3M bumpers melting!!!!!

I almost always use the gray felt ones now...occasionally the clear Bumpons when more depth is needed. Sometimes even use the white nylon bumper tacks. I'm not convinced the adhesive on the cork ones won't slide off fairly soon.
:kaffeetrinker_2: Rick
 
If I need more depth, I just piggyback the felt ones.
 
Bumpers serve two purposes on the bottom corners of the frame:

1. Prevent the frame from marking the wall.
2. Maintain an air gap, so air can circulate freely behind the frame.

Almost any sort of pad on the bottom corners could serve the first purpose. But 1/16" thick pads of felt or cork would not serve the second purpose. 3M BumpOns and off-brand clones of them protrude from the frame by about 3/16".

There should be an air gap of at least 1/8" behind the frame at top and bottom, in order to assure free air flow. That's easy at the top, as most hanging hardware provides about 1/4" gap.

In modern construction, the central HVAC system causes air to circulate up and down the wall surfaces constantly. Even when the system is not running, air moves as it stratifies -- remember, warm air rises and cool air falls.

If there is an inadequate gap behind the frame, air will stagnate there, creating a favorable haven for dust, airborne contaminants, and insects. Think of moving air as being similar to moving water. In a creek, for example, if there is a spot where the flow is interrupted and the water is stagnant, all sorts of debris accumulates there. So it is behind a frame on a wall, when free air circulation is impeded. 3/16" gap is good; 1/16" gap is not.

Regarding adhesives, I haven't seen any that are superior to 3M's. Indeed, I have seen numerous failures of the cheaper felt and cork pads, where the adhesive becomes gummy and smears across the paper. I've also seen the adhesive dry out, and then the pads just fall off.

Of course, when the bumper protrudes from the frame by only 1/16", it is less likely to be snagged off in handling, than when it protrudes by 3/16". But the main problem is not the adhesive, it is the paper to which it is stuck. Over a small surface area, paper fibers shred away easily. As Ellen suggested, adding a patch of something like Framer's Tape or Scotch Tape greatly improves the surface area of bumper adhesion to the dustcover paper's fibers, and makes it much more difficult to snag them off. I buy clear tape spots at the office supply store specifically for this purpose, and they work quite well.
 
I love your explanations, Jim. They're like watching those old Mr. Science films. ;)(I mean that in a complimentary way.)
Have you ben using the clear dots long enough to judge the aging quality of their adhesive? If it isn't the "weak link in the chain" it sounds like a good, aesthetically pleasing solution. I've avoided the piece-of-tape route for looks reasons. :icon9:
:cool: Rick
 
An ordinary piece of transparent tape is quite inconspicuous, but the 1" diameter clear "dots" I use are downright pretty.

I have been using clear and black BumpOns for as long as I can remember. I've never had issues with 3M, but I have bought off-brand, similar-looking clear bumpers on occasion, and they can discolor over time...like, after 5 years. None of them have shown signs of adhesive deterioration, though. And I've never had a "melting" problem with black or clear of any brand.

Mr. Science was my dad.:thumbsup:










(just kidding about that, rest his soul)
 
We've had about 4 or 5 customers come in over the past year and mention to us that the round brown 3M bumpers suddendly start to melt and leave a long brown drip mark down the wall. I've gathered that this is not caused by heat or anything and the melting bumpers are usually about 8 years old.
Has anyone ever heard of this happening?
After the second person came in to our store complaining of this, I called 3M and was connected to a lab tech., who told me that he has heard of it but not enough of it to warrant them actually looking into it.
Luckily noone was seriously angry at this happening, since apparently the brown drip is next to impossible to get off the wall.
Maybe if enough of us have had this happen, 3M will change their bumper recipe!!!!!
 
The bumpers are made of vinyl. If the wall has vinyl paint or a vinyl wallpaper, then the bumpers will absorb the vinyl in the wall and they will become softer or turn to a liquid state, because they now have too much vinyl in them. If the wall were to be say plain drywall, the wall would absorb the vinyl and the bumper would become dry and brittle.
 
I remember this being a big issue about 20 years ago.
 
About once a year we have a customer bring in a piece that has melted bumpons.
A few years back I switched out the bumpons for a customer that had such a problem they had to scrape, sand and repaint their walls.
 
The thread is still relevant. The problem persists.
I have noticed a squishy or melted brown 3M bumpon on one of my frames at home.
I had no idea it "was a thing", just thought it was a weird one-time occurrence.
Never have had a customer mention it is a problem.
But if it takes many years to manifest then maybe it's time to consider alternatives.
 
Good to bring this thread up again then, for those who have never heard or seen this problem. I have seen it on things coming in to be re-framed. It is a messy goo.
I have never used the brown bumpons. I know a lot of framers favor felt, which I don't care for. I use the clear bumpons and so far, so good.
 
At least its not our car bumpers melting.................for now........................unless you live in Arizona or one of those hot spots.

aB80LE2_700b.jpg


cars_melting_arizona_miscaption_faux.jpg
 
I've seen similar softening and stickiness in the little rubber feet on the bottoms of desktop items like phones, calculators, etc.
 
Geez, now I am super paranoid about all the brown bumpers I have used for all kinds of stuff.
I'm going to check every frame in my home.
I use them under appliances and countertop boxes and other things too.

😨
 
Geez, now I am super paranoid about all the brown bumpers I have used for all kinds of stuff.
I'm going to check every frame in my home.
I use them under appliances and countertop boxes and other things too.

😨

The table damage was from the black ones. The brown were also problematic, both were the United Manufacturers brand. I still have some unused that are as good as new, yet they are about 20 years old. Been sitting in a tool box in a plastic bag.
I have always used them for various reasons. The ones pictured below are over 25 years old with no problems. They also were probably from United. :shrug:
1633570481042.jpeg
1633570333081.jpeg
s
1633570373815.jpeg
 
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The table damage was from the black ones. The brown were also problematic, both were the United Manufacturers brand. I still have some unused that are as good as new, yet they are about 20 years old. Been sitting in a tool box in a plastic bag.
I have always used them for various reasons. The ones pictured below are over 25 years old with no problems. They also were probably from United. :shrug:
View attachment 40006View attachment 40004sView attachment 40005
So this phenomena seems pretty random and unforeseeable?
I used to use clear ones, but switched to brown because they were cheaper.
I wonder if there is any difference in the chemical formula?
Maybe time to go back to clear?
Or change to felt, or foam, or cork?
I dunno what to do anymore!! 😵‍💫
 
I have been using the felt ones for years. Larger brown felt, smaller grey felt, even smaller black felt.

After a while many kinds of plastic start becoming sticky, as the plasticizers ooze out. I have a lovely purple horse/pegasus figure (She Ra?) with blue plastic/rubbery wings and the wings are constantly dusty because they ooze and attract dust.

Same thing happens to shoes, underwear, and linings in purses. Bought a great Le Sportsac bag on eBay and when I received it the inner lining was all sticky and gooey. But I WANTED that bag. So I did some experimenting with what would dissolve the stickiness, turned out to be isopropyl alcohol, bought a couple of bottles at the drug store, and soaked away all the nastiness without ruining the rest of the purse. Have been using it for years, and the seller refunded me the cost of the isopropyl.

Hmmm. Wondering now if isopropyl would clean melted bumpers off of a wall . . .
 
In 52 years of framing I have seen the melting brown and white bump-ons.
Some even on recent re-framing orders that came in with the original frames...:shutup:
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So this phenomena seems pretty random and unforeseeable?
I used to use clear ones, but switched to brown because they were cheaper.
I wonder if there is any difference in the chemical formula?
Maybe time to go back to clear?
Or change to felt, or foam, or cork?
I dunno what to do anymore!! 😵‍💫

I like these:
Soft Rubber Bumpers 1/2 X 3/8

1633582557222.jpeg
615sD5RTtbL._AC_SL1000_.jpg








 
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Old memory from my store in Minnesota ( Home to 3M)

The melted bumpers left a stain on the wall paper of her Lake Minnetonka Mansion.

I did what I could and thankfully it didn't come from my shop.

I saved the old bumpers and dustpaper for my "wall of shame"

I explained it was a flaw in the materials from 3M company and maybe a call to their customer service would bring a better explanation.

She was nice to me and said she would do that................................... Knowing this lady and her connections I would guess she cornered the President of 3M on the golf course or charity function to air her complaint. 😬


brown bumpers.jpg
 
I've seen them 'creep' and leave a trail behind like a snail. 😕
I wonder how far they get in 14 years?
'If you get caught between the moon and New York City, I know it's crazy, but it's true. If you get caught between the moon and New York City, try to outrun the bumpon that's following you...'
 
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'If you get caught between the moon and New York City, I know it's crazy, but it's true. If you get caught between the moon and New York City, try to outrun the bumpon that's following you...'
Off topic, but I heard yesterday that if you stacked 7 piles, with one hundred dollar bills that reached all the way to the moon, it would be less than the national dept. Just saying.
 
Off topic, but I heard yesterday that if you stacked 7 piles, with one hundred dollar bills that reached all the way to the moon, it would be less than the national dept. Just saying.
That's crazy, but is it true?
 
Off topic, but I heard yesterday that if you stacked 7 piles, with one hundred dollar bills that reached all the way to the moon, it would be less than the national dept. Just saying.
Are they metric or standard?
 
Our debt is 29 trillion, what I mentioned was what I heard on the radio yesterday.
I found this just now, it was done 2017 when the debt was 20 trillion.


$20 Trillion of U.S. Debt Visualized Using Stacks of $100 Bills
bb18798e371a5d8fd8e52038cd5d1008

Published
4 years ago

on
June 1, 2017
By
Jeff Desjardins

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For most people, our experiences in everyday life are with using lower numbers like one, two, or ten. We not only comprehend what it means to buy five apples, but we can also visualize exactly what that might look like. In other words, these are numbers that fall within a range that is very intuitive for most humans.
Extrapolate that a little higher and we can still comprehend the numbers, but we start to lose that intuition.
Are there 1,500 or 2,000 people at a music venue? It’s hard to know for sure, but we do at least have a basic comprehension of the sizes of those numbers. Every day, we do math with numbers in the thousands – a paycheck, a credit card bill, or paying rent.

Millions, billions, trillions​

This is where things start to get dodgy. Once numbers get beyond the millions, we don’t really have any intuition, tactile familiarity, or comprehension of what they mean.
For example:
  • One million seconds = 12 days
  • One billion seconds = 32 years
  • One trillion seconds = 32,000 years
Going back in time a trillion seconds would place you well before written history, the building of the pyramids, and 10,000 years before the first cave wall paintings in France.
Our monkey brains don’t really know what to do with these giant abstractions, and so it helps to think about them in different ways, especially visually.

The Visual Interpretation​

Looking at visual representations of these numbers will help to put them in perspective.
Below is a series of fantastic 3d graphics produced by Demonocracy.info that help to do this for the $20 trillion in U.S. Federal Government debt. It starts with a $100 bill, and goes from there. Enjoy!

1. Here is a single $100 bill.​

A single $100 bill

2. Here is $10,000, or 100 of those same bills in a stack.​

$10,000 or 100 of those bills

3. $1 million, or equal to 92 years of work for the average human on Earth.​

$1 million visualized in $100 bills

4. $100 million on a pallet. The couch is worth a cool $46.7 million, too.​

$100 million visualized in $100 bills

5. $1 Billion – getting bigger…​

$1 billion visualized in $100 bills

6. $1 trillion, looking at it from a front angle.​

$1 trillion visualized in $100 bills

7. Here’s a better view of the $1 trillion with the White House.​

$1 trillion visualized in $100 bills

8. Finally, here’s $20+ trillion of U.S. government debt.​

$20 trillion in U.S. government debt

For more on putting the U.S. debt in perspective, here’s a video showing Trump’s $20 trillion problem, as well as visualizing the debt from a more 2d perspective.
 
Sorry to get off of the Bumper subject, I will end this, with a response to Larry.

In 1950 the population of the US was 151 million. ( Todays population 331 million )
The national debt in 1950 was 251 billon. ( Todays debt 29 trillion )
 
[off-topic posts reported multiple times]

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[off-topic posts reported multiple times]

Friendly reminder from the team: We have a near zero tolerance policy for politics on the main forums, to keep it conflict free, and have a special political sub section just for those discussions. (political memes, politically motivated links, misinformation with an agenda, partisan opinion sharing, etc) Folks doing this repeatedly may even find their access limited to ONLY the political section.

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Thanks in advance for your courtesy and consideration for others
Was not intended, just kinda went in that direction. (#94) Have continued the discussion at the Dog Pile. ( Us Budget Deficit )
Thanks for kind response.
DH
 
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