An R.C. Gorman Difficulty

MerpsMom

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Being away on vacation is nice, but I took in three problems yesterday and need some info since I'm thinking my brain is still on vacation.

One is a Gorman dated 1984. Customer paid $1,400. for it back then. It was framed by someone in Albuquerque. Problems: Art floatmounted directly onto linen using large rectangular hinges. Linen drymounted or glued directly to regular 1/8th f/c. Regular glass placed directly onto art, smashing it against the glass. In other words, a mess.

I'm sending her to a conservator, but here's a weird thing. When first presented to me, you could see the hinges quite visibly, making a darker rectangle prominently seen on the front of the art. After unfitting, they're nearly invisible. What's with that? The glass was severely ghosted, of course, from the fabric, and you can see the outlines of the hinges on the glass, but why did they virtually fade from sight on the art?? Was I just seeing the ghost?
 
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Dermot

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Yes

Not many materials will hold gasses back…if any that a framer would use....
 

FrameMakers

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the pressure of the glass and the extra thickness of the hinges made the area darker.
When you took the glass off, you didn't have the pressure that makd the image darker. try prssing a photo to a piece of glass. same thing will happen + newton rings on the photo.
 

Baer Charlton

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I'm gonna go with Dave.... Dang few linen tapes or rice paper have anything to off-gas.

But then, there ARE old wives, and they DO like to tell tales.... :D

As for Newton's old wife and the tale she told was that of the bump in the shape of an apple that was on the pate of her husband of years. :D
 

Framar

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MM - at least you are lucky your Gorman had hinges - the last one I reframed had been ATG'd all around the outside edges!!! Talk about eek!

That's when I phoned 3M and after working through their video tape department to their "tape" department - I found a very knowledgeable gentleman who told me to try lighter fluid which amazingly removed every trace of the ATG! Or at least enough to satisfy me 15 years ago! LOL!
 
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Dermot

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I know of virtually no product/material that is manufactured that won’t out gas or wont have a similar issue…….….now if anyone knows of a method of manufacturing something so that it wont out gas or have similar issues there is a fortune awaiting them and possible a Nobel prize…..and that is no old wife talk……
 
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Dermot

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Some more thoughts………..my science hat is on……….. on this one….

I’m not discounting the Newton ring theory….in this case it possibly has played a part..

But out gassing should not be discounted……regardless of how inert the original hinging material may have be…….questions and thought need to be asked and given as to how the hinging material was stored, packaged, handled, the person handling the hinges may have transferred contamination……..it’s a mine field this whole area of science….

I spent quite a big part of my life working with methodology to eliminate the transfer and cross contamination of various manufacturing facilities………

Over the years I’m astonished by the amount of time that is given to talking about preserving art…..and this is a good thing……but my heart sinks with how little time is devoted to discussing the possibility of cross contamination from the very materials we use to create the preservation package or by the people carrying out the work……….……..progress is been made I did read an article a few years ago about a cleanroom facilities at a framing business in New York City…..though the article gave scant note to this fact, nor did it indicate what class (Federal Standard 209) room it is………I think they are up to 209E at this stage …..and internationally there is an ISO standard now……most reputable business in the world are switching to the ISO standard….

One last thought don’t mix up clean manufacturing facilities with sterilisation (mythology) facilities, cleanrooms and sterilisation are two separate subject….all be it linked…depending on what is been manufactured or handled.....
 

HannaFate

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Just curious... did that thing have an "Old America" tag on the back?

Dermot: Cleanroom framing? Aseptic framing? ah..no. No way am I wearing a bunny suit to do framing. I'll leave that to people handling the Constitution, the Magna Carta, and other things that really need it.

Truth is, there will never be "perfect" archival framing that is practical for everyday home decor.
Most of the items being framed will outgas, or break down on their own.
 
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Dermot

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Hanna

I did ask that people would distinguish between Sterile (Aseptic) facilities and cleanroom facilities….similar but BIG differences the projects you mentioned would have been worked in cleanroom facilities or at least I hope they are…..

Except for Radiation or ETO I cannot at present think of how a piece of art could be safely sterilised……
 

wpfay

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Seigraph or lithograph? Gorman did both as well as some block printing.
Observation: I've seen heavy serigraph inks (Niemann, Simbari) that have concentrated the outgassing at the edge of the pigment, causing localized oxidation. The paper is pretty well sealed from the inks as evidenced by the staining on the back of the prints from the oil in the pigments.
Speculation: Lithos probably don't seal the paper as well as serigraphs and the outgassing from the foamboard can pass through the pigments.
Theory: The hinges might have been more visible with the glazing on due to differential permeability caused by the hinges and paste themselves.

Dermot,
I've heard of positive pressure chambers being used to house presses that bond high gloss photography to aluminum panels. The results are flawlessly mounted huge photos. The cost must be extreme.
 

MerpsMom

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Here's a new observation on my Gorman. After staring at the glass for awhile, it seems that it is not the hinge that darkened, it's the glass that lightened. The fabric outgassed so badly that the glass clouded everywhere except over the hinges because the latter was smashed up against it and the outgassing couldn't reach under that portion of it. (What horrible sentence construction!) This is actually good news.

Now I just have to talk about releasing the hinges from the fabric. Or the conservator does.

The frame shop was "Legacy."

Interesting info above.
 

HannaFate

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I have often wanted to drive up the road to his studio and smack Gorman for printing his lithographs on heavy paper, and then rolling them in tubes to sell. Lay them flat, you sadist!

Most customers want to show the deckled edges, but want the print to lay absoultely flat. My solution has been to press the prints under low heat in the drymount press before doing anything else to them.

Even that won't make sure the print still lays flat, if the framed piece is placed in a humid atmosphere. (yeah, I seal the package, but it only goes so far if someone hangs it right in front of the vent of their evaporative cooler)

I would not be surprised if a LOT of this type of piece are mounted quite agressively.
 
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