Al E
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Does anyone remember the website that lists all kinds of adhesives and there optimal uses? I can't find it in search.
Thanks
Thanks
adhesive website?
- Thread starter Al E
- Start date
www.thistothat.com
Of coarse no real framer ever glues anything. I'm sure this is just for reference.
Of coarse no real framer ever glues anything. I'm sure this is just for reference.
Right, Jay. That's why we all have 18-20 different kinds of glue in our shops. For reference.
The advice given on that site may be OK for consumer uses where preservation is not an issue, but there is not much useful information for professional framers.
For paper to paper they recommend, among other things, Uhu or 3M-77 spray.
If you want adhesive advice for framing, you will get better information from Grumblers.
For paper to paper they recommend, among other things, Uhu or 3M-77 spray.
If you want adhesive advice for framing, you will get better information from Grumblers.
preservator
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Please listen to Jim's advice on this topic. Adhesion is an activity that entails change and it
is very difficult to reverse, completely. Starch
paste, animal based adhesives, and a very few
synthetic adhesives have worked well, in the long
run.
Hugh
is very difficult to reverse, completely. Starch
paste, animal based adhesives, and a very few
synthetic adhesives have worked well, in the long
run.
Hugh
Al E
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Thanks all,
It is for a pocket billiard (pool) table. On the bar size (7ft.) the cloth is attached to the slate with adhesive on the underside (like stretching a canvas). On the larger sizes it is stapled to the wood backing of the slate. A billiard mechanic suggested 3M 77 spray which, I must sadly admit, I had. Just wanted to check that site. It listed 77 spray for fabric to ceramic, the closest listing to slate.
It is for a pocket billiard (pool) table. On the bar size (7ft.) the cloth is attached to the slate with adhesive on the underside (like stretching a canvas). On the larger sizes it is stapled to the wood backing of the slate. A billiard mechanic suggested 3M 77 spray which, I must sadly admit, I had. Just wanted to check that site. It listed 77 spray for fabric to ceramic, the closest listing to slate.
This brief editorial is not intended as a criticism toward anyone - least of all Jim Miller or Hugh.
I just think it's interesting that, when a framer asks for info about an adhesive site, we all assume he's going to use it to glue down a Picasso original.
I don't know Al but, from what I've seen, he's not an idiot.
So please, if I ever ask for advice about fertilizer, don't assume I'm making explosives.
BTW, I have that website bookmarked from the first mention, since I'm always gluin' something to something else.
That would be the adhesive website, not the explosives website.
I just think it's interesting that, when a framer asks for info about an adhesive site, we all assume he's going to use it to glue down a Picasso original.
I don't know Al but, from what I've seen, he's not an idiot.
So please, if I ever ask for advice about fertilizer, don't assume I'm making explosives.
BTW, I have that website bookmarked from the first mention, since I'm always gluin' something to something else.
That would be the adhesive website, not the explosives website.
That site filters everything through the filter of assuming that the end user has common sense. Those that protest information like this don’t allow the framer the same grace.
You could not spray the bottom of a ceramic plate with 77 and expect it to hold upright on suede matboard. But if you wanted to stick a round piece of suede on the bottom of the plate, 77 works great!
For paper to paper and for paper to wood it lists Elmers Wood Glue. Well if you were gluing matboards together or matboards to wood, I think you would be hard pressed to find a better solution.
Jim, they do list the glues you laugh at but they follow up by qualifying them. It clearly says that Uhu doesn’t have a very tight bond. Who knows, maybe a framer might actually need that characteristic in their glue?
This site isn’t evil and I find it quite helpful.
You could not spray the bottom of a ceramic plate with 77 and expect it to hold upright on suede matboard. But if you wanted to stick a round piece of suede on the bottom of the plate, 77 works great!
For paper to paper and for paper to wood it lists Elmers Wood Glue. Well if you were gluing matboards together or matboards to wood, I think you would be hard pressed to find a better solution.
Jim, they do list the glues you laugh at but they follow up by qualifying them. It clearly says that Uhu doesn’t have a very tight bond. Who knows, maybe a framer might actually need that characteristic in their glue?
This site isn’t evil and I find it quite helpful.
Point taken with no offense, Ron.
I agree that Al probably wouldn't consider gluing down a TK, let alone a Picasso.
But I think the advice on that adhesive site would be equally inadequate for non-framing applications. For attaching cloth (would that be felt?) to a slate pool table, 3M 77 would be near the bottom of my list of adhesives. Surely there's a BEVA product that would serve the purpose better. How about acrylic gel?
Also, if you develop explosive urges, the fertilizer site probably isn't your best resource, either.
I agree that Al probably wouldn't consider gluing down a TK, let alone a Picasso.
But I think the advice on that adhesive site would be equally inadequate for non-framing applications. For attaching cloth (would that be felt?) to a slate pool table, 3M 77 would be near the bottom of my list of adhesives. Surely there's a BEVA product that would serve the purpose better. How about acrylic gel?
Also, if you develop explosive urges, the fertilizer site probably isn't your best resource, either.
Is anyone else more confused now than before they read the previous post?
I admire and respect the advise of both Jim and definetly Hugh, but I always thought that Japanese
hinges were attached with a starch /rice based adhesive.( maybe the technical definitions of adhesives and glues are some how diferent?)
I also thought that while funny we all knew that Real farmers do use adhesives.
And even futhermore the very replies from Jim ,Hugh and all others are in deed refernces on the use of adhesives and we are all USEING them right now.
But then didn't we have the discussion that not ALL work requires C/P treatments and knowing the difference and when to apply them by utilizeing the information gained from threads like these and FACTs,and other educational venues as sources of reference will probably keep us from useing the wrong things .
But then I am slow as the posting of this indicates ,since there were more posted before I could submit it, and I am always confused so maybe I just missed something while I tried to hunt and peck at the keyboard.LOL
BUDDY
I admire and respect the advise of both Jim and definetly Hugh, but I always thought that Japanese
hinges were attached with a starch /rice based adhesive.( maybe the technical definitions of adhesives and glues are some how diferent?)
I also thought that while funny we all knew that Real farmers do use adhesives.
And even futhermore the very replies from Jim ,Hugh and all others are in deed refernces on the use of adhesives and we are all USEING them right now.
But then didn't we have the discussion that not ALL work requires C/P treatments and knowing the difference and when to apply them by utilizeing the information gained from threads like these and FACTs,and other educational venues as sources of reference will probably keep us from useing the wrong things .
But then I am slow as the posting of this indicates ,since there were more posted before I could submit it, and I am always confused so maybe I just missed something while I tried to hunt and peck at the keyboard.LOL
BUDDY
Framerguy
PFG, Picture Framing God
Well, Buddy, I was a bit confused before these recent posts but everything is clear as mud now!
I think that the glue site is OK for general information and, if you check out their list of "glue of the month" glues, you will find at least a half dozen that are actively mentioned here on the G and used in alot of frameshops.
I think that a site dedicated to the general public's information for home use will be suspect when it comes to concise and specific information that many of us professionals depend on for making our decisions.
It is a good site as far as it goes and I have earmarked it on my "Favorites" list as I must have missed it the last time it surfaced.
Framerguy
I think that the glue site is OK for general information and, if you check out their list of "glue of the month" glues, you will find at least a half dozen that are actively mentioned here on the G and used in alot of frameshops.
I think that a site dedicated to the general public's information for home use will be suspect when it comes to concise and specific information that many of us professionals depend on for making our decisions.
It is a good site as far as it goes and I have earmarked it on my "Favorites" list as I must have missed it the last time it surfaced.
Framerguy
Just a quick search of "pool table felt 77" turned up several pages of dealers who apparently don't know better. It is amazing how every one of them have found that same website
Perhaps you could turn the billiards industry upside down. You could actually be the next "Jim Miller". Oh wait you are Jim Miller...... Well you get the idea.
Perhaps you could turn the billiards industry upside down. You could actually be the next "Jim Miller". Oh wait you are Jim Miller...... Well you get the idea.
Tom I have always held that I can learn something from anything vaguely related to Framing.Some Classes I have attened are proof.Even if it is what not to do or use.
With that thought in mind i read over most of www.thistothat.com and did a search of Webster's definition of "ADHESIVE" and the Therasorus for "GLUE",here is what I found.
adhesive
any substance that is capable of holding materials together in a functional manner by surface attachment that resists separation. “Adhesive” as a general term includes cement, mucilage, glue, and ...
Entry Word: glue
Function: noun
Text: a substance used to stick things together <used glue to stick the photo in the album>
Synonyms adhesive, cement, size
Related Words epoxy, epoxy resin, library paste, mucilage, superglue; dope, goo, gum
Many hair sprays (which are really just adhesives for the hair) are made largely of cellulose, the major ingredient of the cell walls of plants. Ethyl Cellulose adhesives dry quickly, do not remain tacky, and wash out with water. What more would you want in a hair adhesive.
Starch based adhesives have been used for thousands of years. Starch on its own has no adhesive qualities. It must be boiled in water, which makes the starch granules swell, to become gelatinous, which creates its adhesive quality
Also there are some good bits of information to be found in the segment Titled "Glue Philosophy"
So don't you think even if it is intended for the general public and not US framing PROFESSIONALS, this is still a USEFULL REFERENCE for a group which doesn't use Adhesives,since we only do C/P work?
BUDDY
With that thought in mind i read over most of www.thistothat.com and did a search of Webster's definition of "ADHESIVE" and the Therasorus for "GLUE",here is what I found.
adhesive
any substance that is capable of holding materials together in a functional manner by surface attachment that resists separation. “Adhesive” as a general term includes cement, mucilage, glue, and ...
Entry Word: glue
Function: noun
Text: a substance used to stick things together <used glue to stick the photo in the album>
Synonyms adhesive, cement, size
Related Words epoxy, epoxy resin, library paste, mucilage, superglue; dope, goo, gum
Many hair sprays (which are really just adhesives for the hair) are made largely of cellulose, the major ingredient of the cell walls of plants. Ethyl Cellulose adhesives dry quickly, do not remain tacky, and wash out with water. What more would you want in a hair adhesive.
Starch based adhesives have been used for thousands of years. Starch on its own has no adhesive qualities. It must be boiled in water, which makes the starch granules swell, to become gelatinous, which creates its adhesive quality
Also there are some good bits of information to be found in the segment Titled "Glue Philosophy"
So don't you think even if it is intended for the general public and not US framing PROFESSIONALS, this is still a USEFULL REFERENCE for a group which doesn't use Adhesives,since we only do C/P work?
BUDDY
Al E
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
As a point of general info: the material used on pool tables is woven wool. The cheap novelty items use felt and some rooms use such a low quality cloth that it seems like felt. Some is a wool/nylon blend. The best, Simonis in Belgium since 1680, is worsted woven wool and very expensive.
A very similar thing happened here. It seems that the Chief of Police was caught surfing porn sites. There was big "to do" about it. As it turns out he was just doing research on gang activity.
I wasn't aware of the current gang problem in Owensboro or its links to the internet porn industry. Thankfully we have guys like that watching out for us dumbski's.