A different question about fillets

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Kit

Kit

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Aug 31, 2000
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Rochester, MN
Jana's post reminded me that I've been meaning to ask about this. Do you add a spacer to any framing project where the fillet is higher than the surface of the top mat? It seems to me that the pressure of fitting the package into the frame could cause the mat to bow away from the edge of the fillet. What's the concensus?

Kit
 
Indeed, Kit, and what a pain in the patootie it is. Took only too many times to figure out the answer to "What in the....!?" after fitting and watching the mat lift from the fillet edge. I'm ashamed to admit that I now avoid fillets where it becomes necessary to add that spacer under the frame lip---unless truly forced by design issues--and then I add true money! to make up for it.

An offender is Arquati's 631-247-000, a nice highly-rounded gold 1/8th incher I call my Bread'nButter fill. Hate that danged fit!
 
<marquee>OK, I edited this post, so what?</marquee> Absolutely, Kit. I use the Arlo spacemakers, they're easy to cut; you just score the spacer deeply with a razor blade and snap! I also like them because they don't take long to put on your glazing once you get the hang of them.
I shim out my mat with acid-free foamcore (1/8" or 3/16") and seal wooden fillets with Lineco aluminum sealing tape.
 
. I use the Arlo spacemakers, they're easy to cut
Click to expand...
Oh yeah? What are you using to cut them? I use wire cutters and end up shooting bits of hard plastic all over the place. Yelling 'spacer' in the shop is akin to yelling 'fore' on a golf course. Everyone quickly learns to duck and cover.
 
If you score the paper side with a razor blade you can snap it very easily and cleanly.
 
Don't forget to mark the samples with a code (we use a red dot) on the back of the samples to indicate that a spacer is needed. Some people forget to add the fillet.

By the way our fillet samples are glued to mat board corners for added strength and the allow better control when showing the samples to clients. We also have a "installation charge" to account for leveling the back of the mat even with the fillets. The charge lis less than a mat.
 
Depending on the shape of the spacer, I will sometimes add a layer or two of mat behind the mat opening, thus bringing the spacer down to level of the top mat.

MM I have used this method on that Arquati fillet. Of course some adjustments may have to be made as the fillet will set back in the mat more.
 
It must be too early in the morning for me 'cause I can't make head nor tail out of half these posts.

It seems that the spacemakers would be on the wrong side of the top mat if you stuck them on the glass surface. Don't you need that spacer BEHIND the top mat?? :confused:

OK, I need some coffee, ...............NOW!

That's better. I find that I need to use a spacer behind the top mat for almost ALL fillets. It ranges from a single mat spacer up to 3/16" foam core sometimes. And regarding glueing fillets to mat samples to show them, that one went right by me completely.

One thing I do extra to fillets to keep them together is to glue one of the back pieces of a metal frame corner (the thin flat metal part) right on the miter of the fillet with a bit of silicone glue. It doesn't throw the fit of the fillet sample off that much when showing it and you can use those really neat chevron velcro thingys on them to store on the wall. Also it keeps the miter joint from breaking and giving you 2 little fillet scraps held together with a piece of velcro.

(Quote from Jim Svetlecic)

Depending on the shape of the spacer, I will sometimes add a layer or two of mat behind the mat opening, thus bringing the spacer down to level of the top mat.

MM I have used this method on that Arquati fillet. Of course some adjustments may have to be made as the fillet will set back in the mat more.

Jim, I'm sorry, but this simply confused me completely!!
shrug.gif
My visionary skills have shut down and won't function for me today. I have no idea what you said. (And I'm honestly not tryin' to be a smart @ss.)

Framer(yawn)guy
 
I also use the same method as Jim. I haven't ever used spacers with mats (in fact, it is one of my pet peeves) and we use tons of fillets. Sometimes just backing them off with a strip of 2 ply does the trick and sometimes it's a 4 ply. I have also at times had to paint that strip (at least on the edge) black.
 
These posts are the reason I love BevelAccents so much. They give that bit of detail and depth but with so much less work and effort.

I wanted to ask how many worry about the wooden fillet right next to the art and how many use the metal rabbet sealing tape under them? I put my fillets over a double mat, move them out an inch from the bottom mat opening and use the tape. Gives the art visual room and I think is safer.

If the art was very valuable, would you use a wooden fillet in the housing at all?

I glue the fillets so my corners always look nice and never separate, but see lots that have not been glued. Why would they not be glued?

I also never hand wrap fabric mats anymore, I use premounted fabrics with a reverse bevel. Saves lots of time.

If this is a subject already covered in The Grumble, I apologize. Just a bunch of stuff that I've always wondered and with such a vocal group, I bet I find out.

Nopna Powers, CPF, GCF
www.nonapowers.com
 
I am deeply ashamed. I really <U>do</U> think there should be a distinction between this forum and Warped. Sometimes the lines are blurred.

BTW, how many of you know that John Ranes directed me here last July? John's known me for 24 years, so he can't plead ignorance.

Ron
 
Gotcha Bro!

Dat 'splains the haps on da fillet done, now wha's da make wid de big "A" jive at de back door o' yo's 'splaining??
 
<font color= indianred><marquee>RON STARTED IT!............................RON STARTED IT!............................RON STARTED IT!</MARQUEE></font>
 
I use arlo spacemakers with all filet and I charge for it...extra labor as well. We seal all fillet with waterbased polyurethane. Once it is adhered to the mat we shim up the space with acid free foam or acid free matboard,then tape the back of the filet to this shim with lineco foil tape. THEN we cut a 2 ply rag mat to fit behind the whole thing. Overkill? Not if you want to protect the package. We sell a lot of filet now because we like the look and what's more our customers are always impressed. Do we charge enough for all the aggravation? YOU BET! Otherwise we would never sell it! My first couple of years in business I avoided selling them because of the aggravation. Then one day I woke up and said well, if it's aggravatin', charge for it! Everyone loves the look, but not everyone can afford it. But hey, no one is going to sell me a Mercedes for half price just cuz' I really like the car but can't afford it (yet)! We reinforce the corner samples with the metal backplate used to assemble metal frames and then hang them on the front of our custom counter.
 
How did you guys know I was doing a build-up job right now?

I have to say some of the posts confuse me, too, because I space under and over, with mats or foamcore to build up the underside of the mat to the height or higher than the back of the fillet, and then a spacer under the glass at the underside of the lip of the frame to keep the top of the fillet from rubbing the glazing.

Now. Is that the same as what Jim, MM, FG*, and everyone else said? Sorry if I'm redundant, but like I said....I'm confused.

Also, I use rabbet sealing barrier tape over the bottom of the fillet where it isn't touching the not-too-valuable art, but just so that acid can't make a leap onto the art over time.

Is this right? I hope so. I've done a lot like this. Answer quick, please. I'm moving along on this one.

*FG--My mind can't picture how to do this without spacing. Help me out here, cause I know you do quality work.
 
Ok. The mat is opening is cut. Before I attatch the fillet into the opening I add another layer of mat. Let's say 4-ply is added thus making the mat thickness 1/8 inch. So when I put the fillet into the mat now it won't be sticking up above the mat as far. I hope that helps.

My employees complain about my powers of explaination
icon9.gif
.

Of course the rest of the fitting is normal-build-up, gray sealing tape, etc.
 
Yeah, all that stuff Mel said.
If we use a fillet with a top which is taller than the level of the mat to which it's attached, we level out the package with a spacer under the glass/frame lip: if we don't, the mat "pops" off the ledge of the fillet because the glass pushes down on the fillet top. We use atg and glue on the ledge, glue on the mitres.

Nona, our process is about the same on mats under the fillet. If mats are simply unacceptable, we use the Lineco tape to buffer the bottom of the fillet. (But if the art is really valuable, we probably won't use fillets at all.)

Fillets are great, but time-consuming; and we probably don't charge enough for them. :(
 
Mel,

I hope you followed your instincts with the fillet buildup this afternoon. I was busy all afternoon in the shop and didn't get a chance to get back on the G. 'till now.

You are doing things OK. with adding fillets. I make it a habit of selling double mats with every fillet and always install the fillet in the top mat. That gives you a healthy mat overlap under the fillet (I usually extend the bottom mat to 3/8"-3/4" when using a fillet) and helps to keep the bare wood of the fillet away from the surface of the art paper.

I NEVER place a fillet on the mat that's against the artwork. Just a quirk of mine but I feel that, even with mylar tape on the fillet surface, there is still too close a proximity to the art paper to make things totally safe.

Jim, I understand now what you were talking about with the mat spacer. You place a spacer under the mat and the full width of it BEFORE you install the fillet to keep the top of the fillet from hitting the glass. Right? Hokay!

FGII
 
NOTICE I've become Lance for a while to demonstrate that we can change our screen names to anything. I'm not sure this is a good thing - still thinking about it.

Thanks Cathie, I knew you would understand what I was talking about. I was just looking for some reassurance that I wasn't indulging in overkill by adding spacers with fillets.

Kit
 
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