annoying client ****

mccaigwelles

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Dec 14, 2004
Posts
13
Loc
BROOKLYN, NY
We have a really annoying/ frustrating situation going on with a client of ours. She ordered two frames from me over the phone, specifying that they needed to be white washed, maple and simple. She told me to just go ahead and order them because she did not have time to come in and look at the samples and that she trusted my judgenment. We've worked with her many times in the past so I went ahead and did not require a deposit like I usually do and just ordered them for her.

Turns out she comes in to drop off the artwork to fit into the frames (they have already been built, we just needed to fit the work) and she decides she does not like them (she thinks they are too deep but never specified how deep she wanted them). So she doesn't want them. She took her artwork back and left the frames here-- my framer was the only one at the shop when it all went down and he got flustered and did not make sure she payed for them. I've called her and left several messages that she must come back and pay for them since we did the work but she is avoiding my calls.

These were very expensive frames (I spent a few hundered dollars) and I think it is completely unfair that she thinks we should eat the cost because she did not have the time to come in and look at the sample. The other question and a bit of a temptation is that I have her credit card on file and could just charge it to that but would that be considered against the law/ stealing? I wouldn't want to get in that kind of trouble but at the same time it is very tempting.... ugh
 
No, I don't believe that is stealing. I have serveral moulding companys that have mine on file and I know that if I didn't pay my bills they would charge me.

Just leave her a message and let her know what you are planning to do, then run it through. She can fight it with her credit card company if she wants to. she may even win without a signature but You did what she asked and if you have any more problems tell her you are going to be contacting your lawyer. You may loose this customer, but who needs that kind of customer.
she is responsible. Or at least should be.

Just my opition.

Jennifer
 
I sure as heck wouldn't run it on her charge card......

I never would have completed the order without some sort of communication with the customer first. She could have at the very least come in for a minute and approve your selection? You could have at the very least called her with specifics like style and price? Then you could have run her credit card with her approval. Or possibly an email communication with an attached picture of your design?

Doesn't seem to me that you have a leg to stand on if you didn't get anything in writing. I had a customer come in last Christmas and dropped off a portrait and she made a quick selection and wanted me to call her with price. I had a hard time getting a hold of her and even though she is a regular customer and I had a deadline for the holidays I would not order the materials without her approval on price. It was an $800 order. Finally got a hold of her and she balked at the price, I offered a less expensive alternative and she mulled it over and decided on the original choice. But, if I had already ordered the materials and she had chosen not to go with it after hearing the price it would have been my problem not hers.

Sorry, guess I'm not much help........good luck getting her to pay for it!

[ 04-15-2005, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: Emibub ]
 
I really hate to say it, but I agree with Kathy. If you do not have her approval to make the charge then it would be theft. She can challenge it and get a charge back, which costs you more money. I also think that if you don't have anything in writing then it's time for small claims court, and hope for the best, which probably won't be in your favor.
 
"You could have at the very least called her with specifics like style and price?"....

Like I said, she was looking for something that was maple and whitewashed, I told her we had it and quoted her a price over the phone. Granted, in retrospect I should have told her she had to come in and approve it but I thought I was doing her a favor since she was rushing around and didn't have time to stop by. She knew exactly what she was getting but she is complaining that she would have liked the depth to be more shallow.
 
We've worked with her many times in the past so ...
It's harder and more expensive to get new customers than to keep existing ones ... how much business does this customer bring you in a year? Perhaps its better to be magnanimous about this particular deal than to lose her all together?
 
Without written consent it is illegal to maintain records of your client's credit card numbers. You are only allowed to have the last 4 digits on file for reference.

I would suspect that there is other motivation for the client to turn down the frames, possibly some kind of financial trouble. You may just have to chalk this one up to experience. They have a moral obligation, but probably not an enforcible legal one and chasing after them in an unstructured way could backfire on you. If it is really worth it to you, turn the invoicing over to an independent collections agent.

After similar, though not as costly, experience I will rarely take a phone order based on a client's measurements.

It sounds as if this was/is a relatively good client and perhaps time and patience will win out. If not there may be little you can effectivly do.
 
I would not run the card because she never took the frames. You would have the product and payment if you ran the card.
I might ask her for half at least to cover yourself but no matter what happens I think you will lose her anyway.
Make a couple ready mades out of them or store art and try to recoup some of your money that way if all else fails.
I don't care who it is, I never ever take any order over the phone or in person without the artwork in front of me and half downpayment.
I also won't deliver unless they come in OK the job and pay in full.

You have to take care of yourself because no one else will.
 
Thanks everyone, I think I will just have to learn a lesson from this one. Ugh, bad karma on her part, what goes around comes around, that is all I have to say....
 
Don't ever use someone's credit card without authorization! Sorry about the frames. If this is a regular customer I'd remind her next time she tries to call in an order. I'd also consider building a little extra into the next few jobs to recover my loss.
 
How about running them thru the table saw to make them shallower?? Is the profile a simple squared off or bullnose type with a flat side? It's really not that hard assuming you actually have a table saw. Or, if not, find a cabinet maker to cut them down for you. If you ever do get ahold of her ask her how shallow she wants them and cut them down.
 
Sometimes I think the older I get, the less tolerant I get. Then sometimes, the opposite. Dumb. No advice from here: just sympathy. But she's a jerk.

I'm in the middle of one as well. I rushed two stretch jobs with two frames I ordered for a designer. Two days, start to finish. It's been eight months, three invoices, five phone calls. She's brought me several "big" jobs to price out but oddly enough, they aren't soup yet. Whaddya think.

My fault for trusting her, and I'm not out that much. It's the principle, blast it. What's with people and their lousy consciences? (AND...she made a big deal of telling me that she "forgot" about the bill and always treats everyone with respect.) blech....
 
Without prior approval do not run the card...you'll end up in trouble with your card processor and it just ain't kosher even though I understand your temptation.

If she's a very good customer except for this incident, smile and make the most of it. Apologize for any miscommunication and offer to have her pick out a moulding and tell her you'll turn it around at once. Of course you can explain that you normally would never make frames for someone without them approving the choice in person, but seeing as it was her, you made an exception. Then drop it and keep a good customer.

If this is a pattern developing or she's not that great a customer,...drop her now before you get ulcers whenever she calls or comes in. You can still do it kindly, but sometimes you do have to fire a customer and send the headache to a competitor.

I have a number of customers that just tell me to frame it and "work my magic". They don't want to give me any input except to tell me where it will hang and they don't even necessarily want to know how much it'll be. When I first work with a new client this way it scares the heck out of me and I'm always afraid that one day they won't like something. If that happens, I'll re-do the work for nothing and request their imput for future work. It is great affirmation to be trusted this way though. It's not that I'm such a great designer, but they would rather not make the choice themselves.

Dave Makielski
 
Well, according to NBC, the world is coming to an end over the next six weeks. Guess we know which way these people are going!
:eek: Rick
 
As the economy starts to finally sink in for those that didn't feel it before.....

We are finding for the first time in 28 years, that we have to review ALL orders before the people leave. And in most cases, we are giving people a reciept and pointing out what their total will be when they pick up. In the last month we have had to eat parts of three orders. Small, but it is the better part of valor and business.

When they have the reciept in their hand, they can't argue about he said she said. Sad really.
 
We make them sign the invoice that states that jobs may not be canceled.
 
Originally posted by MerpsMom:
I'm in the middle of one as well. I rushed two stretch jobs with two frames I ordered for a designer. Two days, start to finish. It's been eight months, three invoices, five phone calls. She's brought me several "big" jobs to price out but oddly enough, they aren't soup yet. Whaddya think.

My fault for trusting her, and I'm not out that much. It's the principle, blast it. What's with people and their lousy consciences? (AND...she made a big deal of telling me that she "forgot" about the bill and always treats everyone with respect.) blech....
Sounds like it's time to implement a design fee. Redeemable on the completion of the order only. Do like designers do and get a retainer from the jerk so you aren't left holding the wrong end of the stick. All jobs will be submitted as a proposal and PO's and deposits will be issued before any materials are ordered. Any invoicing beyond 60 days will be turned over to an attorney for collection...all attorney's fees Added to the amount collected. YadaYadaYada.

It's unfortunate that a handshake or your word isn't good enough to do business any more, but it's reality. Just as real as the Big Boxes.

Edit: The client won't value your time if you don't place a value on it. By charging a design fee to the designer (she's charging her client for your talents..isn't she?) you will help them become more professional or perhaps help them find someone else's time to waste.
 
I have had success with calling or writing to a non-paying customer to offer sympathy. Something along the lines of, "Hey, if you're having trouble, I understand. We can work with you. I'll be happy to hold these for you, and you can pay $10 a month or something, to make if official that you still want them, and then pick them up when you can afford to."

Usually they are embarrassed into coming and picking them up. Sometimes they are relieved that we are so understanding.

Once, the customer sheepishly admitted that she just changed her mind and didn't want the work anymore. I told her, "Oh, then just pay the re-stocking fee, and you can quit avoiding us. We'd rather keep you as our customer. Just don't make a habit of it!" She was also relieved, and we did many more (paid) orders for her over the years. (re-stocking fee barely covers our material cost, but is better than nothing, and losing a customer)
 
You just learned a lesson the hard way, unfortunately. No matter how long they have worked with you, never let anyone order something sight unseen. My customers have tried this, too, and you want to accommodate them, but taste is fickle. When I have a similar request, I offer to pick out a design, price it, and have it out on a table ready for preview. That way they can run in and approve the design in about 3 minutes, including the time it takes to collect the deposit. Even when they say they trust my judgement, I won't order anything without an in-person go-ahead. You really can't charge her card without her approval. You need to contact her either in writing or by phone and set up a time so she can see to you personally. I have found that some customers act differently with the employees than they will with you. You don't want to lose a good client and there are ways to smooth over the situation. First of all she may have just been in an off mood that day and if she comes back to see you she might change her mind about the depth. It's happened here a few times. "I don't know what my problem was that day...I must have been tired/hungry/in a rush" . Offer to give her a 25-50% discount on the frames only. Sometimes these things look just right with a smaller price tag ! (and you won't be stuck with two frames that will likely never get sold.) Good luck and let us know what happens!
 
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