shows on tv are so unreal....
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Jerks. Thanks for the link. Maybe if they get a few hundred angry framers telling them the average cost of framing, they will pull their collective heads out of their bib overalls and pay attention.
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Jeez, first Martha now the Bozo brothers.
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Our trade is not the only one affected by this kind of thing.

We are about to have our kitchen totally remodeled, which is expected to take a couple of months or more start to finish. I (jokingly) asked the contractor why he could'nt do the whole job in one to three days like they do on those renovation shows on T.V.

He failed to see the humor.

Can't say that I blame him.

-Mike.
 
Love the clever combinations ... museum glass and dry leaves!

"Glass really is important. Not the regular kind -- the museum quality kind; the kind that filters out ultraviolet light that fades things.

Try using a material for your border that accentuates the picture. You can use dried leaves for a landscape "
 
Is there a difference between craft paper and kraft paper. I always thougt craft paper was what the little kids used in elementary school.
 
Great. Give the piece about 3 years, and they'll be crawlin' for quality framing...... assuming there's anything left inside that catastrophe to frame...


(Don't forget that wonderful cardboard backing ....... sheesh.)
 
"Even if you do not intend to dry mount your photo, be sure to back the artwork with mounting cardboard."

Ya, and by the way they can send me all those $3,000 jobs!
 
I think this is a perfect example of a few things.

First and probaly most importantly "A LITTLE knowledge is a Dangerious thing." and these guys obviously have very little tue knowledge of what they are speaking about ) the already exmples of UV glass ove cardboard backings and "Carboard BORDERS" are just few proofs)

Next it is just such partialy correct staements by people like these and some of the wham-bam thank you mam BB that make the consumeing public think REAL FRAMERS are selling them unnecessary extras,while making a bundle.

But even more important is the need that shows for us to EXPLAIN EVERY detail we do and why instaed of Just assumeing "they know what they want" and can TRUST the person doing the work.You'd trust thaes huys wouldn't you? But he Consumeing public does and probaly did.That is why EDUCATEING our customers about EVERY thing we do is so very important. Otherwise it won't be long and peopel like these uniformed hucksters will be accepted as the consumers saviors and we willbe the "Rip off artist"

I think as once before we should all write the news paper and point out the errors thses guys have published. In fact i think we shoild notifie every industry group and individual and ask for a retraction and equal time.
BUDDY
 
The following is a copy of my correspondence via e-mail to the Carey Brothers:

"I found your recent article "Frame Your Pictures For Posterity" to be full of inaccuracies - The opening paragraph that states that custom framing "could easily cost $3,000 or more" is WAY OFF the mark. I would strongly recommend that you contact a couple of independent frame shops in your area to get a more realistic figure. Also, your terminology of the materials used in a custom framing package ("envelope") is seriously out-of-date. The majority of reputable framers use archival methods in servicing their customers.
I would also recommend that you contact the following organizations for additional information:
http://www.ppfa.com
http://www.artfacts.org
http://www.artandframingcouncil.org
Thank you"
Michael McLaughlin

Maybe if others "rattle their cage" a little bit (nicely Baer
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) - they would see the error of their ways and re-write their column?
 
Thanks Mike you are a faster and better writer than I . However I am trying to compose a letter that deals with all the inaccurisces I see and I have transposed the original Post by Carol and my reply to HH. In a hope to get them and maybe the PPFA to respond.However Carol do you have the name and address of the newspaper ,and any web address also.
BUDDY
 
The Carey brothers write a column for AP Weekly Features. Their web site is www.onthehouse.com. They also list a phone number 800-737-2474, you can call them every Saturday from 9am- 1pm.

Carol
 
I emailed them right after reading the original post on this thread. Didn't save it though so I can't share what I actually said. If I get a response, I'll be surprised.
 
I have listened to them on the radio. They seem to know a LOT about a lot of things but they sure don't know much about framing! Even my least knowledgeable customers seem to be familiar with the term "mat" or "matte" (as they often spell it!). Borders or masks? Come on!

It will be interesting indeed to see if they offer any response to their mail.
 
Good grief. As if it isn't hard enough to get folks to do what they should for their artwork.
This seems to be a good lesson in "people that know a little about a lot of things"..

I will add to the pile of emails and maybe even snail mails that they receive on this misinformation they've so willingly shared with Joe Public. Hope it's a huge wave of protest from framers. Or at least a huge wave of actual facts/education in framing!
 
For immediate release:

030305_6-million-dollar-man.jpg


Did you know that a single, high-quality "man," assembled to to carry out work for the government agency that rebuilt him - the Office of Strategic Investigation (later known as the Office of Scientific Intelligence), could easily cost $6,000,000* or more? By "man," we mean the frame, the nuclear-powered limbs and the bionic eye.

*In 1974 dollars.

Fortunately, you don't have to spend anywhere near those amounts to get a man. All you really need to do is read on . . .

(To be continued . . .)
 
It annoyed me enough that I wrote as well. Hopefully this isn't too far off the mark:

Dear Carey Brothers,

I was disapointed by the misinformation in your recent picture framing article. If someone follows this advice, you could be financially and legally liable for ruining their artwork. If it were me, I would do a followup with better advice.

Cardboard is the very LAST thing you want anywhere near your artwork. It's highly acidic and will "burn" the art.

Dry mounting should rarely be done, because it may ruin any value the art has. It's a service we offer, but only with the customer's expressed (written) permission, after we educate and explain what it means. There are some brand new technologies that can make this semi reversible, with special materials, but it's still something which is frowned upon and used as a last resort. The heat from the dry mount press will ruin many items immediately, including some inkjet photos and posters. Some items will turn black in the drymount press and a knowledge of materials in use should be considered.

The glass most framers use isn't museum glass, but Conservation Clear. The CC has uv blocking properties of over 98%, without the higher price of Museum glass. The UV blocking CC glass isn't expensive and is used by over 95% of our customers. Museum glass is used on VERY special pieces only, and is a premium product.

Mats should be "acid free" and made of rag material. The mats often sold in craft stores are labelled "acid free" but they simply have a ph buffered layer over acidic material, and the acidic material can seep out within 6 or so months to turn the bevel/core yellow. It can also provide acid burn to the art itself. Many of the craft store mats are simply paper/cardboard and should never be used with art. The difference is very important.

As far as it costing over $3000 for custom framing, that number is extremely inflated. Most shops offer full framing that starts at about $35, and works up from there depending on the size, frame, and glass type. The average order is usually under $150, complete. I think it gives a damaging and unprofessional reflection of our industry to insinuate a $3000 price tag to frame a single photo.

There are times when it's best to leave it to a professional. I'd cringe if this kind of misadvice was given if your article was about electrical wiring, plumbing, or something that could cause bodily harm and injury.

I hope this is taken in the positive spirit it was intended. If something like this is done in the future, I suggest consulting with a professional, such as a certified picture framer(r), the F.A.C.T.S. standards www.artfacts.org, or the Professional Picture Framer's Association www.ppfa.com.

Best regards,
Mike Labbe
Get The Picture Framing & Gallery
Rhode Island
www.getthepictureframing.com
Click to expand...
 
(continued following that brief commercial interruption)

The element that causes a "man" to be expensive is the bionics. Barring that particular cost, the rest of the row is truly "easy to hoe." All you have to do is to know where to look and what to buy.

Here are the things you really need (according to recent SuperBowl ads.) Two-out-of-three is probably sufficient:

--a large chest.

--an alluring giggle.

--a six-pack of Miller lite.


Beer really is important. Not the regular kind -- the lite kind; the kind that filters out any native intelligence in the American male. Good beer will distort the image and make any female easier to look at.

(to be continued)
 
Like your letter Mike.

I generally use the term "conservation quality materials" rather than "acid free".

Might I sent off a copy of yours to the brothers.
 
I understand your righteous indignation over this column, but I would contend that most of the misinformation about picture framing comes from within our industry.

It's easy to imagine, reading The Grumble and going to trade shows and PPFA chapter meetings, that most framers are diligent, educated and knowledgeable about conservation materials and practices. While I have no hard evidence to the contrary, I don't believe this is true.

I don't think that framers in general are dishonest but I do believe that the majority don't know and they don't know that they don't know.

I applaud those of you who are contacting the brothers directly with corrections and I apologize that I view their column primarily as an opportunity for parody.

I just can't help myself.
 
Ron, perhaps you could delve into the notion of dark lighting or poor eyesight having an effect on the "target". I myself utilized the "dark room" technique and here I am happily married fifteen years later.

Seriously, I was speechless. I saw the same kind of treatment several years (fourish) ago on Oprah. She had some chump on the show explaining how much money you could save by buying a cheap frame and using hot glue to stick down your cherished keepsakes. No discussion on archival qualities or reversibility. Very unfortunate.
 
Absolutely appalling....yet not surprising. :(
 
"Other than a reasonably priced frame ($25 to $200), here are the elements you will want to consider to ensure best presentation and long-lasting quality:"

Okay, given that precious little tidbit, I wanna know what I am doing wrong that I can't get that $2800 for matting, glass and backing that I quite OBVIOUSLY should be getting....
 
Originally posted by Ron Eggers:
I don't think that framers in general are dishonest but I do believe that the majority don't know and they don't know that they don't know.
Click to expand...
Ron, you would make Donald Rumsfeld very proud.

-Mike.
 
There are unknown, unknowns. That is to say that there are things that we know we don't know.

That one mike? It does sound like Ron.
 
at least be sure to use silicone or rubber bumpers at the two bottom rear corners of the frame to reduce movement.
Click to expand...
I wonder why they didn't specifically suggest using the brown ones for a complete quality framing job.
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Jay, exactly.

-Mike.
 
Jay: That quote is not from Ron, but from none other than Donald Rumsfeld. Check it out:
:cool: Rick

The Poetry of D.H. Rumsfeld
Recent works by the secretary of defense.
By Hart Seely
Posted Wednesday, April 2, 2003, at 10:03 AM

Slate has compiled a collection of Rumsfeld's poems, bringing them to a wider public for the first time. The poems that follow are the exact words of the defense secretary, as taken from the official transcripts on the Defense Department Web site.

The Unknown

As we know,
There are known knowns.
There are things we know we know.
We also know
There are known unknowns.
That is to say
We know there are some things
We do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns,
The ones we don't know
We don't know.

—Feb. 12, 2002, Department of Defense news briefing
 
Not to be jokeing but when i hear"unknown unknowns,
The ones we don't know " i can completely agree. My biggest problems have often been caused byt the fact that i didn't know what needed to be done and i didn't realize I didn't know so I contiued doing what i erroneiously thought was correct
BUDDY
 
Ron and danny boy ;
You are both in trouble especially since it is I you are glad can understand. Normally no one understands me so what does that say about you two?LOL

By the way danny boy my wife's grandmother had a Chiuaha (SP? But you know those small Mexican dogs?)who was One of her "FAMILY" he was solid white and his name was Danny Boy so you can't imagine what I see in my mind's eye when you post.But even he didn't always agree with me ,so maybe you have hope.LOL
BUDDY
 
I also sent a 3 page note to the Bros.

With all the email they are getting from Framers in general and TFG in particular ,I can't help but wonder if we have any New registrants or Lurkers with the last name Carey.

But then they couldn't alreay have registered ,otherwise they'd have known better than to suggest 99% of that article. Since they probaly aren't register yet I wouldn't be surprised if we soon did see them under some alias.It could seriously improve their information.LOL
BUDDY
 
Their lack of knowledge about terminology and generally accepted framing practices is evidence that they did no homework, but wrote the article based on their own incorrect, unsupported assumptions.

These guys may know everything about remodeling & construction, but it's painfully obvious that they don't know anything about picture framing.

I say it's irresponsible for a writer to publish advice without knowledge. I would not be confident publishing advice about replacing kitchen countertops. But if I were inclined to do so, I would at least become familiar with what's involved.
 
Maybe we should all start calling for "Advice" from them on next saturdays show. Maybe they'll Get The Picture
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(Sorry Mike)
 
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