Alternate to CMC ownership

Create a Post
wpfay

wpfay

Judgmental Terrier Manager
Forum Support Team
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 1, 2000
Posts
16,605
Loc
Jacksonville Beach, FL USA
Business
Sunshine Frames
Do any of you Grumblers have any experience with the CMC software available from Falcon East? I got the software on a 90 day trial and at first blush seems to be a viable alternative to owning or leasing a CMC.
Works kind of like a chop service. They have also offered to help with designs that are proving to be difficult.

I'm looking for the downside of the deal...anyone want to play devil's advocate?
 
This is a quick summary of the recent study I've done and not the comprehensive feedback I've promised, but it will suffice to answer one part of it with this thread, and it's a good question, too, I think.

I toyed with that idea earlier, because one of our distributors has a cmc which I thought could work as the equivalent of a chop service.

For various reasons including economics and logistics, the idea just didn't work as well as I had thought. I believe one of the key reasons was that at the time I considered using a cmc as an item which would extend the capabilities of our shop, but not the efficiency. I was mistaken about that, because I now believe that to be the key benefit of a cmc.

That benefit is lost to us if the capability is not inhouse, because we would have missed out on the economic benefits by having to order mats as if they were chops.
 
As an aside to this discussion pertaining to suppliers that have CMC's, does anyone question why they would go to the expense of owning one of these marvels, if not to cut mats for contract work? It would be hard for me,anyway, to think that they just offer this service to the trade as a benefit for doing business with them. Does anyone else see this a potential conflict of interests?
 
Well, that's exactly the point of some discussions we've had with a couple of our suppliers, Bob; one of them goes out and bids directly against framers in the area for big jobs, and the other is a distributor of the machines and just generally does small amounts of work for its clients.

I can tell you which one gets the bulk of my business; that's for certain.
 
Ok, I have been patient... Have you tried it yet? How do the mats look? Do you think it is something to recomend?

Anything else you would like to add would be appreciated.

Good O'l Sue
 
Now, Sue...... are you talking to me?

We must be patient; I suspect the machine is somewhere between here and the great northwest. Hopefully more here than northwest, but I expect it to show up sometime this week.

We'll be soloing it for a while, as I couldn't get instructor/techs in at the same time as the machine. I'm not very happy about that, because it means I have to mount it, etc., if I want to put it to use right away. It's not like it will be a big deal or anything to do, I suspect, but it's not something I really wanted to have to fit into my personal schedule.

The expediter who was telling me all the details wouldn't ever tell me why I couldn't get a tech in quicker. All I was told was that they wanted to get cheap plane tickets. That was fine; I got on Travelocity myself and found plane fares under $200 from the places they were coming from, if they'd just have gotten them then they'd have had good advance purchase deals and would have been able to be here with the machine's arrival.

If someone would have just said that they were booked way ahead of time with installations and it took a couple of weeks to get into their schedule, I'd understand, but I've never been told exactly why they couldn't make it and wonder if anyone really knows.

The way I look at it is that I if I screw something up and it gets broken or else I drop the whole thing when I mount it, the company should have worked a little harder to get somebody here on time. No harm no foul.
 
Keep us posted, Po' Framer. But I think I was really asking WPFAY about Falcon East. But ant information about these CMC's is good information to have.

Thanks! Sue
 
Sue, I have been remiss in training on the software...big deadline got moved up a week.
I have seen the results of the work done by the machine in question, a Zund dual station CMC, an it's on a par with any of the other machines. The software has all the stuff except for a large font selection, and that is being worked on and will be added to the service at no additional cost.
My need for this kind of capacity is limited so the service is very useful to me. 99% of what I do is straight-line and a well tuned Keeton, or my GunnArt C55 do quite well.
I did talk to the owner of Falcon about protecting any designs I develop on their software. He was willing to sign whatever agreement was necessary to insure design protection. (I work with some corps that have licensed product and protecting their interests is an issue.)
What I was hoping with this thread is to get someone else to try this product out so we could compare notes. Falcon is willing to give a 90 day free trial on the software,and it doesn't take a lot of space on the computer.
As far as being a competitor, they do have a commercial division that works with big retailers, but the product is by no means custom. Besides, they're in New Jersey and I'm not...
Wally
 
Sorry about that, Sue; I'd completely forgotten what wally's original thread thought had been.

One thing which is interesting is that the software capability of the Zund (which is the top-of-the-line production machine) apparently doesn't match its cutting capabilities yet.

I don't yet understand why designs (such as corporate logos) can't be scanned into a computer and digitized, then converted to .dxf files so that the software would be able to make the cuts.
 
Wally and Po'Framer, thanks for responding so fast... why aren't you framing?
smile.gif




------------------
Sue May :)
"You want it when?!?!?"
 
I have a CMC. Other framers will ask me to cut a "special" mat for them. This takes time and skill. They don't want to provide the time and skill - I'm expected to supply this. I will, at about 250 dollars an hour. I assure you that's what it's worth to me - I'm a busy person and expect to be paid for my time and equipment. Then comes the issue of a print or mat project which I may be promoting in my shop as well. I want this design for myself and prefer not to share it. I may be willing to share it for a price with a framer from outside my market. Don't expect someone with a CMC to provide creativity for you - it isn't going to happen. If you farm out CMC work you are just going to get the basics.

Corporate logos can be reworked into dxf files - that's the easy part. But some will cut successfully in mats and some won't. The big learning thing after mastering CAD and dxf files is understanding what files will cut and what files won't. It's the physical practicality of cutting mats that gives the limits. Try cutting 2 openings less than 1/8th inch apart in a mat with your manual mat cutter. The mat will fall apart because of the overcuts on the back of the mat. Some logos are easy to cut and others are simply too complicated or have some lines too close together or curves too tight for a CMC or any mat cutter. Find some logos and try cutting them with your manual mat cutter - this will give you some understanding of the limits of CMC's.
 
Apologies to wally because this is a bit off-topic. During the discussion on cmc differences a while back I had asked about the distinctions, advantages/disadvantages between servo and stepper motors. Didn't get a reply, but just read an outstanding summary of the characteristics of each type of system on the Hitchhiker forum presented by Mark Eaton of Eclipse.

It's so detailed that it may make one's eyes cross. For those of us cursed with an engineering background, however, it may be the best information summary ever presented on the subject. Of particular interest was the bit about torque and how that related to the accuracy of the motor system.

I personally feel that I now have enough knowledge about the subject to be reasonably dangerous.
 
Those of us with engineering backgrounds have to be carefull as we may run into occasions where we are better off being carpenters or framers. Sometimes the real world is better with a little less technology. Being able to move a limit switch a nudge or two may be quicker and simpler than reading programing tech stuff for 2 weeks. Engineers are at their most dangerous when they tell how good something is because of big numbers found in literature when in fact they have never actually done the job at hand.

My proudest moment in Engineering was at a dinner held when I left the engineering department of a large company. The maintenance manager toasted me as "the engineer that designs things that actually work!" I'd still be an engineer but when the last project ended I found I liked the small town settled down life. So I'm a framer and am more interested in how well and how easily a CMC cuts a mat than in torque curves of electric motors.
 
Scarfinger, how true about the technical side of things.

In terms of my own personal experiences, .......

My first leased CMC had a stepper and I purchased a CMC with a stepper motor because in 21 years of maintenance, I approved significantly more money for a single servo repair than many stepper repairs combined. Any of my technicians and some skilled operators could repair/replace a stepper. Many times, we were required to fly a factory technician to the site for servo repairs. My technicians usually were better trained than local vendor reps because the local reps did not work on the particular equipment day in and day out; The local reps did not receive adequate training to make servo repairs/replacement or to make a tedious calibration involved as a result of a servo replacement. The costs involved were required whether or not the equipment was in warranty when flying a factory representative to our location to take care of servo related issues.

As originally stated, both types have advantages and disadvantages. The difference will most likely be apparent WHEN repairs are necessary, not "IF" repairs are necessary. Anything mechanical will eventually have some problem.

Rick - CPF cm
The Frugal Framer
Coeur d'Alene, ID


[This message has been edited by Frugal Framer (edited May 07, 2001).]
 
Create a Post
Back
Top