acid free or regular matboard

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Paul123

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Pennsylvania
Hi everyone,

I am about to stock up on matboard. I've been buying regular crescent matboard because its cheaper and seemed like the smart move since I am just starting out.

Now friends and family are asking me to do some jobs for them and I guess I feel guilty that I am not using the higher quality materials. I am doing mainly peoples photographs and some want me to do photos, which they no longer have a negative for. Should I just go ahead and stock up on all acid free matboard or does it even make a difference if its cold mounted and non-conservative anyways?
 
Paul, I use regular paper mat on the majority of the jobs that come throught the door but the Alpha/Rag is always used when it is important. The better board always looks nicer but when price is an issue its paper.

I started in this industry working for a very high end conservator and he let the customer make the choice when it was just basic items being framed. I don't know whether you have a regular delivery or a local distributor where you pick up your supplies but that too can make a difference. As far as conservation goes once you stick it down with goo the art isn't gaining anything by using better board.

I stocked the paper board in bulk because that is what most of my customers want because of price. I had a customer come in today that was a framer a few years ago and she had a football ticket and some photos of her son and the game winning fumble. Since there was a ticket involved I asked as I always do about conservation materials and she said just use the paper. She also said that if she had gotten to my store last week as she had planned it would have been Alpha. Turns out that when the election returns came in she showed up at work on Wednesday and was no longer employed.

You have to make a decision as to what price point you would like to reside in and make the choice based on that. Conservation board will always look better in the long run but it also drives up costs to the consumer. I try to keep my turn around time very short because I do not have much storage space and customers have leaned heavily toward regular paper. I do use some conservation board but would be sitting on a ton of boards that are not moving quickly if I were stocking it.

Now only you and your customer can make the choice as to what you sell and I recommend that you move slowly to determine where your segment of the market lies.
 
Jeff ...I almost always agree with your posts but I can't agree with this one.

The price difference is so insignificant that I can't in good conscience ever suggest saving a couple dollars and using paper mats. The look of acrid yellow puppy poop bevels that will appear within a few years alone, not to mention the lignin staining that will occur to anyone's possession that they feel is special enough to frame is reason enough never to use paper mats.

:icon11:
 
I agree with Dave. I only offer aechival board. The only place you would find paper board is on my mat cutter as backing. I have had jsut a few customers ask for paper to save the cost. I tell them that the price difference is not that much and if they want it done cheap then they should be going to Michaels. I have never lost a customer to that. I also tell them that if they are going to the expence for a custom frame they should do it right the first time.

Dan
 
We have both paper and conservation mats at our shop. As with glass, I explain the differences to people and make recommendations, then let them choose what they want. Over the years, customers have responded to my suggestions to the degree that we now sell mostly conservation mats and conservation clear glass, with about four museum glass jobs a month. More and more people are starting to choose museum and when they do, they won't go back to using the other kinds afterward.

We keep the paper mats around though, and some people do use them. At this point, I'd say we use them on about ten percent of our mats. One thing I've come to over the years is that I won't call wood-based regular paper mats 'acid'free' mats. The reason is that I've had customers who came in with pre-framed items, thinking they'd been conservation framed. I always inform someone about what's already on their piece. I've had people be very surprised, saying, "But my other framer said this was acid-free". It seems misleading to me, so I refer to them as paper mats and conservation mats. I know that alphacellulose mats could also be described as paper, but this is the description that's worked best for me and that people seem to understand the best. Then when I explain the different kinds of conservation boards, I explain about cotton rag and alphacellulose mats that are in that category.
 
Dave and Dan, I agree with you in theory and in fact I think that all framing should be done with fabric mats and closed corner frames with nice mat filets and an 8 ply rag bottom mat.

Then I wake up and realize that it is only a dream and a very pleasant one at that. I have done art restoration, frame restoration closed corner frames and milled my own moulding in the past and that is the old world craftmanship that I love.

In the 80's when Crescent stamped acid free on the paper mat my samples hit the dumpster and I found a source of alpha (Hurlock) that was only 10 cents a sheet more than paper and used it exclusively. Now the cost difference is $4 a sheet and with 3000 sheets in my rack thats $12,000 more for my inventory cost. Most framers start at the top and then sell down when they have to in oreder to save a sale. I start at the bottom and work my way up to the top. When I tell a customer that they must use conservation materials they believe I'm telling them the facts.

Have you ever walked into a beautiful home to find one or two truly high end custom frame jobs and dozens of wally world frames everywhere else. I hate that. Now my customers know there is no reason to go to wally world for any frames. They can get very modestly priced custom framing on everything and they know I will do the right thing when it comes to a piece with value. A digital photo print that they paid 19 cents for can go in paper mat since the photo is just a memory that the kids or grandchildren are going to throw away anyway. While they are alive they can enjoy a custom framed piece that was going to sit in a drawer until they die anyway.

I'm framing an autographed Reba McIntire (spelling?) baseball jacket that is owned by her audio manager for 5 years and he wanted conservation clear glass but I refused to do it with anything less than OP3 because I explaind a broken piece of glass would shred the leather sleeves. A Hollie Hobbie poster on the other hand is going to be tossed before it can fade.

My customers are bringing in the pieces that they framed in a $2 plastic document frame matted with a piece of construction cut with scissors to be custom framed because before they could only custom frame it with a $200 job. Now they can frame it for $49 in a custom frame with double mat and that price is acceptable.

When you bought your car did you get the Jaguar Vanden Plas for $129,000 or did you buy a Chevy, Ford, Honda or Toyota. Why in the world would you buy a Toyota when you are worth all of the luxury, safety and perfomance of the Jaguar. Certainly you are worth more than a 99 cent 8x10 photo print. You should be wrapped in leather and and hold a solid walnut steering wheel. You shoud be able to accelerate from 0 to 60 in 4.7 seconds rather than 15.2 seconds. After all it is all about your safety and comfort not to mention the style that you deserve. Why did you buy 2 Buicks, one for you and one for your wife rather than one Mercedes and a Hooptie. In fact why did you buy a cheap Mercedes and a Hooptie rather than getting the nice Mercedes and just sharing one car.

I don't mean to devalue the theory of all art is a masterpiece but not all humans have the resources to frame everything they want framed but can't afford to do so. Also remember that not all wealthy customers want to be told they have to have the best of everything. Wealthy folks retain their wealth by making decisions about everything they buy. Turns out that the wealthy feel they are being discriminated against because of their address. I am currently in the process of researching and validating an original Picasso. The owner had some simple but important memories that they wanted framed but definately were not going to spend $350 each for these things to be framed because they are cruise photos of which they take about ten cruises a year and couldn't find any reasonable prices no matter how hard they tried. They also were not willing to put them in plastic carp and had ill feelings toward their framer for not allowing them to just do a quality custom frame job using basic materials. They felt they were being taken advantage of because they are wealthy.

These folks will gladly spend $20,000 to frame the Picasso once it is authenticated. They absolutely refuse to spend $250 to frame their daughter's Hanna Montana poster even though they spent $2,000 to take the kid to the concert a thousand miles away. They won't even use Conservation Clear glass on the poster.

These wealthy folks would like to leave some money behind for the kids when they are gone. Turns out they are bitter that 3/4 of every dime they earn goes to the Govt when it is earned and the new administration feels that they should give 3/4 of anything left to the Govt when they die.

Sorry about the tangent but I think that every framer should consider these issues when dealing with these so called "Rich" people. The classes below them think that they don't pay their fair share but when I pay property taxes on my Honda it runs $350 and when they pay taxes on their Jaguar it runs $3,000. I employ nobody and they employ 35.

They may not tell you (if you are high end only) how disapointed they are that you don't offer affordable options but you better believe they tell me how disapointed they are that you (if you are high end only) don't offer other options.

P.S. Dave, you threw me for a loop by changing your avatar because I thought "who is this guy with 3400 posts that I don't know."
 
Two points to remember about Jeff's shop. Look at the name, he is an outlet shop and proud of it. Second when it comes to price, there is not a large difference between say Crescent regular and Crescent Select. But there is a much larger difference from Berkshire board. My price on that is $1.82 which is less then 1/3 of the cost of a Crescent Select and 1/5 of the price of Rag or Bainbridge Alpha.

BTW I only use Artique and Bainbridge Alpha's but I am planning on adding Berkshire boards after the first of the year.
 
A fascinating thread

Obvoiusly I find this subject fascinating - having made and sold mat board for most of my life, and watched how different countries have evolved their choice of which mat board became the standard.
I remember about 1990 going to Norway and Sweden to try and sell my cream core board. I showed it to half a dozen framers and asked them to reccomend a good local distributor. They all told me the same thing " We stopped using cream core in the mid 80's".
So back to the mill in UK and said "If we want to export to Norway and Sweden - then we need to make a conservation quality"
We did and the range sold well.
These days (sad to say) cream core is still the most popular board in UK, but in Norway, Sweden and a few other European countries cream core is no longer stocked by the distributors.
I personally believe that as the price difference (in Europe) between cream and white core is so small - why spoil even a cheap print with a carpy cream core when for a few cents more you can do a decent job. After all you call yourself a custom framer - so anyone stepping in your shop expects quality.

I do remember writing some copy a flier for Conservation white core - TIME TO CHANGE - that went something like this.............

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Most consumer are totally unaware of the various types of mat board and rely on the framer to advise them.
Bespoke (custom) framers in many countries have stopped using cream core
Framers who have made the change, all say they would never change back.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well thats my 2 cents :smiley:
 
I will line up with Dan and Dave on this issue. Bainbridge Papermat and Crescent "standard matt" make excellent backing sheets for the C.M.C and that is the only use I have for them. Not everything I frame is a masterpiece worthy of top-drawer conservation framing but if it is worth hanging on a wall it is at least worth a decent whitecore matt so that it will look good. The price difference between whitecore and "standard" matts is not worth the damage to my reputation.
 
artfolio said:
I will line up with Dan and Dave on this issue. Bainbridge Papermat and Crescent "standard matt" make excellent backing sheets for the C.M.C and that is the only use I have for them. Not everything I frame is a masterpiece worthy of top-drawer conservation framing but if it is worth hanging on a wall it is at least worth a decent whitecore matt so that it will look good. The price difference between whitecore and "standard" matts is not worth the damage to my reputation.
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Same here artfolio... i stock ONLY conservation and whitecore matboards (very, very few whitecore and is used ONLY as top mat). On display i have two items i framed... one with conservation matboards and the other with regular matboards. Both were framed eleven years ago. With this I show and explain to all my customers WHY conservation matboards are #1.

Oh, i HATE the word "acid-free". Crescent started that crappy phrase to help sell their regular matboards a few years ago. If a new customer ask me if i use "acid-free" matboards, i have to explain to them why to use the word "conservation" instead of "acid-free"! What a shame.....

Crescent advertisment:
http://www.americanframe.com/catalog/matboard/matboard-crescentberkshire.html

Crescent® Berkshire Mat Boards
An economical mat for non-archival framing, the Berkshire line has an :smileyshot22: acid-free :soapbox: core and backing with a light cream, white, or black core. With its range of popular colors and quality material, it is the choice for affordable framing.
 
Hey Other Paul,

When you are first starting out, wholesale prices are a consideration, but IMO not a super-major one. Your wholesale price for, say, Crescent Paper (still “acid-free”) will probably be around $7.00/sheet; Crescent Rag, ~$12.00/sheet.

Assuming you cut a 16 x 20 mat from both, your wholesale cost for paper will be $1.75 ($7 / 4 = 1.75) and Rag $3.00 – IMO not a significant difference. When your overall framing is likely to retail over $100, a three or four dollar difference between varieties of mats isn’t going to make a difference to your customer.

Both Rag and Paper have a lot of overlapping colors, so selection shouldn’t be an issue.

I’d go with Crescent Rag or Bainbridge Alpha if I were starting over again, and not even bother with Paper. The quality is better and the bevels look cleaner especially after a few years.

Whatever you do, do not try to become known as the Discount Framer in your town. You cannot compete with the Big Boxes and you’ll drive yourself out of the market if you try.
 
We use paper mats only if a customer is really price shopping and doesn't care about conservation ( yes we explain it all to them..same as glazing options).
Our default mat is Crescent Select and Bainbridge ArtCare and this is mostly what we stock...we also have some suede and silks, etc that we stock...we use 99% conservation mats...use 40x60 paper mat as slip sheets on CMC.
 
When I started out I made the decision to use only acid-free and conservation-grade materials unless a customer specifically requested otherwise. As others have said, the price difference isn't all that great, and to me the cost savings would be far outweighed by the logistical headache of keeping track of two classes of inventory.

That said, we did have a little boo-boo the other day... I use the cheapest possible Bainbridge papermat for slipsheets on the CMC. Well wouldn't you know, a test mat cut from this stock somehow made it into our "precut-clearance-mat" bin and a customer absolutely fell in love with the color and wanted no other. My assistant was tearing her hair out trying to find the part number in the Peterboro and Crescent Rag Mat catalogues until the light dawned....
 
I would stock some of the most common colours. Whites and off whites, blacks and some of the trendy colours that are used in your shop/gallery.

I would rather spend the money towards buying a few boxes of moulding that I know would sell. Black moulding always sells.

Just my opinion.
 
I have not read the thread, so forgive me if I repeat. Although we sell half DIY, we rarely sell paper mat. We only carry white, cream, and black. We tried adding a few more paper mat colors last year, but they don't sell, even though they price out at about half the cost to the consumer. We have done such a good job of educating the customer over the last three decades that they don't want anything but acid free.

We also sell more CC (Conservation Clear) than regular glass. Partly for the same reason, and mostly from a clear understanding of the difference.

When you see prints in your own house framed before the common use of CC and acid free mats, you see yellowing bevels, faded mats, and more depressing, art or photos discolored and faded to almost nothing. You keep telling yourself that you'll find the negatives one day, but you never do. It's different now with digital photos, but again, the original file is not always avilable, and who wants to reprint and reframe something anyway? Do you really want to promote this quality of framing to your customers?

Finally, call Aaron Brothers. They ONLY use acid free mats (Artcare). You might think that the customer doesn't know the difference, but these days they often do.

If I had an "Outlet" store I would offer a full selection of both. But it would always be my obligation to show the customer the difference.
 
Kirstie said:
Finally, call Aaron Brothers. They ONLY use acid free mats (Artcare). You might think that the customer doesn't know the difference, but these days they often do.

If I had an "Outlet" store I would offer a full selection of both. But it would always be my obligation to show the customer the difference.
Click to expand...

Kirstie, I had a couple in today that are regulars and they pulled up in the Lexus (no auto loan on it) and they came in because they had picked up a couple of prints at the local art show. They went to the show not intending to buy anything because it was something free to do. They spotted the prints and they were matted and signed for $25 each. They told me that the only reason they bought them was the artist had a large sign saying all items were standard size to fit ready made frames. The pieces were 14x16. Even at my prices they went to Wally World and M's first for cheap RMs under $20. The size dosn't exist so they came to me.

I gave them my special at $44 each. They said "No we are going back to the show to get our money back because we were just trying to fill a spot on the wall". The framing was just frame, glass, backing and fit. They headed out the door and I called them back. They are regulars so I said I would do the job for $39 each if they went ahead with it now. I explained that doing 2 of the same item only takes a couple minutes longer than one and they are good customers so they said do it and I know it was out of guilt.

Now for some backgrond on this couple. They sold their home in Conneticut that they had been in for over 20 years and they bought the new home here for over $600k and paid cash. I have had extensive conversation with thes folks and know they are debt free. He has a good pension and it wasn't like it was going to put a dent in their savings but they said they are watching every penny even though they are financially sound. Their home is now worth less than 400k and they just want to be conservative in everything they do. They were going to return the art because they could not find $20 RMs. At $39 they only framed them out of guilt of coming in and wanting to walk over $48 difference between custom and plastic carp for the 2 combined.

I explain in depth the "Conservation aspect" to every customer and 90% of the time I get a response that "We only want to decorate an empty wall." I try to sell CC and they tell me that by the time the fading occurs they will be ready to change the wall decor anyway and will just be giving or throwing them away.

Read this article as it will be a real eye opener.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aQhOlWCOHawM&refer=us
 
Point well taken, Jeff, and an interesting article. That's why we carry framing materials in various price brackets. Maybe I'll take a look at some more of those paper mats as an option. I haven't seen an economy like this since we've been in business and all the old standby practices may have to change. We've made adjustments and will probably need to find ways to make more.
 
Choosing your market is a good idea. That's what Jeff does, and he does it well. No apologies required -- he serves a big part of his framing market.

I went the other direction, because that's where my business works best. I have never used un-buffered "standard" mats, and stopped stocking "acid free" mats a long time ago. Now I use only alphacellulose and all-cotton matboards. And for what it's worth, the default glazing in my POS program is Museum Glass.

On the other hand, I advertise a "plain & simple framing special" starting at $39.99. Whatever works, eh?
 
I only stock conservation matting. The price difference is well worth it when advantages are explained to the customer. I do have regular mat samples, but only use them when I have an extremely cost concerned client.
 
So I went away for the weekend and got on the grumble today not expecting many responses.. was i ever surprised! Thanks everyone, for the wealth of information and opinions!

I'll have to read the whole thread again to take it all in, but it seems like the majority of you seem to think that the price differential between the two types isnt enough to be concerned about and that the extra few dollars are worth it. works for me.

I think I'll invest in the crescent ragmat line then.

Thanks again everyone!

Bill- No worries, when I do start marketing to the public down the road, I dont plan on taking Dave Logans advice on value framing. It just seems like a bad idea to undercut everyone that much. I really think he is just trying to pump up his supply sales.
 
Paul123 said:
I think I'll invest in the crescent ragmat line then.

Thanks again everyone!

Bill- No worries, when I do start marketing to the public down the road, I dont plan on taking Dave Logans advice on value framing. It just seems like a bad idea to undercut everyone that much. I really think he is just trying to pump up his supply sales.
Click to expand...

Another less expensive acid-free line is Artique by Larson Juhl. Not cotton, not Artcare with Zeolites, but still acid-free.
 
And Artique has some really great faded colors that I can't find anywhere else. I use Crescent and Bainbridge as well, and they're great. But sometimes Artique mats are just the ticket for framing a piece that needs softer shades. I'm thinking here of pencil drawings and sepia photos or old black and whites.
 
And don't rule out alphacellulose mats from any of the major vendors. People can quibble endlessly here, but I doubt there's any functional difference between conservation-quality alphacellulose and cotton rag.
 
I actually prefer the way the alphacellulose mats cut to the cutting characteristics of the cotton rags, which are much softer, even notwithstanding the Crescent issues that have been much discussed here. (I haven't noticed as many problems lately, but that's possibly due to my substitution of the Crescent Select samples for the RagMat ones on my main sample rack.)
:cool: Rick
 
PaulSF said:
...I doubt there's any functional difference between conservation-quality alphacellulose and cotton rag.
Click to expand...

You're right, PaulSF.

When the paper-making is done, alphacellulose products are all lignin free, chemically stable, and equally suitable for preservation framing, regardless of the cellulose source.

The definition of alphacellulose is "purified pulp". The fibers may come from trees, cotton, or other plants. However, in our business the alphacellulose comes mostly from cotton, or trees after the lignins are extracted.

Extracting the lignins and other impurities from wood pulp requires a great deal of grinding, separating, chemical treatment, and cooking. All that processing makes short fibers, which compress into more-dense, stiffer, harder-core papers.

Cotton, on the other hand, starts as a fairly clean source of cellulose, and requires relatively little processing. The resulting long fibers compress into less-dense, more flexible papers with a softer core.
 
I try to only order "acid free" I have limited storage space and always cut down my leftovers into 8x10s and so on. I don't like having decorative mats floating around in the workshop getting mixed up.
 
You know "acid free" mats really are not free of acid, right?

That term may be among the most misleading in our industry. "Acid free" maboards are made of wood pulp still containing lignins, which are the main source of harmful acid. A buffer such as calcium carbonate is added during manufacture, in order to make the pH level something aboce 7, into the alkaline range.

Trouble is, as the "acid free" mat's paper deteriorates and the buffer is used up, the pH level of the board drops below 7 into the acid range, and it eventually discolors.

You can learn more if you search the Grumble archives for "acid free".
 
Acid Free as opposed to #### Paper Mat

Stay away from the Paper Mat - Paper mats are acidic on the surface papers and will leech over time. They will also burn and leave marks on the image. OEM primarily use Papermats, because they are cheaper and the life expectancy is short. Nor do they care!! Papermats should never be used in a decent frame shop or gallery!
 
I think my head is starting to spin with options haha!...Seriously, I appreciate all the advice, everyone. This issue has been on my mind for quite some time along with many others that I will bring up in future threads and its nice to hear all angles..

The alphacellulose type sounds rather pricey but worth looking into.

Jim, I thought ragmats were made of cotton. Do they still contain the wood pulp? My guess is that the colored face contains pulp, am I right?

I'll take framecrazy's advice and just by one line of conservation matboard because I also have limited storage space and sometimes I can be organizationally-challanged and fear I would mix them up.
 
"Extracting the lignins and other impurities from wood pulp requires a great deal of grinding, separating, chemical treatment, and cooking. All that processing makes short fibers, which compress into more-dense, stiffer, harder-core papers.

Cotton, on the other hand, starts as a fairly clean source of cellulose, and requires relatively little processing. The resulting long fibers compress into less-dense, more flexible papers with a softer core."

Actually, the wood pulp goes through a five step process where the cotton linter goes through a four step process. They both need to be cleaned and have impurities removed. Matboards are made with cotton linters, not pure white cotton and they come out brown after the initial cleaning. Bleach is required to make the pulp white. The length of the fibers is not important for matboard because it is four ply thick, but yes, the cotton board has a very different feel than the purified wood pulp. FACTS says that both cotton linter and purified wood pulp are suitable for preservation framing if both are made correctly.
 
Paul123 said:
Jim, I thought ragmats were made of cotton. Do they still contain the wood pulp? My guess is that the colored face contains pulp, am I right?
Click to expand...

Yes, Crescent RagMats are made of cotton linters, and other matboard makers also offer cotton boards.

The key for preservation framing is to use boards that are labeled "lignin free". Whether they are made from purified wood pulp or cotton linters, alphacellulose boards are equally suitable for preservation framing.

Alphacellulose boards (including cotton) are available with and without the alkaline buffer. Unbuffered boards are suitable for framing anything that may be alkaline sensitive, such as shells, skins, and other organic items.

Bainbridge also adds zeolite to their ArtCare boards, which serves as a passive trap for chemical contaminants within the closed up frame.
 
Thanks for clearing that up for me Jim.. I think Ive learned more about matboard in this thread than I have in the past year and a half.


How does one go about acquiring a large selection of corner samples? Do suppliers only supply them to businesses? Id like to get my hands on a decent selection of Bainbridge samples. Ive cut samples from boards that I ordered (whites, grays, and blacks) but thats all I have.
 
Paul123 said:
How does one go about acquiring a large selection of corner samples? Do suppliers only supply them to businesses? Id like to get my hands on a decent selection of Bainbridge samples. Ive cut samples from boards that I ordered (whites, grays, and blacks) but thats all I have.
Click to expand...

I was told by an executive of a major manufacturer that a full set costs them $150 to manufacture. I was also told that they were manufacturing a number of sets that equalled 2 sets per licensed framing businesses in the U.S. annually. This is why it has become difficult to get corner samples unless you are a storefront.

You can purchase sets from your supplier or possibly get a used set from a store that is closing or has closed.
 
So thats why my request for crescent samples went ignored last spring. Thanks for solving that mystery for me Jeff..

Okay maybe a small sample kit of popular colors? At this point, Id be happy with anything other than the typical blacks and whites I have.
 
Do you have the matboard specifiers. They are folded brochures with 1 inch square surface papers glued to them.

Paul if you send me a Private Message as a reminder I will check to see if I have a set of the straight designer sample chips. These are about 2 inches by 5 inches and I might just have them.
 
Paul123 said:
Hi everyone,

I am about to stock up on matboard. I've been buying regular crescent matboard because its cheaper and seemed like the smart move since I am just starting out.

Now friends and family are asking me to do some jobs for them and I guess I feel guilty that I am not using the higher quality materials. I am doing mainly peoples photographs and some want me to do photos, which they no longer have a negative for. Should I just go ahead and stock up on all acid free matboard or does it even make a difference if its cold mounted and non-conservative anyways?
Click to expand...

Crazy question...but...

Why stock up on matboard? Will you get a huge quantity discount? Do you know which colors your customers will want? Are you paying per delivery?

I know my suppliers will hate me for this but....Order as you go..decide by the order! Don't tie up your money in inventory!
 
janetj1968 said:
Crazy question...but...

Why stock up on matboard? Will you get a huge quantity discount? Do you know which colors your customers will want? Are you paying per delivery?

I know my suppliers will hate me for this but....Order as you go..decide by the order! Don't tie up your money in inventory!
Click to expand...

You go to a gas station and tank up all the way. Why? Why not put only ONE gallon of gas in your tank at a time? Suppose after a full tank up your vehicle just sits in your driveway unused for a whole week? Money tied up?

I keep i stock about 600 sheets of conservation matboards. It just feels so good to HAVE IN STOCK what customers want. "Once in a while" a couple of other shops about 20+ miles away call me and ask if i would have mat number blah blah blah. They are in a bind and need a sheet or two or three or four, etc. Sure, i sell it to them $20.00 per sheet... i do so to encourage them to stock up on matboards! Do they?... Nooooo..... they feel they are saving money by paying $20.00 per sheet! The same situation occurs with picture frame mouldings... they ask me if i would sell them a 10' stick for example. Sure.... price?... my "cost x 3". I purchase mouldings ONLY by the box and keep (at various times of the year) from 20,000 to 30,000 feet of mouldings in stock. Sure, the matboards and mouldings are just "sitting" there (until i use them) BUT, they ARE there when i need them, all i have to do is reach for them a few feet away. MY customers are glad to know i stock everything, but don't understand why some other shops are so expensive....
*
*
*
*
(If you make a mistake cutting out a matboard, it is because you only have ONE sheet to work with... lol)
 
janetj1968 said:
Crazy question...but...

Why stock up on matboard? Will you get a huge quantity discount? Do you know which colors your customers will want? Are you paying per delivery?

I know my suppliers will hate me for this but....Order as you go..decide by the order! Don't tie up your money in inventory!
Click to expand...

Many of us don't have the so called "FREE DELIVERY" that is offered by LJ. We just pay a lot less for everything that we buy. By using the "FREE DELIVERY" service the majority of framers are paying an extra buck or two per item. I will buy 50-100 sheets of board to fill in my stock on a weekly or every other week basis so that so called "FREE DELIVERY" would actually cost me an extra $100-$200 dollars for the free service.

Many of the independant distributors have actual free delivery and when that is the case buying as needed makes sense. I use too much mat board to not have it on hand. Waiting on delivery would extend my turnaround time by as much as a week. I try to have everything framed and back out the door in 1-3 days.
 
janetj1968 said:
Crazy question...but...

Why stock up on matboard? Will you get a huge quantity discount? Do you know which colors your customers will want? Are you paying per delivery?

I know my suppliers will hate me for this but....Order as you go..decide by the order! Don't tie up your money in inventory!
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I probably have 20 - 30 mat numbers that I carry in inventory; these cover most of my needs.

For the others, I'm lucky to have two distributors that I can call and get next day delivery. For one of these distributors, I can call and go and pick up within 30 minutes if it is a real emergency; they also give me my quantity discount price even if I only pick up one.

I can't afford to have a lot of dollars tied up in inventory. You have to pay for it when you buy it, but you can't write it off as an expense til you use it.
 
Janet, its not like I am buying TONS of matboard. Right now I have next to nothing in the matboard department. Just a few sheets of crescent paperboard. Keep in mind I am just a hobbyist with future aspirations. But the company I order from gives shipping discounts if bought in bulk and there is a mininum of how many sheets I can buy. I dont have the connections yet or know a good distributor in the northeast. Maybe someone can suggest one for me?
 
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