8 x 10 pricing

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Sharonx

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
May 27, 2003
Posts
219
Loc
Watertown, SD
My biggest aim for 2004 is to get a handle on my inventory. I am trying to keep better records of what I have in stock and try to push that. Which brings a question to mind. What do you do when a customer brings in her frame to have a mat put in and picks some gosh awful color which you never carry and you only need an 8 x 10? How do you charge for a sheet of mat you know will lay in the stock room forever?
 
In my shop that single 8 x 10 mat would cost the customer $12.24 once you add the "fitting" charge which is our labor. That $12.24 more than pays for the 32 x 40 mat. What is left over will eventually sell. If someone wanted it once, someone will want it again otherwise they would have never made it in the first place. Jean in Maine
 
Originally posted by Sharon:
How do you charge for a sheet of mat you know will lay in the stock room forever?
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Full price - standard proceedure. Use the ugly rest for dumbies - to fill a frame when applicable - slip sheets . . .

My resolution -- This is the year for "END OF FREEBIES". Discounts go only to students and county fair entries. . . well, that's my list so far.
 
No matter what size mat you sell, your cost on the mat board should be covered PLUS your labor charges. For example, a customer wants a 4"X 5" mat with 2"X 3" opening. She selects a Mormon suede mat. I"m at home now, so I don't have my price list, so I will guess that a sheet of Mormon Suede costs me $17.00. I would charge $25.00 minimum for that mat.

We are customer Picture framers, what if we were custom model builders. Lets say you want a model of the new mega picture framing store you are going to open. You go to a model builder so you can have a model for your presentation to your investors.

If you think the model builder is going to charge you for the materials they actually use to build your model, think again. If they need to purchase a 4'X 8' sheet of whatever and they only need a few inches for your project, you are still going to pay for the entire sheet. Thats just the way it is. You would not expect the model builder to spend $800.00 on materials, then charge you only $300.00 for the completed project, would you?

We have to work the same way in our pricing. We can not be expected to purchase our materials for a project, then sell it for less than those materials. How do we know if we will ever sell the remainder before it is destroyed in storage?

Don't be afraid to charge what you need to charge to earn a living, your customers do not expect that of you. ( Well, most of them anyway )

John
 
I have two groups of price codes for my mats. One code is for any of the 500 mats I stock. The other, for any special-order board.

With the latter code, the customer is charged for a full sheet of board, plus the labor charge. If they need a 2"x3" mat from a board I don't stock, I'll order it and cut it and they'll pay for the full sheet. I don't save the "scrap." I use it for filler or flawboard or to feed the Mat Maestro.

My responsibility is to make sure those 500 stock boards represent a good range so that customers are routinely paying $34 for a 2"x3" mat.
 
I have chosen to stock all of the Artique and most of the Crescent rag, suede, and some of the linens in my shop. I only show what I stock. If the customer wants something other than what I show on 2 rull racks of mat samples, I will order it for them if it is available and, up front, tell them that the board is a special order and will have to be paid for in its entirety. If they want the leftovers I give them what is left. Most times they don't. But that is the only way that I will charge the prices that were quoted in other posts to this question.

If I have to cut a 4x5 out of anything that I have in stock I charge for the size of the cut mat including the labor. If I wanted a model of my shop built for some reason, I would get a price up front from the model builder and, chances are good, he would have enough stock laying around to build it without ordering a complete set of materials to do the job.

John, your example is good for a large complex representation of a building but I doubt that it would take $800 worth of materials to build a $300 model. How many times have you had a cutoff matboard in your shop that you could cut a customer's mat out of?? Are you charging that customer the price of a full sheet of matboard for that job?? If so, I don't think that you are doing your customers a just service.

Looking at this another way, suppose you had a customer come in for a Crescent 1600 mat for a 5x7 frame. You charge that customer for the full price of that board. Then, just by sheer coincidence, you have another 3 customers come in asking for 5x7 mats cut out of the same 1600 board. Do you charge each of them for the cost of a full board? Man, if I could get away with that kind of retail sales and still be able to sleep at night, I would be very shocked at myself!

I am not an advocate of giving away my talents but there is a limit to what I will do to make an extra buck. I want that customer back in the future for more framing and I doubt that they would EVER return if I socked them $25 or more for a mat that I could cut for them in the time it takes to browse around my frame shop.

Framerguy
 
Framerguy, the example of the model builder was hypothetical. I do not know anything about model building or what they charge. I charge my customers the cost of the mat board plus labor, just like you. If I have cutoffs in stock, I charge $8.00 per mat. I do not pay $7.00 for a sheet of mat board, then charge my customers $4.00 for their mat.

I have never had trouble sleeping at night except when I was married.

I am in business to earn a living. I have long ago given up any notions of becoming a wealthy man from picture framing. I also have no intentions of becoming destitute from picture framing.

What's up with the sharpshooting anyway?

John
 
Things seem to be a bit tense tonight on the Grumble.

John, I wasn't trying to take any potshots at you or your business. I must have mis-interpreted your post. I thought you said that you would charge a customer $25 for a 4x5 suede board. That would leave most of the board for another sale. Since I stock and use all of the Moorman suedes on a regular basis, I guess I misunderstood your point. It just sounded like you were charging alot for that little 4x5 matboard (full price of the board) and you never were clear on what you did with the 32x36 left over portion of that board. Sorry if I came off sounding like I was bashing you.

Just to be clear on this, I would charge probably $12.00 for a 4x5 suede board with a window cut. But the left over board would be placed in my stock and used for another job and costed out at whatever my FrameReady program decides it should be costed out at. My POS program costs out materials according to either a predetermined formula or by the UI regardless of size. I could never substantiate charging the full cost of the mat board for cutting a small mat when I stock all of these boards anyway. Even the small portions of those boards are used for lining boxes and gift items that I enjoy building. There are only about 4 or 5 suedes that I don't use regularly. (That pale pink one isn't one of my best sellers!)

Hey, you have my serious apologies if you took offense at what I said about costing out small boards. I think that we both agreed on the answer to the original question. If the board is a special order the customer should be made aware of it and charged accordingly for the special order.

Now, if we were having a discussion about all of this over a cold beer tonight, none of this misunderstanding would have taken place!! ;)

Framerguy

[ 01-05-2004, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: Framerguy ]
 
Framerguy, I don't stock suede boards. I did state in my original post that I was guessing at the cost of the board, my $25.00 price was hypothetical. Suede would be a special order for me IF my cost was $17.00, my price would still be $25.00. My prices are dictated by my local market, what can be sold in San Diego for $100.00 may only bring $50.00 in your area. Again, those numbers are hypothetical, as was the difference in price.

One thing for sure is, you don't want to be around me if I am liquored up.I have not touched a drop in almost twenty years. I just got to darn rowdey, had to quit.

John
 
When a customer comes in with their own 8 X 10 frame, I tell them that they can choose any of the colors we have in our mat rack BUT I can really offer you a great price if you can find a color that will work in "these 8 X 10 blanks". I have a stack of 8 X 10's in each basic color (think of a box of crayola crayons). I sell them a piece of scrap for $2 - probably 99 out of 100 of these customers go for it - they are not our typical custom framing client - they are looking for something cheap.
 
Another tactic is use to avoid having to order - and charge the customer for - a full sheet of non-stock board is to cross-reference the boards in my POS database.

This is especially handy if someone wants to match an old buffered mat (and it could be one that I cut years ago.) I can upgrade them to an equivalent rag or Alphamat and still maintain the look. I might suggest they upgrade the old mat while they're at it.

Like most worthwhile things, it took a while to develop a cross-reference for four matboard manufacturers, and it's still a work-on-progress.
 
Man, would I like to have a cross-reference sheet like that! Why, you could sell that for actual MONEY!
 
How MUCH money, Ellen?

Just kidding. Let me see about getting it into a format that will be useful to others and I'd be happy to share.

It's currently a MS Works wdb (database file.)
 
Our L***** rep gave us such a cross reference chart, printed on stickers that can go on the back of the samples. There were a few errors, but it's very handy info.
 
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