A Question for all of you Wedding Photographers

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Baer Charlton

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
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So.... there was this wedding... obviously.

Now, I've shot a few... but not as a paid pro. A good one (team) can
really be worth more than their salt.... and pepper with the salsa thrown
in... I have framed some photos of friends who (and this was before Photoshop)
looked about ..... hmmmmm "considerably" lighter then I remember them
at the wedding......
or that just enough soft focus on the bride's mom.... that she's looking really smokin'....

So, THIS mother of the bride is SMOKING.... well, more like the steam is out her
ears.. but the fire is in her eyes and after reading the emails..... I don't want my
delicate ears in the same neighborhood with her mouth....

These are only a couple of some of the shots that they paid for....
and just so you know.... the charge to shot the 3 hour wedding reception was $1,500
with an hour before to do the formal shots.... 8x10 prints are $45 each.. and now she's
asking my opinion.....

So, exhibit #1..... I think you all can figure out who the person in the focal point is...
The black formal dress to the shooter's right is the MOB...... the basketball star she's
talking to is her little boy.
PhotoginPhoto.jpg

No... we can't find the picture she was taking of daddy giving her away......


OK, next.... and we all know how "Artistic" that late afternoon light as a back-light is......

BackLite.jpg


Two photos later... the back light is just right so you can see the guy on the back of the
fifth boat..... taking a wiz....
(I didn't want to get banned... )

So.... do these look like photos shot by someone with their first gig? Or is this what passes
for "Professional shooting" these days?

Honestly..... after going through 800+ photos.... and finding less than 3 that I would bother
printing.....
I'm at a loss here.

As a side note, I've known this little bride since she was a midget in diapers.... so I promised
I'd frame "The" picture for them.... There is one... that with a few nights of CS5.... might,
be a decent 16x20..... MIGHT.....
So am I a sleaze if I Photoshop it to print a decent picture that they can hang in their livingroom?
 
I guess the gig as a home based framer didn't work out so photographer was the second choice of professions. :vomit:
 
I would do the photo shop work... Did anyone look at this photographers portfolio before contracting with them. From what I understand, the going rate for a wedding photographer in our neck of the woods starts at $4000 +...
 
Bear, in all honesty these pictures are better than the ones my photographer took... good thing my sister-in-law was taking pictures also. Her photos are the only ones I have now. My photographer "forgot" to show up to rehersal, and almost missed the wedding, because she couldn't find it. And yes... she had been a "Professional" wedding photographer for over ten years before my wedding. Some days I think they just don't want to see another girl in a wedding dress.

As for the pictures, do what you need to do to make the bride and her mother happy. The photographer messed up, and if you can make it better, do so. You could also suggest that now that the wedding is over, they might think about going to a studio and getting a studio shot done. There will be none of the stress in their faces, and perhaps they can relax and enjoy getting the picture they REALLY wanted.
 
You need to PS the H*** out of it if need be!! I would crop them out of a shot and put them into a better background...maybe one of a guy stuffing turkeys into a machine... you know the one:thumbsup:.

How about posting one of the "Good" ones so we can offer better suggestions.
 
Well...if that is what a professional photographer does...I guess I'm in the wrong profession (joking here!!!!!)

These photos are terrible!!!!!!

When we married, we couldn't afford a professional photographer, so my SIL and my brother both took many photos and we are still very very happy with those.

We were at a wedding last year, saw the professional photos taken there, and prefer the ones that our daughter (then 14) took of the couple....

So photoshop it is!
 
I just took pictures at my cousins wedding reception. I didn't asked to get paid...... nor did I promise anything super wonderous.
they were married previously in Flordia and this was the party here at home.

I have to say tho........ I'm super picky and not a small girl at all........ I don't care if you have to stand in front of every single guest there to get the picture of them cutting the cake or walking in or the toast........ but SHEEEEEESH these pictures SUCK!

Are you sure it was a professional job?
 
I'm a bit confused. At first, I thought you had taken them yourself. Then I thought
someone else took them and the family has brought them to you for fixing. Is the
latter the case? I'm thinking so.

They definitely don't look like professional wedding shots, and one can tell the
difference by going to the sites of a few wedding photographers. Almost all of
which would surely tell you that Photoshop is their friend. The question your post
raises, however is, if these are someone else's photos, do you have the latitude
of tinkering around with them for the sake of improvement. Do I read that
correctly?

This brings to mind my mom's wedding. My friend is a landscape photographer
and past president of our local photography club. He kindly offered to take the
pics at her wedding for just the price of the film. Trouble was, he took all the
group pics in front of our church's beautiful stained glass window, without
thinking of how the camera would compensate for the light imbalance. The
result was that the window glows beautifully, and all the people are very dark,
as if in shadows. Thank goodness for the ubiquity of the camera, because my
brother-in-law was also wandering around with his own, snapping candid shots
here and there, and these are what we've treasured.
 
In the photolab we deal with problems like this everyday.

A couple of thoughts.

Here's a limited defense of photographer.

Lots of weddings couples insist on receiving every single photo taken, unedited. That's a bit like delivering all the garbage left over from a framing project and having it scrutinized.

Lots of wedding couples desire the magazine style format of photography. That means lots of clicks hoping to capture the right moment. National Geographic rejects 20,000 images for every one the publish.

Typically neither the bride nor the photographer is looking for a legacy image. They want photobooks that will tell a story with a collage of images. Forget the misty bride looking soulfully out the stain-glass window...... so old fashion.

We always get an earful from the unhappy parent, the happy couple is usually fine with photography.

In defense of MOM.

The first photo a nothing but a bad snapshot, grandma and a single use camera could do as well.

The back-lit photo could be great with fill flash. Unlikely that Digital Debbie has a clue about how to use fill flash.

Like bad framers, bad photographers are prevalent. Without any understanding of the craft, they call themselves professional.

Doug
 
So.... do these look like photos shot by someone with their first gig? Or is this what passes
for "Professional shooting" these days?
Click to expand...

Both. Unfortunately there are way too many people who buy a digital camera these days and think it automatically makes them a professional photographer. There has been a big backlash among them against "traditional" photography and having to learn things like lighting, exposure, posing, etc. Having actual training in photography is viewed as "elitist" and they go around bragging about how they are "self taught".

This is what is becoming the new norm and studios like ours with a photographer who actually learned the craft of the profession are becoming fewer and fewer. Consumers are hiring photographers not based on skill or quality of work but based on cost and relationship. Everyone seems to have a relative or a friend who is now a "professional photographer".
 
OK, I now have the whole story.....

Pro... in business for 6 years.
Friend of one of the mothers..... (guess which)
They get all of the photos burned to a disk,
and 40 of their favorites in a printed
(read in here My Publisher or such) and the
photog walks away from all copyrights.

So once they have the hi res disk, and the bride
and groom figure out which shot they like....
I will PS and print... and frame.

Man I'm glad we don't go through this stuff with our
cats and dogs...... yesh....

Thanks everyone, I was afraid I was just being a crotchety
old man......
shush Mar.... and Mark, don't EVEN go there.....
 
Just went to a wedding last Saturday. One of my best friends daughter getting hitched.
Over 100 people, very high end in Scottsdale at the Scottsdale Convention Center.
I will be framing some of the photos from the photographer so I'll see what I get and report.
Danced with a 25 year old blond girl with a band aid for a dress, but that's a whole other story. :icon11:
 
neilframer said:
Danced with a 25 year old blond girl with a band aid for a dress, but that's a whole other story. :icon11:
Click to expand...
Now I have to clean coffee off my screen! ROTFLMAO!

It's probably a much more interesting story!
 
Like Doug, this is a problem we see on regular basis through our lab. Without being able to see the best of the images it is tricky, as if all clicks were saved sans culling then it's very tricky to know what was achieved, do you have an example of the best photo or two as well?

If it's really fish then I'd be happy to donate some PS time to help them out. FWIW - go CS6 Cloud, get the lot.
 
Ok, here are the "good ones" .... and the problems I personally have...

Let me start with saying.... in this whole afternoon shoot, I see zero
evidence of use of a polarizing lens... which would have controlled
so much of the harsh light......

So... here comes the bride.... but not the dress.... When mom lays
out $2k for a dress.... she wants to see the whole thing! You can
always crop.. but go back and add?.... As a framer, I have lived and
breathed by the #1 rule with framing a wedding picture and using any
tone of white for a mat... "NEVER compete with the bride's dress - -
you will ALWAYS lose." Rule #2 Go back and read #1 and reread it
until you understand the meaning of life.

Capture1.jpg


Next the "give away hug"..... it's bad enough the guy is bald - - not controlling the light
with a lens is bad enough, but a half step to the photogs left would have changed the
light.... sooooo much.
Capture2.jpg


This is the only one of two shots taken that is in "focus"...... amazing how looking into
the sun can destroy the auto focus.... remember.... only TWO (2) shots....
Capture3.jpg


But they shot off three of the kiss..... and this was the best....
Capture5.jpg


and the happy lens flare blotched happy couple.....
Capture6.jpg


But lets be fair here...... lets get a kiss in controlled light, and controlled background....

But bytes and bits are expensive... so lets take only one shot.... of the 42-second kiss.....
Capture4.jpg


but lets make sure there is a door that isn't straight, and moulding on the wall....
and while we're at it.... lets wash it out until her head half disappears along with that
girlly frau frau rag on her head.

OK, I'm wound up now..... I need to go chop up some wood.....
 
Oh, and here is the one I want to fix.... and frame.

There needs to be more sparklers behind them to help
mitigate the building.... I'd also like to close the gap a bunch
so the fireman's arch is a little more intimate.

I want to also bring them out a bit better . . . and I don't think
she'd kill me for a little bit of puppet warp..... on that beautiful dress....

ShawnnaDan.jpg
 
Baer Charlton said:
OK, I now have the whole story.....

Pro... in business for 6 years.
Friend of one of the mothers..... (guess which)
They get all of the photos burned to a disk,
and 40 of their favorites in a printed
(read in here My Publisher or such) and the
photog walks away from all copyrights.

So once they have the hi res disk, and the bride
and groom figure out which shot they like....
I will PS and print... and frame.
Click to expand...

That's referred to as "Turning and Burning". Very little work done on the photographer's part post production where as we put in probably three times as much work post production as during the whole wedding day.

Six years doesn't mean she's actually learned anything during that time to improve her
photography. Just that she has found enough people to convince to hire her to keep it going. Either that, or she doesn't really need the money and the business is a tax write off for her husband and her. I know a number of studios like that where there is a spouse with a high income bankrolling them.

but lets make sure there is a door that isn't straight, and moulding on the wall....
Click to expand...

Bugs us as framers but it's considered "artsy" to photograph on a tilt. I've seen whole weddings done that way and it makes me twitch.
 
AnneL said:
Bugs us as framers but it's considered "artsy" to photograph on a tilt. I've seen whole weddings done that way and it makes me twitch.
Click to expand...

I just did a whole bunch like that for the reception they asked me to photograph.... I figured..... I'm an artist.....
So....... this is whatcha get......... they turned out pretty great even better..... they loved them...
NOW FRAMING those.......... is another story.... :D
 
Do these files have their exif data? I've very curious about what camera and setting were used on the 1st photo you posted... A photographers job is to weed out the stinkers... that is unless all the shots are stinkers :(
 
I am a photographer that does framing. I've photographed over 1,500 weddings in my 39 years in business. I see this #### all the time. The problem with the images you have is exposure and color balance. It is the same as framing, you get what you pay for. I'm new to the full frame shop business and turn away things that I know at this time is beyond what I can do. The difference in framing and photography is not everyone can buy a CMC and the other things needed but everyone one can buy a camera. When the prices came down and they put the screen on the back of the camera it was over for the photography business as we once knew.
 
She's going to burn me a copy of the DVD when she gets it.. then I should know.

I seem to remember they where shooting with Canon 5Ds I remember asking what
lens they liked and she had to look at it.... it was like a Standard 75-200.... or something
 
Good grief - if Kim had not been cremated she would surely be spinning right now. We have seen some awful wedding photography - but these take the cake!

At least she would be happy she did not have to deal with the aftermath. Photoshop or no photoshop - that is still one heck of a job you are taking on, dearest Baer.
 
I don't claim to be a photographer (other than on a hobbyist basis), but I have framed enough wedding photos over the years to be able to observe a range of possibilities from wannabe work to truly artistic accomplishment. While the lighting scenario for the ceremony shown here might present a challenge to anyone, I have to say these are some of the most amateurish photos I've seen from a "professional".
:kaffeetrinker_2: Rick
 
Baer Charlton said:
I seem to remember they where shooting with Canon 5Ds I remember asking what lens they liked and she had to look at it.... it was like a Standard 75-200.... or something
Click to expand...

She likes the lens someone told her she should get and that didn't cost her a lot. Or maybe it came with the camera in a package deal.

What many of the newer photographers don't understand is how important it is to get the best lenses possible even with digital cameras. It's especially true if your equipment is subject to a lot of wear and tear, which it is when you are photographing a wedding. You don't need a cheap lenses breaking during the ceremony, especially if you don't have a back up.

Many of the professionals we know are going back to using fixed focal length lenses. Fewer moving parts to break and better optics. If they need to switch back and forth frequently, they do what the old press photographers did and have multiple bodies with different lenses on each.

Rick, unfortunately, I've seen worse! :faintthud:
 
Baer Charlton said:
OK, I now have the whole story.....

Pro... in business for 6 years.
.
Click to expand...


I think it is not 6 years experience, it is 1 year experience, six times, or 6 months experience 12 times.

Our son Christopher got married earlier this year in Homer Alaska. The photographer charged $750.00 and Christopher and Jessie got the disk.

Jessie has screened them down to about 100 that she has put in drop box. Some are pretty good, but it was an outdoor wedding (about 45 degrees f) and it was raining (London rain with intermittent sun), so the contrast is not always great. But overall, good considering.

I'm glad that Janet and I also brought our camera.
 
Here is the new paradigm for wedding memories.

Hopefully there will be something to print and frame.
 

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Dang. We would have photographed a wedding in Homer for the cost of the airfare there. Actually, we did do that a couple years ago for my cousin's daughter. We could have stayed at my cousin's place.

I was going to mention iPhonography. It's the new trend in senior portraits too.
 
AnneL said:
Dang. We would have photographed a wedding in Homer for the cost of the airfare there. Actually, we did do that a couple years ago for my cousin's daughter. We could have stayed at my cousin's place.

I was going to mention iPhonography. It's the new trend in senior portraits too.
Click to expand...


I once photographed a wedding for a fifth of Tequila reserved for me at the reception. The reception photos were the BEST!!! Even the shot with the worm was good!:vomit:
 
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