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Thread: Larson Juhl no longer a Crescent distributor...?

  1. #121
    SPFG Supreme Picture Framer God Ylva's Avatar
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    Thank you for a great post Paul. I completely agree.

  2. #122
    True Grumbler SkyKing's Avatar
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    Default Crescent Distribution

    You are correct - Crescent will no longer keep LJ as a distributor. Looks like you are in Canada. Omega and Folkgraphis are the only two main distributors of Crescent in Canada. I found out that Omega will be stocking the full line of Crescent boards. Someone should be contacting you soon.

  3. #123
    True Grumbler SkyKing's Avatar
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    Default Crescent Distribution

    LJ is not moving away from the matboard business and they have promoted Artique for years to the framers as well as highlighted in on their website. The LJ website never did at any time show or identify Crescent or Bainbridge. Artique is a LJ product and will be promoted more by LJ now that Crescent is no longer a supplier to them. Crescent is in the matboard business and have been for over 100 years. The boards are made in the U.S. and will continue to be. I have always enjoyed the vast selection of CC product as well as the companies ability to move forward with exciting colors and finishes. Hats off to Crescent.

  4. #124
    True Grumbler SkyKing's Avatar
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    Default Crescent Distribution

    Just caught wind that Crescent will be supplied to Omega for Canada in Toronto as of March 1. Looks like they will be stocking the full line.

  5. #125
    SGF Supreme Grumble Framer tedh's Avatar
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    Not a big help for us in Ottawa and eastern Ontario. Crescent was supplied by a big Ottawa distributor, and by another, closer to Toronto. We now have to set up new accounts with Omega, and pay shipping, where previously shipping had been included, and delivery was to the door, or we could pick up locally. Those days are gone, and we're all thinking twice about selling Crescent. Neither of the locals will be carrying it.
    My hovercraft is full of anguish.

  6. #126
    True Grumbler SkyKing's Avatar
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    Default Crescent

    If I am not mistaken, Omega has a shipping program from Toronto to Ottawa. I know that since they will be carrying the full line of Crescent out of Toronto, they are setting up shipping programs. Have you contacted Telco in Manotik, Ontario.? He may be carrying Crescent as a Sub Distributor.


    Quote Originally Posted by tedh View Post
    Not a big help for us in Ottawa and eastern Ontario. Crescent was supplied by a big Ottawa distributor, and by another, closer to Toronto. We now have to set up new accounts with Omega, and pay shipping, where previously shipping had been included, and delivery was to the door, or we could pick up locally. Those days are gone, and we're all thinking twice about selling Crescent. Neither of the locals will be carrying it.

  7. #127
    SGF Supreme Grumble Framer tedh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkyKing View Post
    If I am not mistaken, Omega has a shipping program from Toronto to Ottawa. I know that since they will be carrying the full line of Crescent out of Toronto, they are setting up shipping programs. Have you contacted Telco in Manotik, Ontario.? He may be carrying Crescent as a Sub Distributor.


    I'll contact Omega in Toronto. Telco is a competitor, and I don't deal with competitors. I don't want them knowing my business.

    And I had an unpleasant dealing with the guy long ago, so I've written him off.

    If I don't hit it off well with Omega, then Crescent gets the axe. Larson has been very good to me. Regardless of what happened between them and Crescent, my loyalties are with LJ. Omega has a hill to climb in Ottawa.
    My hovercraft is full of anguish.

  8. #128
    True Grumbler SkyKing's Avatar
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    Default Crescent Distribution

    The real issue at hand here is not so much of LJ loosing the Crescent Line, but more so the reputation of the existing U.S. Distributors already carrying Crescent throughout the U.S. from Florida, to California to New York and Washington State. They mostly all carry the full line! These reputable dealers have been loyal to Crescent for many years and as such have secured great relationships with plenty of support from Crescent. Also, the situation in Canada now allows Omega Canada and Folkgraphis to carry the line. Omega Canada in fact does now carry the complete full line of Crescent Framing matboards.

  9. #129
    SPFG Supreme Picture Framer God Ylva's Avatar
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    Ummmm...so what is the issue according to you then?

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    My loyalties are with LJ as well.
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  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ylva View Post
    Ummmm...so what is the issue according to you then?
    I'm pretty sure Skyking (Michael is it?) was with Fotiou and is now still somewhere in the industry. So the issue here, if I am correct, is the same issue that Paul C and I said was a problem. The issue of disclosure. Michael, sorry if I am wrong, but if I am right you might be knocking LJ a bit much considering you have something to gain here. Do you work for a competing vendor?

    Anyone else think this might be an issue?
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  12. #132
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    Default The question is why?

    Why would Crescent cut off one of their main distributors? Could it be that Larson-Juhl as asking for too much in return for their business? Lets face it-- Larson had purchased moulding distributors in the past only to get the distribution area and then remove the product line from the market. I'm not saying they were after the Crescent brand to remove a matboard source, but Larson does have a matboard company. I understand that inventory costs money, but the distribtors caused their own problem by starting chop service and selling sheets of matboard instead of boxes and moulding bundles.

    Every week we get lists of discontued products-- our problem is that many of these are only being discontued by that one company--not the manufactor. If Larson felt the Crescent line was too large for them to carry-- then they should have said "We (Larson) don't carry the full line, hence we (Larson) are not a "full line distributor" for Crescent."

    As I said--"why would Crescent not want to sell their matboards?" --- We may never learn the full story, but as a custom picture framer for 45 years, I would never stop selling my products to customers. The only customers we have ever stopped selling to were those who wouldn't pay the price or didn't pay us for past services. Again I'm not saying that Larson would not pay for products received, but maybe they wouldn't pay the same price as other distribtors or they (Larson) asked for special programs.

    We will still support Crescent with our purchases from other vendors in our market and purchase Larson moulding, the only difference is the Larson will only get weekly orders instead of twice weekly. We carry five lines of matboards, so we are never able to get them from one distribtor, so changing our purchase program is easy.

  13. #133
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    "Why would Crescent cut off one of their main distributors? Could it be that Larson-Juhl as asking for too much in return for their business? Lets face it-- Larson had purchased moulding distributors in the past only to get the distribution area and then remove the product line from the market"

    Our shop received a letter from both Crescent and LJ. The Crescent letter said they resigned LJ because LJ wanted them to reduce the number of matboards they make and the LJ letter said Crescent was selling to other customers [I assume they meant BB's] at much lower prices and LJ just wanted the same price since they were Crescent's biggest customer. We have been a loyal LJ shop for years and we tend to believe their letter. It just sounded more honest. Will we ever know the real story? Probably not.

    Sorry but I did not know how to put Bill Ross's quote in a box.

  14. #134
    SGF Supreme Grumble Framer John Ranes II, CPF, GCF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornered One
    ...Sorry but I did not know how to put Bill Ross's quote in a box.
    See the little link on the lower right Reply With Quote After it pulls up the whole quote...delete the part that is extraneous and leave the important bit that you wish to see.

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  15. #135
    SPFG Supreme Picture Framer God Ylva's Avatar
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    I will continue to do business with both, but I think this decision will hurt both LJ and Crescent. We will never learn the full story of the hows and whys and whats, nor do we need to.

    As for Skyking; I simply didn't understand your post, even after reading it a few times, it is unclear to me what you are trying to say.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Ranes II, CPF, GCF View Post
    See the little link on the lower right Reply With Quote After it pulls up the whole quote...delete the part that is extraneous and leave the important bit that you wish to see.

    JER
    Thanks John it looks like I have learned something

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Ross View Post
    Every week we get lists of discontued products-- our problem is that many of these are only being discontued by that one company--not the manufactor. If Larson felt the Crescent line was too large for them to carry-- then they should have said "We (Larson) don't carry the full line, hence we (Larson) are not a "full line distributor" for Crescent."
    Once you are a "Full Line" distributor, it is hard to go back to being less.

    One of the problems that arises is when the Mfg..... says that you must buy so much
    of all SKUs... even though a certain percent are dogs, they point to your "Full Line"
    and just send them.

    Now, in these times I can see the possibilities of a certain scenario arising with the
    new top dog at Larson, being a bean counter.
    I don't have any inside info, but I can guess that LJ, looked at the sales numbers,
    and the HUGE tons of matboard SKUs that sold less than 100 sheets in the last year
    nation-wide.... and said... discontinue 20% of you line (the usual under-performing %
    in almost any line).... or we will.

    There also seemed to be a certain discount level that LJ didn't think was right,
    and with the two.... you have a divorce.

    This happens from the bottom up.... every single day in this industry. You do it in your
    shop on your wall. Even stores that display nothing but a single moulding mfg.... don't
    carry the "Full Line".

  18. #138
    SPFG Supreme Picture Framer God Baer Charlton's Avatar
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    As another thought..... especially if you listen to Skyking wax
    romantic about a large supply chain from Florida to California.....

    Why is it still impossible to get a replacement set of corners?

    "Well, that is just the right shade . . but I worry that the smudgey
    like print pattern might be a little distracting..."

    "Oh, those are just finger prints and coffee stains... they won't be
    on your new mat. (Hopefully....)"

  19. #139
    SGF Supreme Grumble Framer Joe B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ylva View Post
    I will continue to do business with both, but I think this decision will hurt both LJ and Crescent. We will never learn the full story of the hows and whys and whats, nor do we need to.
    Ylva, I agree, I will continue to do business with both. I've set back and just watched this thread. I guess I cannot really understand why anybody has a concern if LJ discontiued Crescent or if Crescent discontinued LJ. Crescent is carried by just about every distributor in the business so I don't see it as harmful to either company or to us as framers. If I want Crescent I go to TC Moulding or Superior Moulding or Omega Moulding...if I want Artique I go to LJ. I see it as a battle between those 2 that is really none of my business and in no way what so ever harmful to my business. Will I purchase less from LJ because they don't carry Crescent...NO! Will I purchase less Crescent because they don't supply to LJ...NO!

    That's business, they have a disagreement that doesn't effect my busines so why should I get upset with either. Let them battle it out, it is between them and none of my business. If they were my only suppliers then I may be concerned but that isn't the case. I'm just not going to stick my nose into their business. Sorry but that is my $0.02 - I can't get my dander up over this minuscule change.
    Last edited by Lance E; March 5th, 2013 at 02:31 PM.
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  20. #140
    True Grumbler TSF's Avatar
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    Just checked the Crescent website and they are now listing Omega as their distributor for Canada and Folkgraphis in Western Canada. Put in a call to Omega in Toronto and they say stock just came in and they should be ready to fill orders by next week.
    Eric Fair, TSF
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  21. #141
    SGF Supreme Grumble Framer GUMBY, GCF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe B View Post
    Ylva, I agree, I will continue to do business with both. I've set back and just watched this thread. I guess I cannot really understand why anybody has a concern if LJ discontiued Crescent or if Crescent discontinued LJ. Crescent is carried by just about every distributor in the business so I don't see it as harmful to either company or to us as framers. If I want Crescent I go to TC Moulding or Superior Moulding or Omega Moulding...if I want Artique I go to LJ. I see it as a battle between those 2 that is really none of my business and in no way what so ever harmful to my business. Will I purchase less from LJ because they don't carry Crescent...NO! Will I purchase less Crescent because they don't supply to LJ...NO!

    That's business, they have a disagreement that doesn't effect my busines so why should I get upset with either. Let them battle it out, it is between them and none of my business. If they were my only suppliers then I may be concerned but that isn't the case. I'm just not going to stick my nose into their business. Sorry but that is my $0.02 - I can't get my dander up over this minuscule change.
    I agree 100% I want them both to prosper.....

  22. #142
    SGF Supreme Grumble Framer tedh's Avatar
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    Default Buy/Sell Recommendation

    I would buy Neilsen Bainbridge, and dump Crescent.

    Why?

    Look at the date of the first post of this thread: February 8. I have just gone through a purge of all my Crescent corner samples: they're being stashed until further notice.

    So far, no contact from any Crescent distributors. I'm going to see how long I can go until I need a Crescent mat. I may be able to get by quite well, selling Bainbridge, Peterboro and Artique. Existing Crescent stock will be framed up with gallery subjects, or used as substitutions.

    So who needs whom? Do I need Crescent, or does Crescent need me? If I can do without them, my inventory carrying costs will drop by quite a bit. I stopped selling the 1500, 1600 and 1700 series long ago because of the burring issue. Crescent Selects are being replaced by Bainbridge Basics. Peterboro suedes are cheaper than Moormans.

    How many other small frame shops are thinking along these lines: having to set up new accounts with new suppliers, shipping issues, quality issues. No approach yet from existing Crescent suppliers, too.

    So that brings me to one of two conclusions: either Crescent has a death wish, or they have very bad management. Who would do business with them under these circumstances?
    My hovercraft is full of anguish.

  23. #143
    MGF Master Grumble Framer Julie Walsh's Avatar
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    Did you consider that Crescent wouldn't/couldn't/shouldn't have your business information to 'hand over' to Omega? It may fall under the privacy act that would not allow LJ to provide that information. This differs from the hand over of information when Frame Guild left Canada a few years ago.

    Why don't you just contact Omega directly instead of waiting for a call?
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  24. #144
    SGF Supreme Grumble Framer tedh's Avatar
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    Julie: I'm not being a dog in a manger - this is about

    - the trouble of having to set up new accounts,
    - problems with cutting Crescents,
    - warped mats,
    - talking to a dis-interested Crescent vice-president years ago when the mat-cutting issue was hot, and
    - shipping from Toronto to Ottawa in light of all the other shipping issues.

    I may return to Crescent in the future. Years ago I was a really big fan, and I still love their colours, but in view of the above, I'm going to see if I can live without them, and uncomplicate things a bit.

    I don't expect Larson to help Omega gain customers at their own expense. I would have expected Crescent suppliers to get out and hustle up new accounts. I would have expected Crescent to get out and sell to the customers they're losing. None of this happened, indicating a continuation of weak management at Crescent.

    What did happen? Coincidentally Bainbridge issued Basics. Now there's a stroke of luck! Bainbridge also held a good session at Wallacks Wholesale three weeks ago, building bridges. Larson's Montreal general manager has been here twice this year, and has maintained excellent communications with us. Crescent has not earned any loyalty. Not one bit.
    My hovercraft is full of anguish.

  25. #145
    SPFG Supreme Picture Framer God Jeff Rodier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedh View Post
    I don't expect Larson to help Omega gain customers at their own expense. I would have expected Crescent suppliers to get out and hustle up new accounts. I would have expected Crescent to get out and sell to the customers they're losing. None of this happened, indicating a continuation of weak management at Crescent.
    There is a very good chance that contractual agreements would prevent this until the LJ deal winds down. You can bet there will be some reps from suppliers and possibly Crescent coming in as soon as they have a solid plan of how to deal with your region. The Bainbridge Basics could be a portion of this entire decision to drop LJ.
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  26. #146
    SGF Supreme Grumble Framer tedh's Avatar
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    That could be the case, and I hope it is. I'd like to see Crescent turn around its reputation, and this could be a very good first step.
    My hovercraft is full of anguish.

  27. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedh View Post
    ... I'm going to see if I can live without them, and uncomplicate things a bit.
    You know one of the best matboard makers in North America is right there in Ontario, don't you?

  28. #148
    SGF Supreme Grumble Framer tedh's Avatar
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    We use a good amount of Peterboro. Very high quality, good colors. One problem, though: my local distributor will not special order suedes - they want at least 5 sheets, so guess what? I have to use a Toronto distributor, who walks on water.

    I've recently noticed specks on Bainbridge whites, under the top sheet. Never on PB.
    My hovercraft is full of anguish.

  29. #149
    MGF Master Grumble Framer Keith L Hewitt's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=tedh;887011
    I've recently noticed specks on Bainbridge whites, under the top sheet. Never on PB.[/QUOTE]

    Can you be more specific please? Are you saying the specs are in the top layer of the core board, or in the adhesive?
    I have visited framers in 83 countries. No 2 are the same

  30. #150
    SGF Supreme Grumble Framer tedh's Avatar
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    Very small black specks under the top layer of paper. I dig them out carefully with a ten-power loupe, and repair the excavation with various instruments. I try to scan where I think the mat borders will be before the Wizard cuts the mat, but some times I miss them.

    Murphy's Law: the speck will be in the bevel or v-groove. That's when I get ticked.
    My hovercraft is full of anguish.

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