Alternative to spray adhiesives?

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morania

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I've been using good ol 3M 77 to mount prints and with the holiday rush, it's getting kinda sticky in my little shop- even with a vent. Is there a roll on type of adviesive that can be used for a good mount of typical prints to foam board? I think that would be better for a small shop till I can get a wet work area built.
 
Do a search for PMA its a roll on adhesive that works well.

STOP using 77. And Vac-U-Mount is nasty stuff as well. Its very carcinogenic! Your lungs are worth more than you are probably charging for the drymounting!

Borden (Elmers glue) has a new spray adhesive. I haven't used it but my distributor likes it.
 
I use a dust mask but you're right if it's rat poison, I don't want it around.
I found the PMA is a film. That's the stuff? I have film for doing diplomas and things.
The roll on glues would be better for the art prints. Inexpensive and efficient to use.
 
The 77 is nasty nasty stuff, a dust mask is not even close to adequate protection. #m did have the "Pro-Spray" system available but have "canned" it due to poor sales. This was a good system for us and I have no idea what comes next for us, I will not return to using the 77 adhesive happily. I am going to investigate the potential of a HVLP spray gun and an adhesive designed for "re-adhering" wallpaper early in the new year, I will let you know the outcome.
 
BTW Welcome to the Grumble!

I love my ProSpray system and didn't want to mention it because it has been d-c'ed. I will be checking out the Borden spray when I run out of the ProSpray.

I am also hopeful that by the time I run out of spray there will be an aftermarket manufacturer (with quality!).

PMA is like a tape on a roll. You squeegee it onto the back of your prints. I liked it a lot, but preferred the economy of using the ProSpray.

While the PMA is expensive, it doesn't kill you. You might get a nasty papercut, but at the end of the day you can breath. If you think the walls of your shop are sticky, picture the inside of your lungs! (Get me my soapbox!!!!!)

When I bought the shop I used the Vac-U-Mount. but when the can says 75% VOCs and it has a warning label on it. "don't use if...." Then I don't use it! Lifes too short to shorten it. Especially if you are only saving mone.

Get to a workshop, a training class, an on-line forum (oops, there already!) and ask questions. I don't know of many people that wet mount, most use heat presses. Check out your options, and always learn what is there to learn.
 
Bob and Lance

I am still a ProSpray user and will be until I run out of product. Sometime in Jan I will be looking for alternatives as well. I really don't want to go back to VacuMount, and will not go back to Super77.

Please let me know of the things you try and like. If I find something I like, I'll let you know.

I may just give in and buy a heat press.
 
Bob and Lance

I am still a ProSpray user and will be until I run out of product. Sometime in Jan I will be looking for alternatives as well. I really don't want to go back to VacuMount, and will not go back to Super77.

Please let me know of the things you try and like. If I find something I like, I'll let you know.

I may just give in and buy a heat press.
 
Its a deal, Jerry!

If I find a new product, (and it passes FACTS) I'll be sure to let others know.

Moraina,

Glad you asked your question, I hope the grumble can help you in your search, as you may be able to read between the lines in our posts, we are looking for alternatives to sprays as well. At least those of us who don't have a Seal 4060 Heat Vacuum press!

I may get a heat press if the ProSpray saga keeps up, but then I'd have to up the electric to 240, and I'm only renting, and my lease runs out in 1 1/2 years.
 
I had a line on a 4 by 8 Seal heat vac press that I was considering. It was "practically new". Had the base and everything, as well as having had the thermostat replaced (do they always not work when new? Seems like a common complaint on the Grumble.)

It was less than $3K, delivered. I was going to put it into my basement at home becasue there is no room here for a piece of equipment that big! But reality hit home. I'd need to upgrade the power at home, and cart the big peices back and forth, as well as give up time with the family when I get home. Not to mention I don't have the spare $3K.

I worry about the plate cooling between "bites", or getting the item crooked, I know its a learning curve, in time I'll get the heat press. Till then its ProSpray and Vacuum Press for me!
 
Hey Jerry,
As much as I didn't want to use one, the 500t is a very solid performer.

I thought mounting in chunks was a really bad idea but never had any problems.

I have in my new shop a 4 x 6 vac heat press that works great but with the 500T I was able to mount a 4 x 8 foot poster with no problems.

I didn't buy one for the new shop because I'm partial to vacuum.

Only problem we had with it was a simple on eto fix.
 
Bob,

I still use a Seal 4366M-HS that I bought new about 15 Years ago and the only thing that has never worked is the little plastic latch that came with the press. It was broken when I set up the press and I tossed it in the junk.

Mine has the older style rheostat knobs for heat and time and they work flawlessly. I think that most of the complaints about thermostats are from those who bought newer presses with the integrated touch pad control boards. They don't seem to hold up nearly as well as the older dial type controls. And, when something DOES break on the older models, you can replace a single broken control instead of an entire printed circuit board.

Framerguy
 
Framerguy,

What's the power usage like on one of those machines? I like the size, I tend to need to press things that are too big for my 36 by 46 VacPress. Not all the time but often enough for me to know I am going to want to kick myself three months after I buy it!

Does owning a smaller heat press and a big one make sense for a small shop? Right now I would probably bring the big items to my freind with the big machine, but I'd need a van to bring it back. The prints always seem to take up more room when you take them out of the tube!
 
I had a friend mount carpet on the inside sides of his van in the early '80s with Super 77 spray adhesive. I would never in my sweet life mount anything of any value with such a product.

I do use 3m's Photomount (non-sulfur based) for mounting artist info on the dust cover, but get away from sprays for any print mounting!

Dave Makielski
 
This may be a new post but could there be a way to use an iron and heavy material to impvovise a heat press?
 
Originally posted by Bob Doyle:
What's the power usage like on one of those machines?
Click to expand...
3390 watts, 240v, single phase 4-wire, twist-lock receptacle.

The press weighs 205 lbs, plus the pump and the stand.

After you've moved one of these things a few times, and had three different shops wired for it, these numbers get etched in your head.

Before I bought the Vacuseal, I had a Corona cold vacuum press made, ironically, by the company that made the Mat Maestro CMC. I dabbled with the sprays, but decided I might want children some day. (This was 22 years ago.) So mostly I used a roll-on adhesive. It came in huge buckets, had the consistency of petroleum jelly and generally required counter-mounting to keep the item from folding itself in half.

A little messy, but a safe and "permanent" solution.

I like the PMA, and Crescent's Perfect Mount, but would avoid using them on items larger than about 24x36.
 
Bob,

Ron covered one part of your question for you, let me try to hit on the other part. I have always operated a small shop. I bought the 4366 press after considering all the options and here is why I settled on the larger press.

True, you don't always have extra large pieces to mount, I'd guess most are in the 32x40 or smaller range. But, when you DO need to mount a larger piece, the smaller press is useless and you will have to find someone to mount the larger piece for you. That may be as convenient as running down the block to the neighbor frameshop or it may mean taking the piece to another town to have it mounted. In my case, there was nobody else within a 30 mile radius of my shop that had a larger press so I opted for the 4366 over the smaller one. I never regretted the decision. In 16 years, I haven't had a single piece of drymounting that I couldn't do in that press.

If you have the money to spend and the room for a larger press, I would recommend buying the largest press you can afford. The size of mounting requirements may change as people become aware of your press and you may get more of the larger pieces in for mounting, as I did.

I have done many maps, architectural renderings, and visual proposals for some of my customers that I wouldn't have been able to do with little inconvenience on my part. The work I took in just from the cities around me for their road planning, zoning additions, and other city renderings kept them as regular customers of mine and allowed me to get their work done in a timely manner with a minimum of inconvenience for me.

Framerguy
 
Originally posted by morania:
Is there a roll on type of adviesive that can be used for a good mount of typical prints to foam board? I think that would be better for a small shop till I can get a wet work area built.
Click to expand...
Sorry Morania, as they all seem to have missed the point about "small shop". They tend to get that way when they get used to 1,600' and feel cramped.

Back to your question. "Yes!" paste. It was all we used for about 30 years or so. Still good for the day to day. Don't know if Don Pierce and his FACTS have a problem with it or not. [but I'm sure someone will weigh in on that any minute now.] :D
 
I did say wet work. I also entertained the idea of heat, but with an iron. It's what I useto flatten rolled up prints. What I mean by wet work area is an area where I can spray and slop gooey stuff around like when I'm building my dioramas and model boats on the other side of my shack. I have a small table built under my Mom's old range hood. Not big enough to work with a peice of foam board.
Since the toxic scare I have now, I pulled an old vinyl patio table around to the side and I have been spraying outside. I just hope that the wind doesn't take my loved ones prints into the yard.
I'd love to hear more about the paste.
 
Don't know if Don Pierce and his FACTS have a problem with it or not. [but I'm sure someone will weigh in on that any minute now.]
Click to expand...
It makes me sad when someone tries to create controversy where there is none.

We're talking about permanent mounting, not preservation. In this case, the more permanent the better. That would make Yes or other roll-on adhesives superior to aerosol sprays or PMA, though not as easy to manage as dry mount tissue.

I think I'd forget about heat-mounting with a steam iron, though. It would be like trying to mow your lawn with a scissors.

BTW, it ceased to be Don Pierce's FACTS several years ago.
 
I just do frames for the folks who find prints that are near and dear to their hearts. Permanence is actaually what they like to hear and I don't need them coming back sith buckled and bubbled wararanty jobs.
I flatten diplomas and certificates and lightly mount thaem to allow for removal later but when it comes to those heavy paper prints that are rolled tight as pencils and mailed around town, I need to make sure they don't try to return to the rolled position.
If I use my table outside, I should be fine with the sprays but then I could find myself waiting for the weather to break before I can do a job.
Oh yeah. The iron thing crossed my mind as I was flattening a print. I use heavy linen sheets and iron rolled prints to a sort of flat position. If time permits, I stow them between heavy foam board for a while complete the process. Time usually doesn't permit.
 
I use Perfect Mount for photographs and like it a lot. I too am familiar with the toxic effects of sprays.

To all who are still using them: Please stop. The VOC's are not limited to your own lungs and shops; they linger in the air to contaminate customers (and shop pets) and eventually escape the confines of the building.

If you think you are avoiding problems by spraying outside, please reconsider. You may be reducing your direct absorption of the vapors, but you are directly putting all of the toxic elements into the air for the rest of us to breathe.
 
I'm all the way down here in Carolina. Let me know if you smell any fumes.
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Just kidding. Really. Point taken.
 
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