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A question about spacers

Vermont Hardwoods solid wood picture frame molding

Framar

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Took in one of those absurd jobs which consists of a ~40x60 linen canvas with acrylic paint that needs stretching, and put into a 1 1/2 inch deep frame with regular plexiglas because she wants to hang it in her really large "well-ventilated" bathroom and the plexi is to protect it from her kids. I am planning on coroplast for the backing and taped edges all around to keep down the moisture content.

But I am thinking about Econospace or Framespace, but I don't think I have ever used either of them on something this big - and especially with a stretched canvas.

Thoughts? (Prayers?)
 

wpfay

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Dear Lord...

If you can stuff all that into a 1.5" deep frame. you have my admiration. A stretched canvas of that size should be on a minimum of a 1.5" stretcher.
 

Shayla

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You might try a wider than usual frame rabbet. Between the rounding of the stretcher at the top edge and the need for extra room to clear the fabric folds on the outside, the usual 1/4" width could be a challenge.
 

Framar

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Wally, I am going with a wider rather than deeper strainer, also well-braced. Canvas is linen but of a thinner varitey - quite pliable.

Ylva, stacked is a good approach!

Back to the drawing board.
 
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Framar

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The frame chosen is real plain - Larson Maple and Walnut white washed 71-036M. Maple & Walnut White Wash Maple 3/4 inches | Larson-Juhl https://www.larsonjuhl.com/en-US/maple-&-walnut-white-wash-maple-3-4-71-036m.html

So, in keeping with the squareness and plainness, I am thinking a 1/4" strip of maple (or poplar) also washed down with white and ripped lengthwise to make either a sort of sturdy fillet or a sturdy wall to keep the canvas and the plexiglas separated. leaning towards the fillet approach - would show about 1/4" but it would be covering 1/2" of the plexi.

Hmmmmmm . . .

Might actually work!

:thumbsup:
 

neilframer

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Stretched a canvas that was 72" x 144" last week going to North Carolina for a new restaurant.:shutup:
A gallery wrap with the sides painted, no frame.

Just worked on a 44" x 69" canvas in a floater today. (not going into a bathroom..:thumbsup:)
I stretched it on a 1" tall by 2" wide strainer that I cut and joined and it is very strong.
I added one center bar on the 69" side but it almost didn't even need it.
I could put my full weight on the center of the long sides and it would barely move. (I'm pretty skinny so maybe that's not a good test...:rolleyes:)

Since you are using plexiglass and not glass, condensation is not that much of an issue.
Plexi doesn't react to temperature changes as glass does so very little if any condensation.
The plexi touching the canvas is not really much of an issue but the idea of a stack or wood spacer is a good one.
Framespace or Arlo spacers can be used, we use all of them.
Some are peel and stick, some clip on the edge of the plexi or glass.


Also, Larson has small linen liners that might be used as a spacer.
3/4" wide by 5/8" tall available in white and off white.
Here's one..
Screen Shot 2020-10-28 at 8.08.01 PM.png
"the plexi is to protect it from her kids"
Maybe she should put the plexi around the kids and not the canvas....
excited season 9 GIF
 
Last edited:

Pat Murphey

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I would leave the canvas open on the back. Sealing it up, especially with coroplast might encourage condensation. This is one case why the canvas "breathing" might be important. 😁

IMHO, comments?

I've had a normally framed print (paper backing) hanging next to my shower for 24 years with no consequence.

Edit: I have no idea about how to deal with an outside bathroom wall that isn't super insulated.
 
Last edited:

Framar

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Hmmm.

I have had a lot of stuff hanging in my bathroom over the years, some of it antique Maxfield Parrish prints from 1908 - gotten a lot of blossoms of mildew and foxing. But my whole house has always been damp and only recently I have been able to keep the humidity down to under 50%.

I dunno.

Keep up the discussion - I have no deadline on this canvas except Thanksgiving. So this gives me time to think.
 

Rick Hennen

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If you are thinking about a linen wrapped spacer and need a custom shape, give us a call. Over the years we have created spacers in all types of shapes and sizes. Rian Fabrication Services
 
Vermont Hardwoods solid wood picture frame molding

Jim Miller

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Even in the best of circumstances, artwork in a typical bathroom is problematic, and a big canvas is probably worse than usual.

Mar, "dew point" is a topic to know about, because it explains how condensation happens. Essentially, if you subject any object to a rapid, radical increase in both temperature and humidity, condensation is quite likely. And following that, mildew, mold, and perhaps other moisture-related nasties.

If you contain the canvas in the closed environment of a tightly-fitted frame with glazing and an insulated, sealed backing, the changes of temperature and humidity would be slowed. And since those changes occur quickly and then dissipate almost as quickly in a bathroom, maybe you could negate their effects on the inside of the frame. Slowing the rate of environmental change is the key.

Also, more free air space inside the closed frame would help, too, since that would add to cubic inches of area and further slow the rate of change in there. Deep spacers recommended. Could you add a back-box to the frame?
 

Matthew Hale

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I'm picturing my bathroom and thinking "Who the h@ll has a bathroom big enough to hang 40x60 artwork in...?"

also - good luck with your project. I try to avoid spacers on large pieces of acrylic because IT'S A PAIN IN THE ... but sometimes you just gotta.
 

Framar

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The lady said it was a "very large bathroom with two ventilator fans." I am picturing something like out of one of those magazines, ya know?
 

Framar

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Well, right after I described this project to all y'all, I threw out my leg muscles and have been walking with two canes and keeping the shop open only 3-4 hours a day (the length of time I can stand on my pins).

And I had promised the piece for Thanksgiving. So I subcontracted it out to my local supplier because there was no way on earth I could wrestle a job that size what with not being able to stand up without a cane.

They did a superb job, used 1/4" white econospace with the regular acrylic; the canvas stretched up beautifully (it was actually real linen!) and it was finished off with coroplast on the back.

Customer said it is only going to be in the bathroom for a brief time because as soon as her rugrats are better trained (she did not call them rugrats) it will be moved into a more prominent location like the living or dining room. I managed to convince her that is was HUGE so she borrowed her boyfriend's pickup with a cap on the bed, and wrapped it in a sleeping bag. She was totally thrilled with how it turned out. And all of us got to make a few bucks (me without hardly lifting a finger).
 
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Framar

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I got the idea to "hire" them to help me when I came back in September and had them do a huge heavy mat replacement job on a really fragile, thin, old, silkscreen that a VERY good customer (I have known him since the seventies) had brought to me in January of 2018, just as my hip was going really bad. So I was hoping to regain my strength enough to work on it once I had the new hip. Got my strength back - and - BAM! Covid strikes.

Customer was extraordinarily understanding - and I also gave him a present to ease my guilty mind - and they did a better job than I thought was possible. He was thrilled with the job they did and I did admit to both of these customers that "another framer had assisted me with these huge frames".

I have an idea I will be doing this more frequently - either that or stop taking in anything larger than 30 x 40. LOL
 

David Hewitt

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FWIW, Talking of sealing and spacing, when I did the canvas requirement for the MCPF exam. The spacing was done with angle aluminum completely surrounding the canvas, cut to the depth that was needed for spacing, then the canvas and aluminum was sandwiched between Acrylic, the seams and Acrylic were then sealed with Aluminum frame sealing tape. The package was well received.
 

Nikodeumus

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Customer was extraordinarily understanding - and I also gave him a present to ease my guilty mind - and they did a better job than I thought was possible. He was thrilled with the job they did and I did admit to both of these customers that "another framer had assisted me with these huge frames".
There's nothing wrong with asking for help when you need it.
 

Framar

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This is the present I gave this guy. It was a piece of foam board that I had been using as a horizontal surface for the last 20 years or so whenever I had to paint a frame or anything. Over the years a lot of folks had seen it and exclaimed over it, telling me I ought to frame it, but this guy when particularly bananas over it so I trimmed it down a bit, named it "2020" and signed my name to it and framed it in his long-time frame of choice - Nielsen #11 silver.

He LOVED it!

2020 painting for Schlegel.jpg
 
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Nikodeumus

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This is the present I gave this guy. It was a piece of foam board that I had been using as a horizontal surface for the last 20 years or so whenever I had to paint a frame or anything. Over the years a lot of folks had seen it and exclaimed over it, telling me I ought to frame it, but this guy when particularly bananas over it so I trimmed it down a bit, named it "2020" and signed my name to it and framed it in his long-time frame of choice - Nielsen #11 silver.

He LOVED it!

View attachment 36397
You've found a new career Framar!
It really does look like a piece of modern abstract art.
I like it too.

This speaks to the subjectivity of abstract art.
To you, it was just a messy scrap.
To others, it evokes an emotional response.
How it was created (unintentionally) is really irrelevant at the point that someone says "Hey, I like that".
BAM! Now it is art.

Very nice of you to gift it to your client.

I have a few items I have "created' this way.
I call them my "Accidental Art".
In my mind, one day I will open a gallery with all this Accidental Art and call it "Oops, I Arted!"
You could be a featured artist in my pretend gallery if you like. :p
 

Framar

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Some day I will take a photo of the "Jackson Pollack" I painted when I was in college in 1964 or 65. It has been sitting in my garage (no heat and up to 9" of water on the floor depending on the season) for decades now and it is one of the least warped canvas stretchers I have ever seen. Go figure.
 
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Peter Odems

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I see no paintings. See more like splashing......... We had a painter who did that too: Jan de Bonth. He was a victim of a car-bomb incident and last his legs with that.
 

Peter Odems

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But in Europe you can forget all that black in the frame. We more like jolly colours.
 

Framar

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This is nowhere as cool as the Ghost Shark, but here is my very own Pollack. You see, when I got to Art School in 1964, Buffalo's Albright-Knox Art Gallery hadhosted a MAJOR exhibition of pop art (eventually featured in a cover story in LIFE magazine) and the Buffalo Philharmonic Orchestra began performing John Cage and other far out composers.

The very first class of Art 101 was the showing of a short black and white film which featured Jackson Pollack, out on a barge in a harbor somewhere making these huge paintings of his on sheets of plywood. It showed al the opened cans of paint, and Pollack walking around the perimeters of the plywood,and flinging paint in all directions. Then, after the paint had dried, he took a circular saw to the boards, cutting then into random shapes and sizes. Then he weeded out the good from the bad (in his mind) and he tossed the ones he did not like into the water (filmmaker showed them floating away) and next the art dealer came by in a little boat and picked up all of the Pollack-approved pieces.

Professor then asked, "Is this art?" The auditorium went wild. And we students argued about this for months. I came down on the side that "YES, this is art!" but a lot of kids were totally insulted by that concept.

In the meantime, however, we got many tours of the galler's amazing show with the Warhol, Rauschenberg, Vasarely, Marisol, Tinguely, Indiana, and of course Pollack. And the gallery ended up with many of the pieces. Marisol just bequested all of her works.

1965 Mar Pollack.jpg
 
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Nikodeumus

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Framar your post about Pollock's method of creating (and many other methods of abstract creations) sparked a memory of a conversation I had many many years ago with a friend.
Neither of us has had any kind of training or experience in "art", these were just our musings as a couple of uninformed viewers, looking a great big chunk of random splotches and colours and discussing; "What is it? What's it supposed to be? Does it need to be ANYTHING?!? Why do I like it and the next person doesn't?", all the usual observations regarding an art style that is kind of hard to define.

After some years of observing this type of art, and pondering these questions, (repeating again: I have absolutely NO training/education in art theory or anything) I came to realize something.

In regard to abstract art in particular...
To me, the physical piece itself isn't always necessarily the "art".
Rather it's the interpretation of the piece that is where the artistry comes from.

What I mean is this...
Often times you will watch a show or read an article about a particular artist standing beside their "random bits of colours and shapes" artpiece, they will go on for some time explaining what the piece "means" or "represents" to them, their influences or inspirations etc.
Sometimes the actual configuration of that one particular object isn't the "art", it's the words and language the artist uses to convey their intent of what the piece represents that has more impact on the observer, than the actual item itself..
Only after understanding the artists intent does the "real" understanding of the abstract form make "sense".

How many times have you looked at an abstract art piece for a while, gauged in your own mind whether you liked it, or guessed what was supposed to be represented, then afterwards read the artists interpretation and thought "Huh, I would never have thought that is what this art was supposed to represent".

I am convinced that if one were to make a study by presenting a series very different pieces of abstract art, and present a series very different written or oral essays describing possible "meanings or interpretations", you would find that a random sampling of observers wouldn't reliably assign the same art piece with matching descriptions, IF they were not given any context by the artists own description ahead of time.

I'm not saying that abstract art is in any way lessened without knowledge of the artists intent. Far from it.
It just seems to me that this demonstrates the truth of the old adage "Art/beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

I'm sure I could be totally off base, I'm just an un-edumacated small-town rube. I ain't Artsy-Schmartsy. What do I know? 🤓
 
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