Question 30x40 dyed silks?????

[Rodneyk]

Hi guys, I'm racking my brain trying to give this customer what shes asking for. Im trying to make sure im not just giving up too soon and telling her the job is as good as its going to get! I have 6- 30x40 silks she wants in an art show so PLEXI is required for glazing. They need to be mounted with a 1" border floating in a driftwood frame. All is good and well to us but the artist is wanting every little ripple completely gone from the silk. So ive sandwiched the mounting board with another framed "backer" built from stretcher bar and 3/16" foamboard. Ive got enough pressure across the entire back surface to slightly bow the plexi forward. the silk is still seemingly floating between the layers and there is no change in the apearance. (according to our shop they look fine)

What else can I do to get the silk squashed tight enough to remove the last little bit of ripples? Or have I done all there is and should go ahead and explain the situation to my artist/customer?

Any ideas would be greatly apreciated!!! Ive only been framing 3 years and havent exactly seen all there is to see so you wont hurt my feelings if you say im way off!!


Thank you Rodney
West Coast Art

 

[Rodneyk]

Hi guys, I'm racking my brain trying to give this customer what shes asking for. Im trying to make sure im not just giving up too soon and telling her the job is as good as its going to get! I have 6- 30x40 silks she wants in an art show so PLEXI is required for glazing. They need to be mounted with a 1" border floating in a driftwood frame. All is good and well to us but the artist is wanting every little ripple completely gone from the silk. So ive sandwiched the mounting board with another framed "backer" built from stretcher bar and 3/16" foamboard. Ive got enough pressure across the entire back surface to slightly bow the plexi forward. the silk is still seemingly floating between the layers and there is no change in the apearance. (according to our shop they look fine)

What else can I do to get the silk squashed tight enough to remove the last little bit of ripples? Or have I done all there is and should go ahead and explain the situation to my artist/customer?

Any ideas would be greatly apreciated!!! Ive only been framing 3 years and havent exactly seen all there is to see so you wont hurt my feelings if you say im way off!!


Thank you Rodney
West Coast Art

 

[05]

Without having seen these, my guess is that pressure is not going to do the trick, but that they will have to be stretched over something to be made perfectly flat. The maker is not going to like this one tiny little bit, as some edge will be lost to view. It is, unfortunately, something that should have been considered at the beginning of the project, not left as a problem for someone else to solve at the end (not that the maker needs to be told this).

Whoever the maker is, they will probably not have kind words.

 

[05]

P.S. Unless you have experience with stretching this kind of fabric, decline to do the work gracefully, pleading lack of this particular expertise. Otherwise you're just asking for trouble.

 

[auntiesarahjayne]

could we see the front of the image?

How did you mount the silks so they are floating?

Are the edges seamed or raw?

In my experience, squashing the silk just adds ripples in other places.

If you can answer those questions and show the front, we may be give more advice.

-Sarah

 

[Framing Goddess]

some links to explore

http://thegrumble.com/showthread.php?50512-Giant-Asian-Silk&highlight=muslin

 

[Rodneyk]

could we see the front of the image?

How did you mount the silks so they are floating?

Are the edges seamed or raw?

In my experience, squashing the silk just adds ripples in other places.

If you can answer those questions and show the front, we may be give more advice.

-Sarah

Hi and thank you for the helpful advice. These are raw edged which is what they wanted to see hence the floating with a border. That alone is a fun task to keep straight, flat and ripple free. So i called some suppliers to get some mounting advice and the safest and most non damaging technique came down to acid free atg around the entire outer edge. the artist seems to think we are magicians but I didnt help any by creating the first piece practically error free! i would love some more ideas on mounting tips if there is anything else I could suggest to them, other than stitches or saturating with fabric glue...I am trying to reload the pic of the front of the art. Thank you so much for helping me.

Rodney

 

[Rodneyk]

yay!

http://thegrumble.com/showthread.php?50512-Giant-Asian-Silk&highlight=muslin

Thank you very much! lots of good ideas in that thread.:smiley:

 

[Rodneyk]

P.S. Unless you have experience with stretching this kind of fabric, decline to do the work gracefully, pleading lack of this particular expertise. Otherwise you're just asking for trouble.

Thank you only I do have successful and safe mounting techniques and have mounted tons of different types of fabrics. Only this particular design/customer combo is possibly asking more than is possible? I am just hoping for a master grumblr to say im an idiot and heres how you float a raw edged silk the right way with no ripples! lol thanks again

 

[auntiesarahjayne]

I have to say, Edie was reading my mind. Sewing to muslin was my thought for getting the best results with your silk.
That is the way I would have treated the artwork if it came into my shop.

Any kind of glue/ tape on the silk is going to cause some type of rippling effect.

Good luck,

Sarah

 

[Rodneyk]

Thank you only I do have successful and safe mounting techniques and have mounted tons of different types of fabrics. Only this particular design/customer combo is possibly asking more than is possible? I am just hoping for a master grumblr to say im an idiot and heres how you float a raw edged silk the right way with no ripples! lol thanks again

p.s. One more tidbit, the one in the picture was done by myself a few months back (without the back piece pressed in) and the artist came back with 5 more to do. She is perfectly happy only she asked if I would be able to eliminate the very small amount of ripples left. I told her Ill see what I can do, so thats the main reason I thought I'd give the forum a shot. :smiley:

 

[Puppyraiser]

First of all, DO NOT use 'acid-free' (it ain't acid that would do harm) ATG tape to affix the edges. The ATG will bleed though the fabric over time, and then you will have a REAL mess on your hands.

I would use the power of static cling in the plexi to hold it in place. If it ends up with wrinkles, then que sera sera.

There is less likelihood that there will be wrinkles if it hasn't been hemmed. Hemming will guarantee puckers all around the edge.

Remember Vivian's Dictum (which is the Prime Directive for Framers): We are framers; we are not magicians.

 

[Rodneyk]

Really?

First of all, DO NOT use 'acid-free' (it ain't acid that would do harm) ATG tape to affix the edges. The ATG will bleed though the fabric over time, and then you will have a REAL mess on your hands.

I would use the power of static cling in the plexi to hold it in place. If it ends up with wrinkles, then que sera sera.

There is less likelihood that there will be wrinkles if it hasn't been hemmed. Hemming will guarantee puckers all around the edge.

Remember Vivian's Dictum (which is the Prime Directive for Framers): We are framers; we are not magicians.

lol wow thank you, i like that idea better anyway but cant believe larson rep said use the tape thats why I came here before continuing with the job!

Rodney

 

[Jim Miller]

...So i called some suppliers to get some mounting advice and the safest and most non damaging technique came down to acid free atg around the entire outer edge.

Use no adhesive in direct contact with the silk. All sorts of adhesives would penetrate the fibers of the fabric, permanently changing its condition, and the residue would be extremely difficult or impossible to remove in the future. ATG is a particularly bad adhesive, because it migrates, and since it has no carrier, it has no bonding strength under gravitational stress. In other words, the ATG bond would surely fail, in addition to ruining the silk artwork.

A Direct Contact Overlay using acrylic, 97% or better UV-filtering and abrasion-resistance treated, at least, would be my choice to mount the silk. Acrylite OP3-AR acrylic 3/16" thick would be suitable, but Museum Optium Acrylic 6 mm thick would be the best choice for presentation as well as preservation.

Use a very rigid backing board, such as 3 mm or 4 mm aluminum composite material (DiBond, ePanel). place several layers of traditional needle-punched polyester quilt batting on it, and cover it using a conservation-grade fabric for the background. Fit the frame with sufficient pressure to compress the batting, pressing the background fabric & silk tight against the inside of the acrylic.

This type of mount could maintain enough pressure to keep the silk absolutely flat for the long term. It would be more protective, more supportive, totally reversible, and less invasive than most other framing methods.

Be sure to caution your customer to keep this frame away from rapid or radical changes of temperature or humidity, which could trigger dew point conditions and create condensation inside the frame. Also, this frame should be kept in the dark as much as possible, since silk is more vulnerable than most other art materials, to damage from light.

 

[Rodneyk]

Use no adhesive in direct contact with the silk. All sorts of adhesives would penetrate the fibers of the fabric, permanently changing its condition, and the residue would be extremely difficult or impossible to remove in the future. ATG is a particularly bad adhesive, because it migrates, and since it has no carrier, it has no bonding strength under gravitational stress. In other words, the ATG bond would surely fail, in addition to ruining the silk artwork.

A Direct Contact Overlay using acrylic, 97% or better UV-filtering and abrasion-resistance treated, at least, would be my choice to mount the silk. Acrylite OP3-AR acrylic 3/16" thick would be suitable, but Museum Optium Acrylic 6 mm thick would be the best choice for presentation as well as preservation.

Use a very rigid backing board, such as 3 mm or 4 mm aluminum composite material (DiBond, ePanel). place several layers of traditional needle-punched polyester quilt batting on it, and cover it using a conservation-grade fabric for the background. Fit the frame with sufficient pressure to compress the batting, pressing the background fabric & silk tight against the inside of the acrylic.

This type of mount could maintain enough pressure to keep the silk absolutely flat for the long term. It would be more protective, more supportive, totally reversible, and less invasive than most other framing methods.

Be sure to caution your customer to keep this frame away from rapid or radical changes of temperature or humidity, which could trigger dew point conditions and create condensation inside the frame. Also, this frame should be kept in the dark as much as possible, since silk is more vulnerable than most other art materials, to damage from light.

Thank you Jim Miller, your reply was exactly the type of information I needed. I appreciate the fact that you explained what ive done wrong and also how to correct this with name brands... Keep up the good work my man!

Rodney