A Poll question of my own

Create a Post
G

GhostFramer

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Posts
697
Loc
Arizona
I know many ladies wont like the question, but I am curious about the average age of a picture framing shop owner. I have a hunch and am curious if I am correct.
Since I am asking: My age is 30
 
Do you want only shop owners to answer, or can anyone?
 
And the purpose might be? Please more details........
And yes I think that it was clearly stated shop owners not sure what this is leading too?
Could be interesting
 
Doesnt have to be only owners. I suppose the person who is selecting and ordering inventory and merchandise would more accuratley fit my question.\

The basis for my question comes from my experience at the store I have taken over. The previous owner was older and seemed to be stuck in the good old days when his business was booming. The type of art and products he continued to use was hurting the store sales. After looking at a few other operations I saw a similar pattern. Just curious how many younger people are in the business?
 
I would put the average age in the 40s, but the mean in the upper 50s.

Is the general framing a little stale? Is that the point of your question? The answer is yes. And a very respected voice in this community put it a lot better and more sensitive about a year ago. I just can't seem to find William Parkers wonderful bullseye article on "greying in place".
 
Sorry if that came across as insensitive. No offense was meant. It was just an observation I made and I am wondering if a new perspective can have an impact on the market place.
 
I'm 57 but I'm cool and I'm hip.

In spite of what my wife says!
In spite of what my son says!
In spite of what my employees think!
In spite of the way I dress!
In spite of my hair line!
In spite of my waist line!
In spite of what I drive!

Doug
 
I'm 54 and started in the business 48 years ago sweeping my grandfather's shop and running errands for my grandmother.

I do believe many might see me somewhat in an arrested development in what I like in art and in framing and consider myself very much a traditionalist in these areas.

I compare the advent of the CMC and often it's overuse of capabilities to the onset of the Macintosh computer on the design world. Just because a capability exists does not mean it should be used extensively. The gawdfull designs by amateur commercial artists that resulted from the thousands of fonts made available by the computer might be compared to how some use the CMC in their framing designs today. It isn't about the intricacy of the matting but about how the mat accentuates the art...

If you notice the framing first then I believe a framer has failed in their mission. Good framing stands the test of time.

:soapbox: Hey, I've earned the right to rant...



:D
 
Thanks for the clarification, Ghost. I'm almost 43.
Don't own the frame shop I work at, but I do probably
ninety percent of the designing and place all the orders,
among other things. From what you wrote, I'm wondering
if perhaps your curiosity might be more related to the
buying of other items for sale in galleries and shops, as well
as what kind of art a gallery chooses to sell.

It's definitely important to know what your strengths are
as a business and then go with those. At our shop, our main
focus is framing. We're in a fairly conservative town as far
as artistic tastes, so in our very smalll gallery space, we carry
mostly landscapes, local photography, pottery, art glass
and some jewelry. Things like abstract art or hip, pop culture
references just don't interest our customers that much, and
so it's okay that we don't focus on them. But you're very wise
to point out that people shouldn't get stuck in their ways for
no good reason.

It's always good to take a look at why we do what we do,
and to see if maybe there's a way it can be done even more
effectively. One thing I would add is that if someone's new to
a business, it's sometimes easy to throw the baby out with
the boring old bathwater. It's tempting to look at the ways in
which something has stagnated and assume that the whole
business model was bad. But it can be a mixed bag, and learning
to understand what did succeed with that business in that market
can be very valuable. There might have been things that that owner
did very well, and that will still work best in that market, but with
some timely changes to other aspects of it. It's very important
to make changes that the market will bear. It's possible to be behind
the times, as you well know. But it's also possible to be ahead of the
times, or to express a personally satisfying aesthetic that the people
in your area won't relate to. All good things to think about.

I'm curious about how you have dealt these issues at
the place where you are now.
 
I'm 47, started framing at 17 and opened my first store at 25.

Now what I have witnessed as each new set of young minds goes to reinvent the industry is that the frame is always considered disposable. First the metal frames became prolific and in a million finishes. Swiss Clips and Uni Frames made the frame non existant. Foam Core made it so the art could be mounted and forget the frame and glass. Gallery wrap was a very expensive way to do with out a frame. The digital frame was a way to cut the framer out all together but you had to move it from room to room to be cost effective. You also needed some of those reading glasses to see the art.

Maybe next we can just hand them a bag of air and tell them that there is a framed piece of art in there but is is made of the newest technology in lightweight, invisible, very rare elements. All of that for the price of a good old piece of hand oiled, custom milled, exotic hardwood moulding that will last hundreds of years if treated properly.:shrug:
 
Hey Dave I love you!!! Great comment about just because we have can should we? I am SO OVER Photoshop and CMC designs - either they should be freestanding artwork, like Brian's and Jarrod's designs or they should just shut up and sit down. Do not outshine the artwork.

I am 63, framing for 40 years and proud of every gray hair.
 
I dont know if age has sooo much to do with with having stale designs or inventory in every case...........:shrug:
But I do think you have to diversify......offer different things.....options...that sort of thing...Otherwise its gets SUPER BORING!

I think someones personality has a lot to do with how they design, and what kind of inventory they sell......just my 2 cents...:D
 
Thank you everyone for the comments and the advice. I appreciate all your input. I'm not new to the industry, however my situation has recently changed. I am glad you all are willing to bounce around different thoughts and ideas. I find all of your information very interesting and helpful.
 
we are co-owners..wife is 67 and I'm 66, both of which are young for Florida. The average age in our county is 63 and we have the oldest ( over 80 yrs) per capita for all counties on the country.
 
hey Dick!
no wonder you're not busy :sleep:-----your "clients" cant make it TO the door!!!!!!!!
 
GhostFramer said:
...The previous owner was older and seemed to be stuck in the good old days when his business was booming. The type of art and products he continued to use was hurting the store sales. After looking at a few other operations I saw a similar pattern...
Click to expand...

Generally, I believe that's a good observation.

The Golden Age of custom framing was in the 1980s and 1990s, when almost anyone could unlock the door on a storefront and make a living as a framer. Small independent frame shops dominated what was a fast-growing framing industry at the time.

Professional training and education became available to all framers in the late 80s, but before that, most framers learned from an experienced framer/mentor. There were lot of 30-year framers who had one year of experience 30 times over, because they stopped improving and thought they knew all they needed to know. They are mostly gone now, but a few remain.

The market has evolved greatly in the past decade. Today, some of the old-school framers are still holding on, but the newcomers to framing are much better oriented to success in the 'new market' of custom framing.

Older framers still dominate the industry, but that will change over time, as the new generation of framers takes over. Admittedly, the age transition has slowed down, as the small-independent segment of the industry continues to shrink. Just the same, today's 30-year-olds will eventually become the elders of the industry.

I opened my frame shop in 1988 at the age of 40, after a moderately successful career in boring industrial stuff. I try to keep up. My shop's profit is still growing and I have no plans to leave the industry. However, I would like to learn more, teach more, consult more, finish the three framing books in process and maybe write a few more. I hope to continue embracing new framing techniques, too.

Regardless of age, continuing to learn and progress is essential to survive, and enthusiasm is essential to thrive.
 
Interesting that you can look at a frame and pretty much tell when it was made. Every time period has its corresponing "look". The trick for us oldsters is to either think like the melinials or hire one to lead us to what they want. We are still using the same basic language, so what are the icons, motifs, symbols and designs that attract the yonger generations? Or is it as I suspect, that the constant streaming of imagery, music, sounds, media hype, marketing, etc... totally ruined the place in their world for a static image?
What I've seen of the mainstream designers working for name brand manufacturers consistantly misses the target.
 
wpfay said:
Or is it as I suspect, that the constant streaming of imagery, music, sounds, media hype, marketing, etc... totally ruined the place in their world for a static image?
Click to expand...


I was having this exact thought last night in a conversation I was having...more in relation to my art business than framing. It seems what is still there of my shrinking market is people over the age of 40...even my more contemporary images. Everything is going digital, and the art world seems to be becoming made up of even more fleeting imagery...at least what I am seeing...:shrug:
 
I'm 54. Started framing while in college, and opened my shop in 1977 at age 22.
I'm not an early adopter of new technology, but I got a CMC about a year and a half ago and I must say it definitely helps improve the experience of framing. It takes the drudgery out of routine mat cutting, while insuring accuracy and repeatability. As a design tool, it frees up the imagination. While the desktop publishing analogy can be very valid, it can make possible tasteful options that would have been difficult or impossible to execute accurately by hand. That might be no-hassle reverse bevels, a 1/16" reveal on a double mat, or something as simple and elegant as the ability to combine curves with straight lines:
UncleJohnny.jpg

Some of the opening templates, like the camelback arches or stepped openings, recall designs of the die-cut photo surrounds from the early decades of the 20th century, long before the CMC.
While I fully agree that excess is, well, excessive, the CMC is just a tool. It's up to us to be informed and tasteful designers and to use our tools for good and not evil.
;) Rick
 
But really if young people, say 30 and under framed stuff, would they have enough money? I just don't see it as a priority for them. They would probably sooner have and image tattooed on them, than spend the money framing. Maybe when they start raising a family and settling down....

True enough there are some dinosaurs frame shops out there, but it depends what your looking for too. I see a vast diversity of shops in my area.
Also the really sleek cool looking places that seem so hip, someone under 30 couldn't afford it.
 
Rick... I'm right with ya', Bud. Put in my Wizard about a year and a half ago and love the capabilities and the accuracy but shine away from using it other than to tastefully enhance the art.

:beer:
 
All wonderful insights to your lives and your business. Thank you everyone for participating. The question was really aimed more to the art side of the business, but the framing thoughts were very interesting as well. Please dont take this to mean I think I am the young hip know it all, here to push the dinosaurs of the business out. I have worked in the business for 14 years and this question seemed to come up consistently in my mind as I watched the store operate. I am excited to have the new opportunity I have been given and am trying to make the most of it. All you input has been very helpful!
 
I think you will find that printing on a professional large format printer will attract the younger crowd. Look into the Epson line of printers. I own the 9800 and the 4800 and they are a daily part of my business.
 
I am 45 and have only been in business for a year now.

I don't feel that age is the best indicator. As long as you are willing to learn, keep up to date what is 'in' in today's market, follow what the trends are, keep an open mind, don't think you know everything, I don't think age matters. Flexibility is important.
 
I started in this framing business two and half years ago after being in the Printing and Graphics side of it all. I worked near the University of Washington for 5 years and saw all the young folks coming and going. Most of the students were either always hungry, tired or in a big hurry and pre- occupied with their technology ie., iphones, laptops etc., self absorbed mostly. But you know what, they had money to spend, if not their own their parents and they weren't afraid to spend it. Although most of the work for the P&G business came from the University and they were afraid to spend it!
The area I am in now is more upscale and young professionals clamor about walking their dogs in the downtown streets with their 'little poop bags" and they spend money on framing. The ones who really spend money are the business people here.
I'm afraid my shop has become so predictable with all it's gallery wall of framed art and, readymade stuff and poster bins. Such an ordinary place in the mix of coffee shops and dance studios, big office buildings, trendy bistros or so it seems to me after two and half years. I'm 61 and had a plan to retire at 62 but those plans have been shot down by the economy.
Maybe I miss the younger crowd of the University area. Always a new and interesting happening there.
I would like to offer newer and brighter stuff for the customers and tap into the younger crowd, but I've sunk a bunch of money into what it is now. So I need younger fresher ideas. Help!
PF
 
Sorry, forgot to answer the question.
55 and I bought the shop a little over 30 years ago.
I don't know what will be the defining look of the first decade of the 21st century. Because of the economic downturn will we see a return to the crafts, like the tramp art of the 30's? Will the plastic tennite return? Or is it going to be something not recycled from historic design?

I do know the younger generation is not afraid to spend money, but they don't just want an object in return. They want an experience, entertainment and stimulation.
 
Used to sell a lot of framed art and prints - don't anymore. Is it because I'm old and just not connected?

I remember when framed prints of cute things by artists such as Dawna Barton framed in 2 mats and a colored metal frame sold as fast as we could frame them. Women customers that finally had some disposable income.

Then their husbands saw nice things on the wall but wanted more male stuff and they started buying the limited edition wildlife that was priced at 5 times the cute stuff.

Then the women moved up another step to hidden art and Romance.

Then it seemed to all fade away.

Did electronics take all the money?

So how do we get back to the good old days but with up to date stuff that sells like the stuff did in the good old days.

We're framing violins, hockey shirts, great grandma's sterling silver sewing kit, and lots of other keepsakes, but that's a lot of work. Sure would like to do 5 or 10 limited edition prints in triple mats and wood every day - that was easy money!

Survey - 34 years framing - 60 something years old, takes a calculator to get the exact number, too busy trying to beat the clock.
 
I have noticed a few comments about the younger crowd willing to spend money. My intent is not to gear business exclusively to that group. My average customer is probably between 35 and 50. My concern was keeping the art and the perseption in the store new and fresh. No one wants yesterday's art. People want whats new.
Examples of what led my to ask this question:
1) A former employee (gone for 6 years) came into the store and said "wow I could get right back to work, everything is exactly the same, right down to the prints in the flashers."
2) A customer said to her friend " Do you remember when this poster was cool? I cant believe there is a store that still has all this old stuff."
 
Well, then you know what to do! Refresh your store, make new samples, frame some different things. It seems it's not so much what's 'in' now, but that the same stuff has been hanging there for ages!

It might be that you just need change. When I opened my store, it was in the exact spot as the previous frame shop. I ripped everything out, put in new flooring, painted, updated the walls with veltex, fresh new samples, and more samples going up every day. Kept everything light and airy and got lots of comments from customers from previous shop. It also made the statement that this was a completely new shop. It helped a lot.

Sooooo, update your looks! (you're young enough ;))
 
Time to empty those print bins. Put up a sign that the prints are free with framing. Several have done this with very limited success.
 
Prints...argh!

Jeff Rodier said:
Time to empty those print bins. Put up a sign that the prints are free with framing. Several have done this with very limited success.
Click to expand...

No kidding! I've put that and similar signs up on the posters I have that have been hanging around the shop for more than two years (and probably something more like five or six years) and have sold very few. I'm considering giving them away in bundles next time one of the local churches asks for a silent auction donation.

I just moved to a new location and I'm hoping the change in customers at least buys them up to get them out of here!

Since I was able to make a bunch of changes in moving my shop I've manged to fill up the windows with other retail items to drag people in and the locals here (only a mile and a half from the old place) are amazed by the selection of frame samples I have all over the walls.
I would suggest making any changes you can to make the store look new, fresh, and like it belongs to you rather than keep the stale look the last owner had. I don't think I changed enough when I first bought the shop two years ago, but with this move, I'm making up for it!
 
I wonder if just selling the prints for $1 each would have better results. People love to get a bargain and for the students in your area they could tape them to the wall. Those $1 shoppers could turn into real customers in the future.
 
Print bins in storage. Prints are rolled in tubes on the floor near the back wall where water comes under when the girls next door back up the toilet - happens every year. I'll put them on the next insurance list at cost.
 
we "re-arrange" the store monthly...move everything around and it looks like you have new stuff....also we frame prints(nicely matted), etc that have been in stock for more than 3 months and put them in the gallery..they sell better than in sleaves in a bin.....the free print with framing order was a bust when we tried it...it's not hard to keep a fresh look with old stock if you get creative.
 
I believe that age is a mindset and a way of life. In order to stay connected to the younger crowd it is really important to take classes, read about current trends and apply that to both art selection and framing. If framers always frame exactly the same way and do not take the opportunities presented by the industry leaders, the designs can become stale. Even tried and true designs can have a little twist or flare added. This can be very subtle as to not detract from the artwork and keeps the work fresh.

Oh, the age question......getting older every year and still feel young at heart!
 
48 yrs old - male
 
Prospero - if you were to include your birthdate in your Grumble profile, then this prestigious event would be on the Grumble calendar and EVERYONE would know about this vaunted date and you would no doubt receive many cakes and other goodies to boot! ;)
 
Some thoughts about frames. The Larson moulding 548WO has been around since the 80's. It still sells well for me, so I keep it around along with the 440WO and 444WO. The WO stands for walnut on OAK!!! I really dislike oak and only brilng that out when requested.

What I really like are the cool mouldings represented by Roma and the like. If I had my druthers, that is what I would only sell. I do get the rare customer who is willing to try something really different and they are generally very happy with the end product. One of my best customers has been willing to try some of those really cool mouldings and always comes back to tell me how people comment on those pieces and want to know where they were framed.

The bigger problem, as I see it, is every other customer wants the "simple black moulding" or oak to match the woodwork. At least it isn't metal anymore. We have graduated to wood. To me, those are very tired looks. I want more exciting. Fortunately, I am able to convince about 15% of my customers to use fillets. I would love to get someone to try slanted corners on their mats.

I am in the upper range of 35-60.
 
66 - started my shop 14 years ago at my wife's instigation to keep me busy when I finally retired from flying. It's been a great decision and the shop has become more fun as I have moved to higher quality product - tidy profit with less work.
 
RParrish said:
But really if young people, say 30 and under framed stuff, would they have enough money? I just don't see it as a priority for them. They would probably sooner have and image tattooed on them, than spend the money framing. Maybe when they start raising a family and settling down....

True enough there are some dinosaurs frame shops out there, but it depends what your looking for too. I see a vast diversity of shops in my area.
Also the really sleek cool looking places that seem so hip, someone under 30 couldn't afford it.
Click to expand...

I think it's a broad assumption that "...(you) dont see it as a priority for them". Take a look at Low-Brow and Street Art. The people I see framing this kind of art are in the 20 - 40 demographic. The prints (Banksy, Josh Keyes, etc.) are expensive ($200 - $5000 +), and our clients want innovative (and usually high end) framing.

Not a soapbox, not an attack, just a suggestion not to write off a market segment so quickly.:icon21:
 
Framar said:
Prospero - if you were to include your birthdate in your Grumble profile, then this prestigious event would be on the Grumble calendar and EVERYONE would know about this vaunted date and you would no doubt receive many cakes and other goodies to boot! ;)
Click to expand...


Arrrrrrrrrrrrgggh! I have only just found my profile. :o Two years worth of visitor messages. Sorry folks if you think I have been ignoring y'all.

Yes Shayla, I do know what a Spork is.:)

What'dya expect at my age. The brain cells are dissappearing daily. :icon21:

I'm going to sit in the corner now and dribble. :kaffeetrinker_2:
 
just when I think the 20somethings have no taste other than the color skin on there iPhruit . . . they walk in with a Celtic Pre-Rafaelite Katuba that they designed and paid through the nose to have done, and "want it framed right".

My 20 yr old web monster lives like he's in a dorm, has stuff taped and thumbtacked to his walls, and has three "out of the trash" frames with valuable comics mashed in with cardboard.

Then he drops a $2K comic (Spiderman first appears or something) and says.... "this needs to be done up right". Go figure. He still dresses like a slob, but he shaved this week. :D :icon11:

Portland is kind of out in a universe by itself in that the young art is (IMHO) "edgy for edgy sake". . . and really not worth more than an IKEA frame and cardboard.

Oh, almost forgot..... in and out and in and out and in since 1966.
 
Create a Post
Back
Top