An apology?

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PAckerman

PAckerman

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Industry Vendor
Joined
Aug 21, 2000
Posts
333
Location
Syosset, NY
This is along post but I really want to hear the opinions of my fellow grumblers. This started with an anonymos post that was directed at my company. Please take the time to read and tell me if I am wrong. I take your opinions seriously.


United Mfrs. Supplies, Inc.
80 Gordon Drive
Syosset, NY 11791


Newman’s Custom Frame
513 11th Street NE
Washington, DC 20003

Dns y,
We have had a rather interesting debate on the Grumble in the last week or so. I promised that if you would tell me who you were I would look into the problem and if my company was in the wrong, I would apologize publicly. After a few days to allow FEDEX to supply me with the pertinent information, I have concluded and I am sure you and my fellow Grumblers will agree, the apology should come from you.

I have received two e-mails from Dennis at Newman’s regarding this matter. I will post these e-mails on the Grumble if asked. Since Dns y, who I assume is Dennis felt compelled to make an anonymous attack against my company on the Grumble I feel it is necessary to post this letter of explanation.


Now for the facts:
On 11/25/03 Tuesday at 4:00 PM, Michele from Newman’s placed an order for 500 picture hangers and requested FEDEX Standard overnight delivery. As the order was placed too late on the 24th to ship that day, Michelle was informed that the order would ship the next day and it was with tracking number 640172133176

On 11/26/03 Wednesday the next day at 2:00 pm Michelle again placed an order for 500 picture hangers and requested that we ship via FEDEX Priority Overnight which guarantees AM delivery the next day. We complied and shipped the order on 11/26/03 via tracking number 640172134735

Please remember that the next day was Thanksgiving and FEDEX does not deliver on that day.

On the FEDEX website the information shown does not show all the delivery information. I have in my hands a printout from the FEDEX office showing that two delivery attempts were made on Friday 11/28/03, one at 9:22 and another attempt at 12:06 pm. According to FEDEX at both attempts the business was closed.

If anyone is interested I have the FEDEX delivery report available and am willing to fax it to anyone who would care to check the documentation from FEDEX.


Michelle and Dennis from Newman’s both say the business was open on Friday 11/27/03 and FEDEX is lying.

There were two attempts because the two shipments were on different delivery trucks and so I can only guess that FEDEX has two drivers who are now lying.

On 12/01/03 Monday both packages were now on one truck. Another delivery attempt was made by FEDEX at 11:59am. The driver reported that the business was closed.

On the following day 12/02/03 FEDEX made another attempt to deliver and both packages were refused by Newman’s

I feel that we at United did everything we could do at our end. If the packages are delivered and the store is closed are we liable? In this type of situation we require the customer be responsible for the shipping charges which incurred in both directions. At this point we are being charged by FEDEX for an amount of $56.22 which I feel is the responsibility of our customer to pay these charges as we and FEDEX did all that was required.

Newman’s, if a public apology is needed it most definitely should come from you.


My rant:
One of the great dangers that I see for this great country is people that do not want to take responsibility for their own actions. Forget terrorism. When people begin to take responsibility for actions they instigate the world will be a better place and trial lawyers will have to find a new career.

Grumblers, your opinions are appreciated and respected.
 
I resisted jumping into the earlier thread dealing with this, and I am reluctant to join in at this time. However, I do think we are fortunate to have the involvement of distributors, manufacturers and others, particularly if their comments go beyond peddling their products.

Peter's initial reaction was a bit more emotional than his normal tone, but I guess we all would be tempted to get a bit heated if someone publicly criticizes our business. If the facts are indeed as Peter represents them here, it does sound like United was acting appropriately.

I can't understand why the hangers were ordered twice and then refused when the driver finally connected for the delivery.

I guess I'm fortunate. Both FedEx and UPS have instructions to deliver to the store next to ours if we are closed.
 
I'll bite. Since it is snowing for the fourth day in a row and I just simply can't bear another day with nobody to talk to allllll day long.

Since not being able to comment after reading the original thread late.....my thoughts were torn. I really don't think Dennis was looking to start a war. He appears to be a "yakker", I only say that because I am a "yakker" too. But, I paused and thought what I would do if somebody made a disparaging comment about my store in a public forum and I do believe I would come unglued. Peter is obviously very protective of his business and reputation. Rightly so. But I also would like to add even though it wasn't asked......Peter, I think you need to rethink your approach. It looks a little WWF from the outside. Just go with a quiet unrelenting rage until you get results. I think the outbursts are off putting. I would want to make sure that I wasn't being intimidating to others, because, even though I respect your position and would fight to the death any attacks on my personal business I would consider my audience. Just my opinion.

I've gotten myself in trouble a couple of times saying things on this forum. I've never said anything untrue and would stand by any of my comments but you just don't realize how far reaching this forum is. This should be a lesson to all of us. If we are looking for a fight then by all means go for it. But if like Dennis, who is a swell guy by the way, we are making offhand comments, be very careful what you say, you could be called on it.
 
You asked for it, so here's my opinion, Peter.

We've had a couple of issues come up on The Grumble that were really private ones - or should have been.

The Grumble - as much as I love it - is a lousy court of public opinion. We will never know the whole story aboiut ANYTHING and my opinion of you, and United, will continue to be based on many years of personal experience rather than on anything dns might have said here.

I have no personal experience on which to base an opinion about dns.

Even if you are 100% right, I believe you are only hurting yourself each time you post on this topic.

Regarding dns' anonymity: there are many Grumblers who have valid personal or business reasons for wanting to remain anonymous. The price they pay in return, I think, is a loss of some credibility. It is very hard to attach much weight to the opinion of someone you know nothing about. It's not impossible - it's just much more difficult.

Blowing his "cover" is not constructive.

I think you've attached WAY too much weight to the original comment you're upset with and you continue to bring it to the attention of many who never noticed it or gave it a second thought.
 
I wasn't done yet. I just had to take a breath.

I had a message on my voice mail the other day. The guy was calling from his cell and was upset 'cause he came to my door with something to be framed and found it locked. He didn't leave a name.

Of course, it was locked 'cause it was 45 minutes past closing time. I never saw the guy and I wasn't expecting him, or I would have waited.

He closed by saying he would just have to take his business elsewhere.

In a way, it was upsetting. I can't imagine I did anything wrong and I suppose he'll tell all his friends what a shoddy business I'm running here.

But, you know, I don't think it's going to ruin the reputation I've spent 27 years establishing, so I don't think I'm going to hunt this guy down and try and make him apologize.

It just doesn't matter.
 
Peter, I will come to bat and make the first response.

A commitment for ordering next day delivery and being able to accept the delivery is the responsibility of the ordering person or firm. As having been in business for over 30 years in one way or another that is the way it is.

As for the FedEx drivers not being able to get into the store (store closed). I have yet to have any of my regular drivers give me any double talk about not being open when we were actually open. If the door is unlocked in front they just walk in and look for us, announcing that they are here.
 
I agree with Judy. I think this is a private matter. Even though one party may have brought it to the grumble (I missed the initial thread and really don't know the entire story) it should have been resolved privately.

Just my 2 cents.

Roz
 
I thought that first exchange a little wicked myself.

I personally do not like the anonymity used on the Grumble. I really think that if you are going to use a forum like this then let's see who you are. My owner is a little leary of me going on the G but he also sees good come out of it so he let's me keep going.

Peter, we've met before and personally I like you very much and you know we buy from you. I think everyone would have been better served if you could have asked for the information initially in a nicer way, gathered the facts and then posted your reply, which above I do not have any problem with what's so ever.

I agree, the apology is owed to you, not vice versa and yes the customer should be responsible for the charges.

Let's just take it a little easy in the beginning so when the facts do come out, they stand up on the G.
 
Peter

I have also meet you a few years ago in New York……it’s unlikely that you will recall as you were a busy man that day……my instincts were that I liked you and could do business with you.

As you most likely have gathered I’m not one for backing down on issues……but unfortunately in business there is always the occasion that one finds themselves in, a no win situation……and I fear this is one of those occasions for you…..you might just need to bite the bullet and move on……my instinct is that I’m inclined to accept your side of things after all it is not exactly in your interest to post details of one of your business process which can be easily checked if it would not stand up to scrutiny.

BTW……I’m based about a mile from Ashford village in an area that is not easy to find……NEVER has a FEDEX delivery not made it to me in a timely fashion.

I agree with others this would have been better dealt with off this forum…..and I say this with great reluctance…….as I love a good debate……which when all is said an done is what this whole issue is about…..two people discussing a business process.

For now all the best…..I think this one has side tracked you…..which is only human after all.


Dermot

[ 02-05-2004, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: Dermot ]
 
Peter,

If I place an order with United or anyother company and ask for next day delivery and as you said "Before the cutoff time" I expect next day delivery.

I will not expect it to be Next Day if;
It's a Friday and I didn't specify Saturday Delivery.
The next day is a Holiday.
The next day I'm closed.
Unless the company sent me something bad and I'm correcting their error, I expect to pay the shipping costs.

Now,
I too believe that this Forum is not the appropriate place to air a grievance unless all other avenues have been exhausted.

If somebody attacked my business anonymously on an open Forum I would be pissed.

If I attacked a business on an Open Forum without exhausting all other avenues, I would expect somebody to be pissed off at me.

The same holds true (With me) in regards to personal attacks. (Except if Emibub is involved, we all know she is just WAY TO EASY)

-----------BOTTOM LINE---------------

I will continue to do business with United and hold no ill will towards you or Dennis.

SO WHERE THE H*** IS THE ORDER I PLACED!!!!!!!!! ;)
 
Just to clarify. That Newman is not this Newman... ;)

Edit: How in tarnation can somebody mess up a simple statement like that?????

Betty

[ 02-05-2004, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: B. Newman ]
 
Originally posted by jvandy57:
The same holds true (With me) in regards to personal attacks. (Except if Emibub is involved, we all know she is just WAY TO EASY)
Click to expand...
I'm feeling slightly abused today........but that is okay!

Okay, I agree this thing should have been handled privately, but it wasn't. Why should Peter sit there and take it without getting a retraction? This forum is just like a newspaper. It is in print and there for all eternity for someone to read. That is the problem with posting on this forum. You can't go back and recreate history. But that is also what is good about this forum, I think it is an honest dialogue and sometimes people's feathers get ruffled. I don't think he should be silenced just because it is unpleasant. Of course it takes a bigger person to turn the other cheek but I don't think Peter is the one who took this public either.

I just think the approach needs work.
 
So, where's the original offense?
 
Less, this can be a test.

If an alert guy like you cannot find the original offending comment, I contend that it really wasn't that important in terms of public opinion.

If you CAN find it, I contend that it really wasn't that important in terms of public opinion.
 
I'm offended
 
So what? You're anonymous.
 
This is changing the subject a bit, but might be a good time to warn the Grumbler's about sending overnight packages through the PO. I made the mistake of doing that recently. On a Thursay I sent a package that cost $23 for next day air, AM delivery. As it turned out the package did not get to the business until Monday of the next week. When I contacted the PO they said that they had tried to deliver twice but there wasn't anyone there to sign for it.

I told them that this is very large business and there is always someone to sign for packages.

When the truth finally came out the reason the package was so late was because the receiving company didn't have daily, on sight, mail delivery, and the person who picks up their mail had already picked up before my overnight package came in. When the PO said they tried to deliver it twice they meant that they took it to the receiving companies PO box,left it there and put two delivery pickup slips in the box. Just for the record, I did not send the package to a PO box. It was sent to the street address of the company.

I learned a very expensive lesson that day; don't ever overnight through the PO....especially if it could be something going to a company that doesn't have daily mail delivery. The PO has nobody to deliver it and they won't even call the receivng company to tell them that they have an overnight delivery being held.

It is my opinion that the PO is selling something they can't deliver and charging a lot for it. If I would have sent it UPS AM delivery it would have been there on time, delivered right to the front door.

Peter, I really do understand your frustration when dealing with something that just doesn't seem fair. We've all had times like that. Don't let it get to you. Life is way to short.

Even if nobody reads this, thanks for letting me vent.
 
i have responded to peter on three(?) occassions in private emails of hopes of some response. he chooses not to do this, but he wants to put it all on here.

who here that owns a retail business has had a problem with UPS or Fedex from time to time? anyone? well i have worked at three different places in about an eight year period and every place has had some instances at one time or another. **** i am sure mr. ackerman himself hs had a problem or two getting orders. and who here would close their retail business a few days before christmas when your hours are on the door. the hours being stated as 10AM-6PM. therefor the first at 9:22AM means we are not there. think about that peter, do you make deliveries to places while they are closed? they did not deliver there at 12whatever you said. why would we lie? what sense does that make? we needed the product? we had Fedex on the phone while we were on the phone with United (three-way call) and they refused to listen to Fedex say they did not deliver to the correct address. hmm, if he would have gotten on the phone for ten seconds this would have been over. first off my boss has been a loyel customer for 19 years, she pays her bills and has not had of any problems that i know of with United before. so a company chooses to believe a company that has given everyone grief over a customer that has been with you for 19 years? makes perfect sense to me.

peter i tried to email you but you chose not to respond, if you wish i will post all of the letters i sent you on this site so they can see who is trying here. there is about four pages that i wrote you that you will not saying anything about. so starting being real and admit your company like all has flaws. sometimes being proud, you overlook basic things.

d
 
I have received two e-mails from Dennis at Newman’s regarding this matter. I will post these e-mails on the Grumble if asked.
Click to expand...
if you wish i will post all of the letters i sent you on this site so they can see who is trying here.
Click to expand...
Speaking only for myself: No thank you.

Oh, sure, conflict is part of life and we can't ignore it.

But we sure as **** don't have to encourage it.
 
I don't think this 'dirty laundry' should have been aired publicly in the first place, and am of the opinion that BOTH sides showed a lack of self restraint and tact.

You're both great people, active contributors to the Grumble, and hopefully on the way to resolving this so we can all get back on topic.

It's all out in the open now, and not so big of a deal. Let's get this behind us, what do you say?

Mike


PS: Neither of you seem to be getting each other's emails. Tell me: Are they being handled by the same FEDEX driver?
 
I have to say that I have never had any problems with UPS or FEDEX deliveries.
If you order something overnight express it will probably be delivered early (possibly before hours of operation). I have always felt that it was my responsibility to be open or find alternative shipping. If I need something rushed then it's up to me to be there.


I've had a good relationship with United but I have to admit the emotional responses posted on this forum by the head of the company has surprised me.
That being said, I certainly wouldn't stop doing business with a company based on some emotional comments made here... Unless the comments were directed at me, then the whole situation would be looking a little bit different.

Regarding remaining anonymous...it is certainly a choice, but it doesn't lend credibility on the forum. IMHO
 
For the people here that think i am hiding something i have said my name before, i have met people on this site, emailed people on here privately, received emails from people on here, and sent videos to people on here for christmas presents. search on yahoo for dns ynko, i have used that for about eight years, i have told peter my name and where i work. yet he acts as though i have not. so for those of you that think this, i am sorry that you believe what you read from one side and not the other. there are many people on here that go by other names, i am not the only person on this site.

dennis yankow
denis yanko
dns ynko
seunte
sinyadot

you may search all of these names on any search engine and my name will appear along with my artwork. i have done this for quite some time, but i use some names more than others. the first name is my real name. the second is a common misspelling, the third is a name i use for photography, the last two are for paintings (not too much will show up under the last couple-i don't show them alot)

d
is an intial for dennis
 
Originally posted by D. Derbonne:
I've had a good relationship with United but I have to admit the emotional responses posted on this forum by the head of the company has surprised me.
Regarding remaining anonymous...it is certainly a choice, but it doesn't lend credibility on the forum. IMHO
Click to expand...
I agree on both counts. I wouldn't expect the president of a company the size of United to stoop to name-calling, and invitations to 'bring-it-on'. At the same time, I used to use Charles Lowry as my screen name, because that's who I am. After changing my email address, I ended up as CharlesL, but I'm pretty sure everyone knows who I am, or at least what my name is.

I personally think this whole debacle should end before everyone involved has their credibility associated with a 'professional' wrestling match held in a high-school gym.
In that vein, it might be a good time for the moderators to put the 'Sleeper Hold' on the whole mess.
 
Inevitably, both Peter and Dennis will read this thread and decide that all of us are "siding" with the other party. That's why these things are so pointless. There is never a winner. Nobody goes home happy but the lawyers.
 
Thank you all for the responses to this post. I am humbled. I will in the future try to resolve problems privately but when a public post is made disparaging my company I will feel compelled to respond publically. I still fell that people must take responsibility for actions began by them. I am the first to accept responsibility for the actions of my company and always post with all my contact information available to all. As far as I am concerned this subject will never be resolved and I am going to let it go.
Please, if you have a problem that you feel I can help with, call me and I will do my best to resolve it. I will not however accept responsibility for others actions when the responsibility is thiers.
Peter Ackerman
 
I wish this could have been solved privately, but I can only try. We do have to try as hard as possible to resolve things off of here and that was my downside. I should have tried a bit harder. We do have to take responsibility for our actions be it good or bad. Some times saying a couple little words is the hardest thing to do. My fathead gets worked up and it might go a wee bit too far. I apologize to all and all on lookers.

d
 
I do business with United, and I have met Dennis and like him. I stayed out of the foray, but I did want to add something. Is it possible FedEx delivered to the wrong address? I have had them deliver packages belonging to me to an address on Maple Street in LONGMEADOW, not my address on Maple Street in EAST Longmeadow on two occasions. I can't understand why two drivers would make the same mistake, unless the packages were addressed wrong to begin with. Of course, that never happens, right? I have a box at my house delivered by-who else?-FedEx, with our address on it, but someones elses name. Could it be that this whole situation is just one big mix-up?

Maybe it is time to forget about this, and move on.
 
I agree with you on the 'moving on', Pam. It sorta sounds as though both aggrieved parties do too. Here's hoping so.
I was once involved in something that became even more acrimonious, and I learned my lesson, and have since refrained from publicly bashing anyone, or trying not to do so.
That's why I like the 'Preview Post' feature.
 
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