Resolved Advice: Mounting Papyrus on Coarse Burlap?

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Jleschak

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Hello All,

Need to get some perspectives here. I am framing 2 papyrus which have been pre-mounted onto a coarse and reasonably rigid burlap. They are from Egypt and best described as a higher end papyrus from a specialty shop, the burlap mounting is strong and stable. The size on the smaller one is 25” x 36” and larger one is 36” x 74”.

My need for information specifically is around mounting. If there is no burlap, I have been using a heavy Japanese tissue color matched to the backing (most often black or gold) using a hedgehog method with Klucel-G with success. The course burlap make that not feasible IMO.

I am not interested in dry mount nor DCO.

My current direction is to “sew” wide spaced thread attachment points on a grid spaced 5 or so inches apart, then fed through a mat board cut 1/4” smaller than the actual papyrus area. The thread being carefully fed behind the burlap strands such as to not penetrate the papyrus itself. Those individual threads then are passed through holes punched with an awl in the same spots and secured,,,using a tissue template to match positions. These are thus a grid of individual threads and not a single large sewn stitching. To secure the thread, I’ll need some additional structural support in back, but can work that out.

With the burlap backing, I am thinking expansion should be minimal, but any actual experiences are welcome.

Set transportation aside for the topic. Largest will be acrylic and smaller will be glass, but plenty of content around on previous post to guide me on that topic.

Thoughts on this approach? Risks? Other ideas? Am I way overthinking this and there is a simpler method? I am not yet at a point of no return and my direction should be reversible.

Thanks in advance.
John
 

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How about sewing the whole piece to a larger piece of black fabric, then stretching that, around a covered strainer?
You would need a frame deep enough to accommodate, and with a wide enough rabbet for spacers. Since the big one
already needs a wide rabbet, to allow for acrylic expansion/shrinkage, I'm guessing you already planned it, but worth a mention.
 
That looks like a very lightweight low thread count fabric. It could be a recycled shipping bag that was not cleaned before attaching to the papyrus. Coming from a "higher end" shop in Egypt doesn't guarantee quality. As I recall, all the the papyrus comes from a single village.
 
I see no issue with your plan.
If you are planning on showing the edges of the fabric, consider sewing through a stretched fabric into a fiberglass screening support behind that. (stretched fabric over stretched screening)
Fiberglass screening has no elasticity and is chemically inert. It and the backing fabric will allow any acid gassing from the papyrus and the burlap to escape trough the back of the frame.

Please follow-up with your solution and the finished product.
 
How about sewing the whole piece to a larger piece of black fabric, then stretching that, around a covered strainer?
You would need a frame deep enough to accommodate, and with a wide enough rabbet for spacers. Since the big one
already needs a wide rabbet, to allow for acrylic expansion/shrinkage, I'm guessing you already planned it, but worth a mention.
I like this idea for the larger especially, giving more contact points and flexibility, and reasonable implementation costs. Rabbet shouldn’t be an issue and accounted for on both, but for larger one, was brainstorming a perpendicular rabbet for which the acrylic will slide in to, but will require I insert it before i do the joining…doable with the MasterClamps i think. I think overall rabit depth is 1.5” or so right now an d could extend with RabbetSpace for another 3/8” or 1/2” i guess, usually only use in extreme situations…due to size, would be more likely to make my own extension which tapers out if i go there, but a nice idea overall which will generate some solid direction. The small one, so far think i will stay the course, at least it validates some basic principles I am working with and not too high risk. Thanks for the brain cells.
 
I see no issue with your plan.
If you are planning on showing the edges of the fabric, consider sewing through a stretched fabric into a fiberglass screening support behind that. (stretched fabric over stretched screening)
Fiberglass screening has no elasticity and is chemically inert. It and the backing fabric will allow any acid gassing from the papyrus and the burlap to escape trough the back of the frame.

Please follow-up with your solution and the finished product.
Let me look at that option for the larger one along with Shaylas idea.

I’ll definitely post the outcome. Thanks for the idea generation. John

Edit: its hitting me more and more on this…its clicking….takes some time at my age….
 
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When I build something, I always take into account what a next framer might have to do. Your idea of inserting the plexiglass before joining would probably be more difficult to ever take it apart if something would happen to the plexiglass.
Why not do a stacked frame instead? Use the first one around the piece, put plexiglass right on top of that and cap it with another frame.

I would be a bit hesitant to try to sew through the burlap right behind the papyrus. If it is truly stuck down, then you won't achieve what you need to and might weaken the burlap, or, poke through the papyrus. You might be able to stitch close to the papyrus but I don't know if the burlap will unravel.

Interesting problem, let us know what you will do please.
 
I have an open shop meaning it’s a warehouse with open design area. Customers see everything I do. One customer today was so interested in this job they wanted to come and do some of the sewing.
 

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have you considered mounting it to a backing board with Franks Fabric adhesive - which can be reheated and reversed? The burlap isn't the papyrus.. hence little value IMHO
 
When I build something, I always take into account what a next framer might have to do. Your idea of inserting the plexiglass before joining would probably be more difficult to ever take it apart if something would happen to the plexiglass.
Why not do a stacked frame instead? Use the first one around the piece, put plexiglass right on top of that and cap it with another frame.

I would be a bit hesitant to try to sew through the burlap right behind the papyrus. If it is truly stuck down, then you won't achieve what you need to and might weaken the burlap, or, poke through the papyrus. You might be able to stitch close to the papyrus but I don't know if the burlap will unravel.

Interesting problem, let us know what you will do please.
Yeah. I was concerned there initially, but The burlap has a nice heft to it and well adhered. I thought about just stitching around close to papyrus, but the edges are the weakest point and likely a higher risk in my assessment, and worried about sagging down the road.

The stitching was actually pretty easy with a curved needle.
 
have you considered mounting it to a backing board with Franks Fabric adhesive - which can be reheated and reversed? The burlap isn't the papyrus.. hence little value IMHO
No, not really interested in that approach at this time. Controlling glue and in-reversible Keep the ideas coming. If I had more experience with these materials, I might consider.
 
I have an open shop meaning it’s a warehouse with open design area. Customers see everything I do. One customer today was so interested in this job they wanted to come and do some of the sewing.
Better check your liability insurance :)

I don't think I would ever want a customer to work on another customer's piece. LOL Plus I don't allow customers in my workshop (they can peek in, just not enter). Just because of that liability
 
Oh I’d never do it for those reasons and many more, but that’s the type of relationship I value….just the fact that they offered tells me I’m doing things right.
 
I hear you. Building customer relationships is extremely important. I have many who just text me to see how I am, if I haven't seen them for a few months. A lot of them become friends.

Sounds like you found the right solution for this framing challenge.
 
Ok…I sure I am in for an earful, but this is what I have done on the smaller one and have no doubt I have violated umpteen preservation and conservation laws, although it is reversible, relatively easy to remove the threads, no adhesive or glue on the papyrus or burlap.

I did run the treads through various points with a 1/2” wide “stitch”, with both ends of the stitch though a mat board which had matching holes. Then I was concerned that the thread might over time tear the mat board between the knot, so i took a painted strap hanger and cut small segments or eyelets to go between the mat board and the knot; I secure the eyelet to the mat board with CA glue (i looked through posts and other than recommended for poly frames, nothing mentioned so figured I would be relatively ok)..these also had nice smooth edges so would not cut the thread. Then I tied a half knot and while taped taught (but not too taught), put a dot of CA glue on that and further wrapped it around the eyelet with some thin CA glue. Holds firm, should lie flat, seems highly secure and stable overall. Looked at the front side and so far it looks perfect to my expectations.
(Pictures attached)

For the larger, I am still thinking if / now to scale this technique…or will once I come down from this glue high. Perhaps combine this with a fiberglass mesh/lattice of some type instead of a mat board.

Ok…bring it on, I have thick skin…
 

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It looks like a good solution to me.
I've been at this a while and have never seen a papyrus mounted to fabric, let alone burlap.
See my tag line (not the Cleese quote).
 
Relative to the thread gauge, they are a little heavier (steel), figure play it safe…and “anything worth doing is worth over-engineering”….i have my flaws.
 
This is the finished smaller one…the mat is a Crescent Oil-Rubbed Bronze.

I had to do a revised quote for the larger with all the time and materials it will take…they pay pull out. I wouldnt be upset…but i do like a challenge.
 

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