another Zip question

B. Newman

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Posts
4,855
Loc
Kodak, Tn. USA
I do most all my back ups with a cd, but I use the zip for my Quickbooks since that's what I started with and what my CPA uses.

Today, QB called for a back up, I did everything as normal, then pushed the little button to get my zip back, and it wouldn't come out.

I pressed it in again (as if I was reinserting it) and then hit the button again - nothing.

I went to my computer and looked. Yeah, it recognized it and it opened just fine, but it still won't pop out.

I can just almost get ahold of it, (and could with needlenose pliers) but I'm afraid to just pull it out.

Advice?

betty
 
Call your CPA and see if it will be OK to give him a CD. Pratically all computers build in the last 4 years have a CD or DVD. His computer should have a CD drive.


Then trash the Zip drive.
 
My, my, there seems to be some Zip hostility on The Grumble.

If you have a Zip icon on your desktop (an option when you installed the software) right-click on it and choose 'eject' from the menu.

If you don't have the icon on your desktop, open 'My Computer' and right click on THAT Zip icon.

For some reason, this usually works when the mechanical eject does not.
 
Thank you Ron. When I get to the shop tomorrow I will try that.

As for the other replies. Thank you for your (sorta) help, Jerome. I will in fact do that in the future, but that doesn't help me today.

I asked a simple question, I did not ask for a commentary that said, "duh, I don't have any idea how to help a fellow grumbler, so I'll just imply that they are stupid."

Betty
 
Betty, I don't think he or I ment to imply that you were stupid. Personally, I think Jerome was trying to do you a favor by being direct and sincere. And obviously I agreed with him.

I learned a long time ago that Zip drives should never, ever be the sole back-up of anything that's remotely important. Jerome might have been burned enough times like I have to be vehemently opposed to doing anything with a Zip drive other than hitting it repeatedly with a hammer.

Friends don't let friends use Zip drives. Simple as that.
 
I was going to try and just answer Betty's question without editorializing, but I can see that's not going to be possible.

I have had several Zip drives die in the line of duty. As it happens, they were all the old parallel port external drives. I have never lost a single bit (byte?) of data on a Zip disc and I use them every single day. I'm not saying it can't happen - just that it hasn't happened so far.

I HAVE lost about 700 megs of photo files on a CD. The files were moved to a CD, which in turn was unreadable and unrecoverable. I learned to 'copy, verify and delete' instead of 'move' files to a CD. It's a pain.

Based only on my own experience, a CD burner appears to be more reliable than a Zip drive, with respect to hardware but the Zip media, while pricey, has never given me any trouble at all.
 
I do, in fact, "double back up." My QB "asks" for a back up every 5 times it's opened. It's just simple to throw in the zip and hit OK. (My zip is internal.) Everything else is done on CD.

I backup EVERYTHING quarterly, and important stuff monthly. (Everything includes my writings of which I also have hard copies of.) All on CDs.

We have 4 computers in the house and none of them have a zip drive. I just had a simple question that I thought I might get some help with.

Steve, I just hope that your "real" customers get a more empathetic response when they have a problem.

Betty
 
Betty, again based on just my own experience - I think the internal Zip drives are much more reliable than the external drives. I can't imagine why that would be true, but it seems to be in my experience.

BTW, I've had two external CD burners that rarely worked reliably and I've had little trouble with internal burners (except for the one I destroyed with a blast of canned dust-off.)

I think Jerry and Steve are sincere in their disdain of Zip drives. That wasn't your question here, though.
 
Steve, I just hope that your "real" customers get a more empathetic response when they have a problem.
Ouch. Really, if you read the previous Zip thread from a couple weeks ago, you'll see I was just happy to find another fellow member in my anti-Zip crusade. Most of the time I usually post with links to help people solve their problems, like this or perhaps this. I've been in the framing industry for 13 years, but I've been a geek much longer than that and I really do enjoy helping people out.

And I've got plenty of empathy for you - I was hit by the "click of death" twice. Once with my first zip drive and then again with my "Epson branded" Zip drive. The second time was the proverbial straw for me, as it ate 3 of my zips before I realized what happened. One of those unfortunately had my assignment that was due in two hours - stuff I had been working the previous 14 hours straight to finish. Cost me an entire letter grade for having to turn it in a day late. So that's why I hate zips, and when I see people still using them I just cringe.

So again, I apologize if I was a little too crass in my initial reaction.
 
I too have been placed without backup when I thought that a Zip drive was doing what it did not actually do. Technology is always changing, mostly for the better.

In terms of this thread. B. Newman started out by saying that most of her backups were with a CD that was working. The Zip is not working. A deadline for the CPA to do his thing could or can be handled if he will simple accept a CD backup. My comment was only to ask, and if he or she will accept the CD the deadline is handled.

The comment to trash the Zip is from;
1. prior history
2. documented problem with their system and a recall of the product. This included corrupted files reported as being copied properly.
3. limited file size by todays standards
4. slower speed.
 
Lighten up people!


Yea, zip drives can be flaky - but they served a purpose in their time. (before cd burners) Theyre $10 ebay items these days.

When I used to use the zip drives, I had the same experience as you. For me, the solution was to simply unplug the power cord to the unit and then plug it back in. "resetting the brain" in this way often caused it to behave normally again. Some times they just get temporarily stupid. (much like myself)

Of course, it probably works fine the next day because it was powered off overnight.

Mike
 
I've already taken care of this QTR with the CPA, so that was not an issue. (Sorry, I'll try to make myself more clear next time.)

As I said, my zip is internal, so there is no "unplug and replug" to it. I did think about rebooting, but was afraid to do that with the disc in place.

I had just hoped for some straightforward advice (like Ron gave) and to let it go at that. I did read the earlier thread to see if this might have come up there. And yes, I knew Steve hated zips. I just figured that there would be no need for him to reply since I had asked for help.

I don't care how much I disagree with someone if I can't add something constructive, I simply don't answer. For instance, I personally detest metal frames, I hate everything about them, but when someone has a problem with a metal frame, I don't jump in and crticize their choice of using them.

As anyone who reads any of my posts will know that "customer service" is one of my "hot buttons." When you sign your name with a vendor name attached to it, you become a representative of that company. (In my opinion) you are more responsible for what you say. Is that fair, no, but that's the way it is.

Probably just the excitment of the moment caused Steve to react the way he did. I would just hope that he would think twice about being critical, and look to be more constructive. Ya never know when a "prospective customer" might be lurking...

Remember what your Mother used to say, "If you can't say something good, don't say anything at al!" ;)

Speaking of Mothers, I have no idea of how old Steve is, but I'm probably safe in saying that I'm old enough to be his Mother. Steve, I really don't mean to be too hard on you. I hope you just take this as some friendly "motherly" advice. Think how others are going to perceive your remarks before you make them. You'll do fine...

Betty

[ 10-28-2003, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: B. Newman ]
 
Rebooting the system with media (CD Zip etc) will not harm the machine. It might however tell you that it is trying to "start up" with the media and it is not working, it should be removed. Try to remove it after the reboot.
 
Thanks for saying it as I meant to


Also note that a simple restart may not suffice. The "power" should be interrupted to the drive (internal or external). The only way to do this with an internal is to do a full shut down so the power goes off. Then power it back on. (versus restart which just reloads the software without turning off the power to the components)

Mike
 
In the past, when I have accidently restarted my computer with a floppy in the drive, it asks me to remove the disc and will not restart until I do. Would a power down work the same way when I go to restart it? If it asks for the zip disc to be taken out, and I can't, then what do I do? I'm afraid to power it off, afraid I can't get it going again. At least now, the only thing out of commission is the zip drive. (Which I SELDOM use anyway...)

I did try clicking on the eject, but nothing. I even tried backing up my QB again and then hitting eject, still nothing.

Gotta run. Will check back later today.

Betty
 
Hi Betty,

When a computer is turned on, it will usually scan each of the "boot devices" and attempt to load if media(disk) is found. Most computers will first check the floppy disk, then the cd, and finally the hard drive. This is why the floppy or cd shouldn't have anything inserted when powering up. In the case of the zip drive, most computers don't consider it as a boot device. It's highly unlikely to mind if something is in that drive.

If you run into problems, don't hesitate to call. Be glad to help!

Mike
 
Betty,

If all of the above suggestions fail, there is still hope.

With internal ZIP drives there is a tiny hole on the front of the unit which will accept an unfurled paper clip similar to the Mac users “emergency eject” release on the old floppy disk drives.

Unfortunately, this hole is not accessible from the outside of your computer; you’ve got to pop the hood on your computer (shut it off first, of course). Remove the screws that hold it down to the chassis. You should <u>not </U>have to remove the cables that connect it, though. Once the ZIP drive is free and you can see the front of the unit, gently insert the end of straightened paper clip into this hole. This will release the catch that holds the ZIP disk in the drive. The disk should pop out.

Just reverse the process to reassemble the drive, close the chassis cover, and hope that the disk doesn’t become jammed again.

Don’t pay too much attention to the anti-ZIP folks above.
I have both a CD burner and ZIP installed on my Mac. There is a use for both.
 
Speaking of Mothers, I have no idea of how old Steve is, but I'm probably safe in saying that I'm old enough to be his Mother. Steve, I really don't mean to be too hard on you. I hope you just take this as some friendly "motherly" advice. Think how others are going to perceive your remarks before you make them. You'll do fine...
Interesting... I see a trend here. My own mom reacted the same way when she told me she was having a problem with her Mac and I told her to dump it and buy a real computer. Hmm... ;) My Dad of course got in trouble for just agreeing with me.

Remember what your Mother used to say, "If you can't say something good, don't say anything at al!"
Well, I think it's ok to do so if you make sure to follow it up with something constructive or self-deprecating humor, or even that weird talk-about-yourself-in-third-person thing that Less does. And a token smiley... :cool:

At least I didn't pull a Peter Ackerman and say something like "True professional framers know how to back up their files.." (duck)
 
Betty, the reason your PC will not restart normally with a floppy disk in the drive is because most of us have the CMOS set up to look first to the floppy for startup files, then to the hard drive. (You might also have it set up to look to a CD drive.) You do this so that, in the event of a problem with the hard drive, you can start with a "startup" disk or CD and diagnose the problem. If the floppy in the drive doesn't contain startup files, the PC won't boot and you need to remove the floppy and try again.

It's unlikely that your PC is set up to look for startup files on a Zip disk, so it won't care whether there's a disk in the drive or not. I keep a disk in my POS computer all the time.

If the right-click and eject strategy didn't work, power down your PC completely (as suggested) and wait a minute before starting it up. This will cut the power to the Zip drive, along with everything else.

If that doesn't work, there may be a mechanical problem, though not one I've encountered in my years of Zip use.

Edit: In the time it took me to deal with the three people who came in (in the middle of writing this) several other Grumblers answered the question better than I did.

Next time, I'll lock the door first.

[ 10-28-2003, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: Ron Eggers ]
 
Guy’s

What’s the story with MP3 for back up……….yes yes I know I of all people should have some idea about this.

Steve

Love your attitude…….you would get on great in Ireland…….I must have missed something…..but for the life of me I cannot figure out what is eating Betty……care to educate me Betty…..Oh BTW save the lecture…..just enlighten me.

Rgs

Dermot
 
This is like Chevrolet vs. Ford.
Betty asked a question. All she wanted was an answer, or, hopefully some help, or suggestions. It didn't appear, from her original question that she was concerned over PC vs. Mac, or ZIP vs. CD.
Give the girl a break. If you know how to help her, fine. If you don't, but think she's dumb for using ZIP drives, start another thread, in my opinion. Unfortunately, she got some of both...

[ 10-29-2003, 06:54 AM: Message edited by: CharlesL ]
 
What’s the story with MP3 for back up……….yes yes I know I of all people should have some idea about this.
Well, what are your ideas, Dermot? Spit 'em out!

I was under the impression that iPods were just for the terminally cool, which, of course, would eliminate me from ever using one. :D
 
From Dermot:
Love your attitude…….you would get on great in Ireland…….
Yeah, I love Ireland. I only got to spend three days there but I absolutely loved it. My wife is from Essex, and I think next time we do holiday over there we'll spend three days in England and 3 weeks in Ireland..


What’s the story with MP3 for back up
I'm not sure what you really mean here either. If you're asking about the proper way to back-up MP3 audio files, I'm not sure there's best answer here. My problem is that I have too many now - about 20 gigs worth at work and 10 at home, so about the only thing I can reasonably back up all these files to is another hard-drive.

And if you think that's alot (maybe not if you're currently a college student), another guy I used to work with had over 100 gigs, that's an average of 10,000 MP3 files. Probably about 6 months straight of uninterrupted music. :D
 
http://news.com.com/2100-1041-5097699.html?part=dht&tag=ntop

Lexar joins the MP3 party with new player
Last modified: October 27, 2003, 12:51 PM PST
By Ed Frauenheim
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

Lexar Media on Monday joined the crowded field of companies selling MP3 players, but it is pitching its product as a data-storage device first and a music player second.
Lexar, which makes a variety of silicon-chip-based flash memory products, said its flash-based JumpDrive Music device will be available at retail locations nationwide in November.
The gadget connects to computers through a universal serial bus (USB) connection and has a capacity of either 128MB or 256MB. That's room enough to store about two to four hours of music, or the data equivalent of 88 or 176 floppy disks, respectively, according to the company. The 128MB product is slated to cost $89.99 and the 256MB version is expected to sell for $159.99.
But don't expect to find the JumpDrive Music device in the portable music player section of Circuit City. "We are encouraging our retailers to put it in the storage section rather than the MP3 section," Lexar spokeswoman Kim Evans said.
Evans said Lexar is aiming the device at "young, on-the-go consumers" such as students, who might use it to transport documents back and forth to school, but listen to music en route.
Lexar joins a growing number of companies offering portable digital music players. These include computer makers that are trying to break into the consumer electronics market. Apple has the disk-drive-based iPod, and Dell on Monday launched a disk-drive-based portable music player. Gateway also has MP3 players for sale.
Lexar is not the only competitor to say that its device can do more than just hold music files. Dell says its "Dell DJ" product also serves as a digital voice recorder or a way to back up critical data. Gateway's 256MB and 128MB digital music players also offer digital voice recording and data storage.
Dell's 15GB MP3 player will sell for $249, while a 20GB version will sell for $329, according to the company. Gateway's 256MB player lists for $169.99 on the Gateway Web site, while its 128MB player lists for $129.99.


And..... Dell unveils MP3 player

http://news.com.com/2100-1041_3-5097266.html?tag=fd_nbs_ent

Dell unveils MP3 player
Last modified: October 27, 2003, 6:49 AM PST
By Ed Frauenheim
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

update Continuing its push into consumer electronics, Dell on Monday announced a disk drive-based MP3 player and details of a partnership with music download company Musicmatch.
The Dell Digital Jukebox music player, or "Dell DJ," and accompanying software will be available through Dell's online music store starting Tuesday, according to the company. Dell says that the device, which comes with a capacity of either 15GB or 20GB, can play music continually for up to 16 hours.
The software, called "Dell Jukebox software powered by Musicmatch," provides a graphical interface between a computer and the Dell DJ device, as well as access to Musicmatch Downloads, a service selling songs for 99 cents.
Dell's 15GB MP3 player will sell for $249, while the 20GB version will sell for $329, according to the company.
The product is entering a crowded market. Consumers have a choice of a wide range of portable digital music players, which use data storage technologies including silicon chip-based flash memory. Also on Monday, Flash-maker Lexar Media announced a flash-based MP3 player called JumpDrive Music.
Meanwhile, Apple Computer has been working with a variety of other companies to boost the number of add-ons that attach to its iPod player. A version of the iPod sells with 40GB and has a 10,000 song capacity.
In announcing its device, Dell seemed to take a swipe at Apple. "Carrying around thousands of songs on one small device is a nifty idea, but not if you have to recharge it every few hours," said John Hamlin, senior vice president and general manager of Round Rock, Texas-based Dell's U.S. consumer business.
According to Apple's Web site, the iPod can play for eight hours when fully charged.
The Dell DJ is part of a broader effort by computer makers to succeed in the consumer-electronics market. Dell also plans to start selling LCD TVs.
The Dell MP3 device also shows the growing role disk drives are playing in portable music players and in consumer electronics more generally. Hitachi Global Storage Technologies is supplying the 1.8-inch diameter drives in the Dell DJ, marking a major customer win for Hitachi. Hitachi announced the 1.8-inch drive earlier this year and began shipping it to customers in July.
"Dell is our most significant and earliest customer to adopt this (drive) in high volumes," said Bill Healy, Hitachi's senior vice president of consumer and commercial hard-disk drives.
 
Ah . . .

Such a storage system has little to do with the MP3 file format if used as a backup system.

I have a couple of Compact Flash cards that I use in my digital camera. Mine are 256 meg, but I've seen them up to 2 gigs. With a simple USB card reader, they could conceivably be used for data backup and transport.

But (and it's a BIG 'but') I've had some strange problems writing to the cards from the computer's hard drive. I've tried 3 card readers, 2 computers and 4 different memory cards with the same results. I can copy maybe 8-10 files to the card, and then the computer stops recognizing the device and I have to reboot the computer to continue.

Reading from these cards is no problem and writing to them in the camera is straight-forward.

Since most MP3 players use some sort of removable memory card for storage, I would be leary of using them for data backup.

Edit: Just reread Dermot's post and I see that Dell is use micro-drives instead of memory cards. I've had the same problems I mentioned above with a 360 meg IBM microdrive.

[ 10-29-2003, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Ron Eggers ]
 
Hi Ron,

Is it possible your computer has USB version 1.x ports? If the computer is over two years old, this is probably the case. The older USB ports are known to have this type of issue, especially if you have a VIA chipset. Printers, digital cameras, etc will work sporadically. (another thing to add to that quote from another thread? smile)

Some times this can be resolved by upgrading your motherboard's BIOS, or changing the IRQ setting. If you have a VIA chipset and AMD processor with Windows 98SE, Microsoft has a patch for this issue at THIS LINK The other alternative is to throw in a cheap ($10) USB 2.0 card.

Mike
 
It's not only possible, Mike. I definitely have USB 1.0. In fact, I bought a 2.0 card and just haven't installed it yet.

I'll give that a try.

I may have to take back most of the bad things I've said about you. Thanks.
 
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