All you need is paper and scissors............

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C

Candy

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Feb 9, 2005
Posts
1,543
Loc
Holland, MI
I have to share this............

Today a customer committed of 4 brings in a really nice watercolor that is probably 40 years old for framing. We pick a silk mat with a conservation 2nd mat, fillet, museum glass, nice frame. I give them the price. The husband is totally shocked while the rest of the committee loves everything. Then he says, "Well, all you really need is paper and scissors to frame that." I looked up at him, started to laugh and told him that quote was going to go on the internet tonight when I got home. So there you have it.......... It gave us all a good laugh!!!
 
We had a flock of "geeeeez why so expensive :icon11: " today too.

Lady comes in with roughly a 50 x 16 sized print. Found 3 great over sized mattes to go with them, 2 being fabric ones (cha ching), musuem glass and a nice 3 inch moulding. When I gave her the price she flipped.

She then commented on how she might just buy a bunch of cheap 8x10 wall frames, cut the print up and place the pieces in different sections.

I just gave her a blank stare and told her, well, how about using wallpaper paste and gluing it to the wall. Her eyes glowed, I think she thought I was serious. :icon9:

Then we had another one complain about the line for "guest" to wait in to be rung up. Can't please everyone :shrug:
 
Candy, funny about the scissors and paper.

I just had a new customer come in with two water colors from a trip to Poland. The artist had cut some faux mats out of paper with scissors. The customer said they probably weren't proper mats. Picked out some nice rag mats / frame / MG glass for around $500. She had also commented that they had just moved in from out of State and that she had probably spend enough with her last framer over the years to have bought his shop. Looking forward to replacing many more of her paper mats from her many travels.
 
A few years ago, I had a guy in his early sixties who brought in a squadron patch that his father had left him. It was originally supposed to be sewn onto a W.W.II flight jacket for the Army Air Force.

He wanted it simple, so we chose a black mat with a circular opening mounted on a black substrate, glass and a simple black document frame. The cost was no more than $65 as I recall. When he picked it up he appeared pleased.

A few days later, I got a call from his "girlfriend" who lit into me for overcharging him. She stated that she was a teacher’s aide in an elementary school and she could have cut the mat out of construction paper and mounted the patch with Elmer’s Glue. How dare I take advantage of her boyfriend?

The puzzling thing was that she wasn’t with him during the design process – he had come in alone. I gently asked her why she hadn’t said anything before I had done the work, knowing that she wasn’t here. She simply said that I was a rip-off artist then hung up on me.

Ahh, another satisfied customer.
 
I agree that commitees can be vexing.
A couple weeks ago, I had five people come in
to look at framing on a poster. A couple
in their forties were the owners of the art, but
one of the older ladies, perhaps in her late sixties,
had their high admiration as a source of aesthetic
guidance.

The print was smallish, maybe twelve by seventeen,
and of a dusky winter scene. I rarely get this, but they
came in determined that it have a white mat. I'm fine
with doing those when it's appropriate, but on this
soft, dusky piece, it was awful. A blindingly stark
distraction that overpowered the piece. I'm very good
at guiding people to what looks best on their piece, but
this family was 'cast in stone' on white when they walked
in the door.

I was designing with the couple, and periodically the
elder stateswoman would stop looking around the shop
and appear before us, granting her opinion of the affairs
at hand and offering her suggestions as to what was
far more appropriate. I remained calm and helpful, but
it sure did muck things up. Chiefly, because I would have
already discussed some element of the design with them,
then she'd come mincing over and say something about
the importance of blah blah thing (glass type, whether to
mount it, etc....) in a way that implied I hadn't thought of
it. I would then have to go back to the subject, say, 'Yes,
that's why, when we were discussing this a few minutes
ago, I told them this and that about it.' She really threw
a wrench in the gears, and it made the process awkward.

They didn't end up framing it, and I wondered if they
had just come in alone if things would have turned out
differently. It was like their trust in her abilities outweighed
their ability to choose something they would like in
their home.
 
A group like that, Shayla, will be found sadly trouping from frame shop to frame shop with no resolution - taking up valuable design time at shops along the way and adding to those folks' impressions that frame shops don't know anything about design and are heinous overchargers.

Lose-lose situation all around.
 
So true. It makes me glad that I hardly ever
get them in.

As for price, if someone is new with us, I usually
find a way to give them a gentle heads-up before
we spend much time on the design process. I tell
them the range that framing such a piece can usually
fall into, and then say that if that works for them,
I'll be happy to look at mats and frames. I've already
told them that we give 'free design estimates with no
obligation whatsoever', and I say that once we've
found an idea they like, I'll let them know exactly what
it would cost. That does a lot to help avoid sticker shock.
But so much of how this works is a matter of social
smoothness and of being able to read people.

Two people could have the exact same script, and one
might make customers feel hesitant while the other
helps them to feel relaxed and eager to explore the
design possibilities. I feel good about how I've learned
over the years to help them feel comfortable in the
process, and that comfort level, along with their
satisfaction at job's end, is the reason so many keep
coming back. There's nothing unique about the
fact that this works for me. It's what every one of
you out there who's a successful designer would also
say, and it's the secret to turning a first time drop-in
into a longtime loyal customer.
 
It is unfortunate that in today's world there are many people who are bound and determined to be miserable to themselves and to everyone they meet no matter what. I can only feel sorry for them and think how happy I am that I am content and wish I could find a way to wave a magic wand so that they could feel what I feel about life, the universe and everything.

We cannot win all of these battles and we just have to sigh and move on to the 99.999999% of customers who think we walk on water and pull rabbets out of our hats for them.
 
I cringe slightly when two people come in together for a design.
I develop an obvious tic with the arrival of three.
More than three and I begin to sob uncontrollably.
 
shayla said:
...they came in determined that it have a white mat. I'm fine with doing those when it's appropriate, but on this soft, dusky piece, it was awful. A blindingly stark distraction that overpowered the piece.
Click to expand...
As we've discussed, I'm not a fan of white mats either. My usual solution is to try to go for one of the "flannel" textures, someof which are subtle enough that they might be acceptable to the customer, but at least you have an element in there to tone down the starkness a bit. (There are also the very pale Crescent colors like Micro Mint, Barely Blue, etc. that have slight tints of color. Sometimes that's enough to make a difference.)
prospero said:
Call me Mr Cynical if you like, but that sounds like she has got her eye firmly fixed on her future inheritance and you are cutting into it (on however small a scale). .:faintthud: :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
OK, "Mr. Cynical!" Very astute observation, however.
;) Rick
 
From today: What do you do when you show someone some Degas prints that fit their description of what they are looking for perfectly and they reply with "That's too modern!"
 
When I hear "why so expensive" I say "it's because I don't like you" and "for anyone else I only charge $30". haha... just kidding ya know. :)
 
PETA... People Eating Tasty Animals.

Right, Doug?
 
Famous quote

Many years ago, on Christmas Eve someone I vaguely knew (not a cutomer, though) came in and asked to have a mat cut for an item he wanted to give as a gift. I agreed to do it (it was almost closing time, and I was EXHAUSTED - remember, this was years ago when the Christmas season meant tons of overtime.) I gave him the price, and he had a fit. As he stalked out he declared "What is a mat, after all, but a piece of cardboard with a hole cut in it!" This quote lives on in our shop to this day. He's never returned, thank goodness.
Marge Miccio
http://artifactsgallerytrenton.com
 
one of my favorites was a lady who wanted a poster drymounted (it had quite a bit of damaged and definatly needed to be dry mounted) I quoted her a price of like $25; she said that seemed way too expensive, after all she said, "I could do it my self with a little rubber cement and some cardboard"

I tried not to laugh, I havent heard of anyone using rubber cement since I was in the 4th grade
 
Great stories!!! Love to hear about other framers experiences. I will add that this customer did drop about $300 on a double silk mat, fillet, and museum glass to boot.

I did lose a committee sale today.........older gentleman brought his daughter along. She knew she could get it done cheaper. They were 3 collectible News items about the Detroit Tigers...............oh, well................I hate committees.
 
Customer brought in new prints to replace the flimsy ones I had framed for him last week (Xeroxes) - I ended up having to cut new mats for the second set of prints even though, as he put it, ""Well, they're the same size but the borders are wider - that's all."

That's all, folks!
 
johnny said:
From today: What do you do when you show someone some Degas prints that fit their description of what they are looking for perfectly and they reply with "That's too modern!"
Click to expand...

I so understand the frustration!! I had a customer walk in the shop, look around a bit and then asked if I had the "Master Bedroom" by Andrew Wyeth. Thinking I was about to make a sale, I walked over to a bin and pulled it out. She was excited and now I know I have a sale. Then the person who is with her asks her how is she going to get that home on a plane. I suggested I roll it in a tube, but that wasn't good enough. Then I suggested she mail it to herself (post office is two short blocks away). No, too much trouble. Then I suggested I have a copy drop shipped and it would be there when she got home. No, that was too much trouble, too. End result, no sale that day. :(
 
You can believe this or not, as you choose. I once had a customer bring a small snap shot photo in who wanted it matted but wanted me to include part of the image that went off the photo. It wasn't actually on the photo. He said that piece of furniture was longer than shown, can you show all of it?

It wasn't there?????

How do you reply to that without seeming rude?
 
Sorry, but rude would be my first choice. Actually it would seem rude to him but a serious question to me... after I stared at him for a minute to make sure he wasn't pulling my leg.

After that, all bets are off and he is open season.
 
A couple of years ago I framed for a customer, a senior photo of her son. In the photo he's looking to the right. Now the customer comes in with a senior photo of her daughter. In the photo she's looking to the left. Customer wants the photo framed just like the previous one, and says she wants me to make sure they (the boy and girl) are looking at each other when the frames are hung on the wall. Uh, okay................. I could hardly wait for her to leave the store so I could call my hubby with my "joke of the day"!
 
Petengeth said:
You can believe this or not, as you choose. I once had a customer bring a small snap shot photo in who wanted it matted but wanted me to include part of the image that went off the photo. It wasn't actually on the photo. He said that piece of furniture was longer than shown, can you show all of it?

It wasn't there?????

How do you reply to that without seeming rude?
Click to expand...


If the customer had brought that in before the age of photoshop had arrived on the scene that might have been kind of a hard request to handle. In todays world, I would say sure no problem, that will only be an additional $99.95. I would scan and send it off to Digital Custom for them to do their magic. :D
 
Digital custom would still need something to work with. Depending on what type of furniture it was, they might not be able to create the missing part without at least an image of the whole piece of furniture to see what the rest of it looks like. You can't always just copy and paste the piece you have and get it to look right.
 
AnneL said:
Digital custom would still need something to work with. Depending on what type of furniture it was, they might not be able to create the missing part without at least an image of the whole piece of furniture to see what the rest of it looks like. You can't always just copy and paste the piece you have and get it to look right.
Click to expand...

Anne,

I think j Paul was trying to be funny. :p:p
 
You could try that but there is no guarantee you would be able to get the halves to line up right. It isn't always as easy as it seems. If it's on an angle, you may not be able to twist and stretch it to get it to look correct. You would also have to add a background to match, which may be even harder. Of course, this assumes the furniture in question is something symetrical like a couch.
 
Kim had a woman come in one day with a photo of her daughter and she wanted a whole list of improvements done to it, including whitening the teeth - and in pre-photoshop days this was a nightmare job for even the best retoucher - Kim tried her best to tell the woman that the teeth would look unnatural but the woman insisted so Kim made them as white as she possibly could and when the woman saw the finished photo she went ballistic and screamed that her daughter had "clown teeth."

Of course, nowadays, everyone has "clown teeth" when they go to their dentists and have teeth-whitening procedures done so they have those preternaturally glowing chompers. One of those things that fascinates me and I cannot tear my eyes away - very distracting! LOL!
 
I think about what it will look like for archaelogists who
dig up these bodies a few centuries from now. All the
normal old bones, and then those blindingly white teeth.
 
Just think of how photoshop (and retouching the old fashioned way before that) has altered our history: people added to photos - people removed - half of the fun of looking at old pictures is to try to identify all of the folks squinting into the sun.....
 
Artifacts Gal said:
Many years ago, on Christmas Eve someone I vaguely knew (not a cutomer, though) came in and asked to have a mat cut for an item he wanted to give as a gift. I agreed to do it (it was almost closing time, and I was EXHAUSTED - remember, this was years ago when the Christmas season meant tons of overtime.) I gave him the price, and he had a fit. As he stalked out he declared "What is a mat, after all, but a piece of cardboard with a hole cut in it!" This quote lives on in our shop to this day. He's never returned, thank goodness.
Marge Miccio
http://artifactsgallerytrenton.com
Click to expand...

What is there about Christmas? My worst story took place on December 23rd.

"Can you frame this for Christmas? (meaning tomorrow)?"

"I can, but it will have a rush charge"

"Well, how hard can it be? It's only 4 sticks of wood and a piece of paper!"
 
Ah, the pre-Photoshop days of trying to whiten teeth. I wrecked my eyesight looking through the magnifier on the negative retouching machines and applying dye, always hoping the results would come back looking good. If not, I was in for hours of dye work on the prints to blend it or possibly redoing the negative!

I don't miss those days at all but those skills have often helped me solve difficult problems when working in Photoshop. A lot is possible with it but some times you just have to decide, is it really worth spending that much time on it or can I live with it the way it is?
 
customers!

I had a woman come in with a photo I had framed a few days before, with the same image only larger. I explained that it wasn't a problem but that I would need to use another matt. There was a plaque that would need to be removed and replaced on the new matt. She just looked at me and told me that I could just cut the matt at the bottom and slide the matt down. I just stared at her until she realized that the matt wouldn't regenerate at the top. Then she wanted me to do it for free!
 
Customer walked in yesterday and says, “I’m constructing a heart shaped collage, can you cut glass in the shape of a heart?”

Yes, I can, you were planning on a heart shaped frame?

“Uh, no, a rectangular frame with my heart shaped collage inside it.”:nuts:

Why don’t we cut the mats in the shape of a heart to fit the collage and cut the glass in a rectangle to fit the frame?

“Oh, yes, that would be wonderful, Ill bring it in!”:faintthud:

Clive.
 
Ooooh, you Custom Framers in Virginia are such cleaver people, Clive. :D

I think you have a customer for life . . . as long as they can remember you.:D

Some days things seem so . . . well, confusing. :icon11: :D

Thanks.... I needed the laugh this morning.
 
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