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What wire sytem do you use

Discussion in 'The Grumble' started by Frame Lady, Mar 18, 2006.

  1. Frame Lady

    Frame Lady CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    My sevalon wire problem is not over so I am marching on. The owner of Sevenstrand did call me today and is sending me samples of other items.

    But I am curious as to what other people use to wire the finished product. And please, while I am thoroughly aware of wall buddies, there is no need to praise their worthiness, again!.

    I look forward to hearing from you all.

    Lynn
     
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  2. Val

    Val PFG, Picture Framing God

    25 years ago I started my first shop with the Sevalon system. Victor rep talked me into it.I thought it was great. Customers were impressed (for those who don't think they look on the back!), but it's expensive.
    Plastic-coated wire is slippery. Give it a tug when you're finished wrapping it. Sometimes it slips all the way out, no matter how I wrap it. Maybe I'm "old-fashioned" but I don't trust it. and it's expensive.
    I'm back to braided wire. I trust it. Band-aids are part of my daily dress anyway, but really, I rarely get poked anymore. And it isn't expensive.
    Sorry, I haven't yet tried WallBuddies, so I can't compare.
     
  3. danny boy

    danny boy PFG, Picture Framing God

    I have had such good luck with soft- strand. Even my hands prefer it to other braided plastic coated wire. Why, it even knots and looks better with little ease as compared to the others I have tried. Have not tried the Sevalon system, looks expensive, but than again so is soft- strand. I always have my eyes and ears open to new framing technology, and will continue to watch, and read.

    :cool: :cool: :cool:
     
  4. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    When WallBuddies are not the best choice (rarely), I use SoftStrand stainless steel wire and Infinity hangers.

    Now that Infinity hangers are no longer being made, when I run out of them I will use Jay's DITH (Directly-In-The-Hole) wiring method.

    Similar to the procedure suggested in the original thread, here's what I've worked out:

    1. Drill a hole as long as the screw, slightly smaller diameter as usual.

    2. Poke the end of the wire all the way to the bottom of the hole.

    3. Put a small washer on the screw of choice, and start it into the hole about half-way.

    4. Wrap the wire around the screw under the washer, ending with the wire pointing in its proper direction; two full wraps should be sufficient.

    5. Drive the screw until it is tight.

    6. Repeat on other side.

    7. Provide two "courtesy wall hooks" with each frame and caution the customer to place them in the wall X" apart, so the wire departs each side of the frame at an angle of at least 60 degrees. I plan to print 2"x4" labels (standard Avery shipping labels) with instructions and a drawing of the wire.

    The original thread's discussion included concerns about the wire being cut by the screw, but from my own non-scientific tests, it appears that the stainless steel wire is harder than the screw. The wire deforms to the contours of the screw's threads and pushes into the wood, but none of the strands have fractured.

    Another concern was that the wire could pull out. Nope, not a chance. After wrapping around the washer & driving the screw tight, the wire is more secure than most tied wire-ends I've seen. And the part of the wire anchored in the hole seems to have no stress on it at all.

    My tests were started the week of the original discussion and are still under tension, but so far, all indications are very good.

    In an effort to create a worst-case scenario, I used #2 SoftStrand wire and a #4 x 3/8" screw in extruded polystyrene moulding, with no washer & no wraps around the screw -- the wire just runs right out of the hole under the screw's head. In that way, I placed two wire ends/screws about 1/2" apart in the same cut of moulding. The assembly has been under ten pounds of direct tension for months. No deterioration of the wire is evident, nor is the moulding's hole elongating.

    I'm wondering why nobody thought of this before.
     
  5. Jay H

    Jay H PFG, Picture Framing God

    Please specify which "Jay" you're referring to. I'm probably the most active “Jay” here and I don't want anybody attaching my name to this method as I DON'T think it’s appropriate.
     
  6. FramingFool

    FramingFool In Corner

    It's not the FramingFool way, either.

    I'll take small mirror hangers and SoftStrand any day.

    And instead of soaking the customer for WallBuddies, on large pieces, we use 2 or 3 hole D-rings without wire, with instructions to (or an offer from us to) hang it.
     
  7. ahohen

    ahohen In Corner

    Jim:
    I mentioned this idea a several days ago and i have made a little change to make it even stronger. After the screw in inserted in the hole made my the screw, before driving the screw all the way in, simply make a "loop" (almost like a half knot) around the screw, and THEN drive the screw all the way in... with too much tension, either the wire will break OR the screw will break or will be pulled out of the frame(oh, I use only regular panhead screws with NO washer(s)!

    http://www.thegrumble.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=010122;p=1

    (Oh, by the way Frank L... the 1/4" mirror is still hanging... the same customer came in to get another mirror framed, but this one is about half the size, so i used smaller wire................)ajh
     
  8. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    That method scares me!

    I think of all the old frames that are brought in with the screws eyes almost pulled out and think how dangerous and flimsy this method sounds.

    It also makes me think of the customer concocted wire systems I have seen, the most prominent being the wire wrapped around a staple, tacked in "tight", then (in some cases) three or more additional staples added supposedly to add strength. This staple method is usually performed with the arrow T-50 staples, but as often as not it will be performed with regular Swingline desk staples.

    Jamming a wire into a screw hole doesn't seem like the most secure, long term method. Feels as secure as laying a bead of hot glue or two part epoxy and plopping the wire into it. Or maybe you could "reinforce" the wire in hole method by adding the hot glue?

    Now that I have alienated you all, I use, in order of preference: d-rings, screw eyes, easel backs and lastly the saw tooth hammer in style hanger (on request).
     
  9. ahohen

    ahohen In Corner

    Bob D: Simple. Try it. Test it. If doubtful about the idea, put it through the test...frame something and hang it on a wall for a few years to be absolutely sure... lol.
     
  10. Jay H

    Jay H PFG, Picture Framing God

    My grandmother passed last week. We were taking down her pictures (she had hundreds). Many of them were hung with twine as wire and attached with shipping tape to the back of the frame. I would estimate they had been hanging for most of my life - 29 years. I wouldn't recommend that method either.
     
  11. Steph

    Steph SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Sorry to hear about your grandmother Jay
     
  12. Cliff Wilson

    Cliff Wilson SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I use soft strand on metals and the "Acorn Art" hanging system for wood. (United carries it.) Kevlar cord with plastic "knot holders" that are screwed to the back of the frame.
     
  13. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Sorry, no.

    Too many tested methods to use. As a kid their was a mechanic in my hometown that specialized in cob-job mechanics. Fritzy specialized in "untested" repairs. Basically the repair got you out of the shop and lasted long enough to pass an inspection. Never longer.

    And when you could finally afford to pay for getting the job done right you never went back to Fritzy.

    I don't think the money I save not using a d-ring will adequately compensate me for the reputation I would lose cob-jobbing a framing packet! Also I don't want to specialize in the $5 repair, I want the gold plated gilded corner orders!

    But I will send the $5 jobs your way [​IMG] !

    Sorry for being snotty, but a temporary fix shouldn't become a permanent business method. Now I know in three years time I will probably be eating my words, as this method may become standard operating procedure. (Like using UV Glass instead of regular) But I will hold out!
     
  14. wpfay

    wpfay Angry Badger

    Lynn, to answer your question, I use Super Soft Strand wire.
     
  15. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Cliff do you like that Kevlar cord? Dave Campion showed it to me, and he seemed sold on it.

    But then again he sold me on the ProSpray System, and the AttachEZ! Now he is working me on the <strike>Valiani</strike> Fletcher CMC. I think I need to change the bulb on the flashing neon light on my forehead! Or at least unplug it once in a while.
     
  16. Bill Henry-

    Bill Henry- SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Looks like I’m the only one left still fitting frames with braided picture wire and screw eyes.
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Rogatory

    Rogatory SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Popular methods I see a lot from customers are shoelaces, fishing line and coat hanger wire. [​IMG]
     
  18. Cliff Wilson

    Cliff Wilson SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Yes Bob, I like it a lot. Faster, easy, just as strong, all black so it looks good.
     
  19. Twin2

    Twin2 SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I use Super Softstrand wire with various size hinge hangers depending on the size of the frame. If it is a large shadow box, I'll use Wallbuddies. When I first started framing, I used the braided picture frame wire with screw eyes. But, I found the screw eyes stuck out too far at the back of the frame and I liked the flat look of the hinge hangers better.
     
  20. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Humble apologies, Jay. I guess it was Ahohen that suggested the method.
     
  21. Val

    Val PFG, Picture Framing God

    No you're not Bill, looks like you and me, except I don't use screw eyes much anymore, got tired of them breaking off in hardwoods. I still use braided wire (see the first post after Frame Lady's initial one) but with d-rings or super hangers. After reading everyone's responses, I may check out the Softstrand stuff, as my hands aren't as tough as they used to be. With braided wire, I always tape the ends after wrapping to protect the customer when they're hanging.
     
  22. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I wouldn't call your comments snotty, Bob, just short-sighted.

    Screw eyes are among the most "tested methods" in framing, having been commonly used for such a long time. But screw eyes are stressful, because the devices elevate the wire off the frame. Bob said "I think of all the old frames that are brought in with the screws eyes almost pulled out and think how dangerous and flimsy this method sounds." You don't see any difference?

    A screw eye's elevation amounts to a lever, which amplifies the side-stress on the hole and increases the likelhood of splitting the grain around the hole. To demonstrate the physics involved:

    1. Drill a hole as usual in the back of a frame, about 1/2" deep.

    2. Drop a 1" long nail into it, and push toward the rabbet, in the direction the wire would pull. Unless the hole is very close to the rabbet's edge, you probably can't split the grain by pushing sideways on the nail.

    3. Now remove the nail and drop a 6" long awl into the same hole. Repeat the pushing motion and watch how easily that 6" long tool acts as a lever and splits the grain of the wood around the hole.

    The bigger the screw-eye, the taller it stands off the frame, and the more stress it places on the hole. Far fewer grain-splitting problems result from using a flat-to-the-surface device, such as Infinity Hangers, SuperSteel, or plain old D-rings. Ahohen's DITH method is in the flat-to-the-surface category.

    So far, I have not yet used the DITH method on any customer's framing, and probably will not for some time. I'm still testing it, but I'm finding that it is probably a good way to install a wire on a frame.

    In any case, WallBuddies are still my shop's standard hanging hardware fro all the reasons we've discussed so many times before.

    Like everything else, the DITH wiring method has limitations. For example, it is still a wire system, and most consumers will hang a wired frame from one wall hook, no matter how we beg them to hang it properly from two hooks. Refer to the undisputed advantages of the FACTS standard for installing a wire with an angle of at least 60 degrees, and realize that most framers aren't wiring their frames properly in the first place.

    The DITH wiring method should not be used with aluminum wire, because it might fatique and break off in the hole, under the point-stress of this method. I would use only stainless steel wire; the more strands, the better.

    Also, it is very important to drill a proper hole, which we ought to be doing, anyway. That is, make it at least as deep as the screw's length, and make sure the tool cuts the wood cleanly, and does not just split the grain. That's because the hole must accommodate not only the screw, but the wire as well.

    It seems short-sighted to condemn any new hanging system out-of-hand by comparing it to stapling the wire, or Fritzy's temporary cob-job.

    The point is, nobody will know whether this method is good, bad, or indifferent until it is thoroughly tested. The jury is still out, but I have yet to hear anyone explain a real problem with it, done right. On the other hand, we have heard about plenty of imagined problems, which have not materialized in my tests, despite my efforts to make them happen.

    If you can point out a real problem with the DITH method as I've described it above, please share it.
     
  23. Jay H

    Jay H PFG, Picture Framing God

    Here's one. You're compromising the integrity of the wire. You claim it isn't cut but admit that it's mashed. Then you wrap the wire around the screw and again you mash it to the frame.

    Do the threads cut the wire when you're screwing into various wood types? Did the wire stay in place during when the screw was driven? Is the inner edge of the washer cutting into the wire? Did a bur on the screw totally cut the wire just at the opening?

    The answer is that you don't know because the whole thing is hidden in a hole or mashed under a washer.

    Properly wrapped wire cannot have its integrity compromised by tying a knot in it. That causes a weak spot in the wire at the knot. Now with this method I would add that a properly installed wire can’t be mashed either. Because wire ratings are for undammaged wire, how much does the mashing derate the wire?

    It’s very obvious that I have given this much consideration. There is one hurdle that I'm having a hard time over looking. How is this any better looking, priced, or more functional that a good old fashioned d-ring?

    I’m sure this method will hold pictures. I could imagine the failure rate would be rather low. I have no strong opposition to it. But I don’t see how it’s any better at all and with the added problem of damaging the wire and hiding it, I don’t see it as a “professional” method.

    You want to talk about splitting a grain. Start cramming stuff into a predrilled hole and shooting a screw in behind it.

    Perhaps the old standard "pro" and "con" list in in order here.
     
  24. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    As to wire I use SoftStrand. When I read the pregnant woman warning on the braided wire I figured it probably wasn't all that good for me either!.

    I like the stainless steel over the soft braided wire as I feel it won't stretch as mush as the softer braided wire does. I don't like the crimping methods or the coated wire. Just don't like them! I don't like heat shrink tubing over wire ends as I know I will forget to put the tubing on, then have to redo teh wire wrapping.

    I wasted enough time typing on the jam it in and screw it method. [​IMG]

    To each their own.

    BTW Jim I enjoy reading your ideas and comments most of the time, I just disagree on this method!
     
  25. FramingFool

    FramingFool In Corner

    What does one do if one needs to readjust the wire length with the jam-it-in-the-screw-hole thing?


    (Fact Of Life #376: All Wire Stretches)


    (Except coat-hanger wire and Wall Buddies, which I don't wanna hear word-one about .... gotta long way to go to talk me into that)

    (I'm still pi**ed off, ya see...)
     
  26. trapper

    trapper Guest

    Theres the right way..the wrong way, and my way :)
    Oh yeah then theres granpa's way...like it was said 29 years later it was still hanging.! I wouldn;t complain 29 years later..would you?
    Be lucky if you could even find the place you had the work done it let alone remember where you had it done at..! I am not saying I or you should do work that has a set time limit on it. Just saying that if it lasts that long in these days I would say that's pretty darn good. And what the heck..she p[aid all of what for it?
     
  27. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Originally posted by Jay H:
    The integrity of the wire is not compromised any more than it would be if it were tightly tied and wrapped, as described in most framing books. Come to think of it, is there any way to terminate a wire's ends that does not compromise its integrity in some way?

    No cutting of strands. It seems that the stainless steel wire is harder than the screw. The twisted wire is somewhat flattened, but not as much as you seem to think.

    Yes. When the screw is started, the wire bites into the sides of the hole. Especially in soft woods, the impression of the wire may be easily seen in the hole.

    No. The inner edge of the washer is on the collar of the screw, not in contact with the wire, which runs under the washer and out the side. There's very little, if any, contact of the wire on the washer's edges. And, by the way, small, cheap nylon washers might work as well as metal in this application.

    Burr on the screw? I don't use defective screws, I throw them away. If a burr were large enough to cause a problem, it would be easily seen.

    Yes, I do. I have taken the screws out of the holes several times. And when I put them back together, I place them in a different spot & re-wrap them, so if the holes tended to elongate, it would be more obvious, and if the wires tended to weaken by wrapping, it would happen sooner, especially under 10 lbs. of hanging weight. It's a primitive sort of accelerated life test.

    I don't know how much the wire's strength would be "derated" by insertion in the hole and wrapping. But I say confidently that this assembly is less destructive to the wire than crimping a sleeve on it. And when I have taken apart typically-tied wire ends from Super Steel hangers, the spots on the wire where it loops the hanger are much more deformed.

    1. Absolutely flat on the back of the frame.
    2. Lower cost for hardware.
    3. *Lower cost for labor, since there's no tying of the wire ends.

    *This is the attribute of WallBuddies that makse them more cost-effective than any tied-wire hanging system. At my shop's labor rate of $60 per hour, saving 1 to 1-1/2 minutes with WallBuddies MORE than pays for their extra cost.

    If you care to make a brief time study, as I did, you might find that the time saving is consistent.
     
  28. Jay H

    Jay H PFG, Picture Framing God

    I totally agree with you on the crimped wire for the same reasons I listed earlier. The wire is damaged rather you mash it in a collar or under a screw. Its also hidden rather its in a collar stuffed under a washer.
     
  29. Dave

    Dave SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I still prefer braided picture wire, but have switched to superhangers instead of screweyes unless the piece is light weight and the frame is a hardwood.

    The disadvantage of crimping systems is that the length is not adjustable. I have the capability to use a crimped sytem, but customers don't like it as they cannot adjust the wire. I use the crimped system to replace the wire on my wall hung cutting systems...seldom for anything else.

    Of course, WallBuddies are always available and the preferred hanging system for larger pieces, mirrors and the like.

    Dave Makielski
     
  30. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Crimping a sleeve deforms the wire a lot more than the DITH wiring method I described. Tightening the washered screw down on the wire makes an impression in the wood, but it barely deforms the wire. Of course, it presses more into basswood and obeche than it does oak or ash.

    The washer's flat, relatively large surface area pushes the wire's profile into the wood more gently than you seem to think. Consider that in contrast with the crimped sleeve, which concentrates all of the stress on very small areas of the wire.

    I haven't found a way to prove it, but I think the wire's area that is pressed into the wood takes most of the stress of hanging. The part of wire anchored in the hole seems to be free of stress.

    Empty speculation of doom doesn't help much, but I'd still like to hear from anyone who has actually tried this method and succeeded in defeating it. It would be useful to define its real -- not imagined -- limitations.
     
  31. Jay H

    Jay H PFG, Picture Framing God

    Just to make sure I’m doing it right take a look at this.

    [​IMG]

    Does that look right?

    I drilled a hole, then crammed a stainless coated wire in the hole and then shot a screw in the hole. Once with a plastic washer and once with a metal one. Each is wrapped twice.

    I found that the plastic did hold the wire much better. The metal only holds the highest point of the wire and allows the rest to unwind. The plastic washer held much more of the wire and didn’t unwind easily.

    Unwinding will be a problem because when the wire rests (unhung) it can hang below the screw. When you grab the wire, it would come out from under the screw (unwinding). It could unwrap once every time its picked up or hung.

    It wasn’t any faster. The predrilling is critical. If the predrilled hole is too small the screw just drills a new hole next to the one with the wire and barely grabs the wire at all. I found the best size was to use the screw to predrill.

    When I removed the wires this is what I found.

    [​IMG]

    The coating was torn under both washers as well as from the thread of the screw. The washer didn’t apperar to cut the wire, just the coating. The wires were very scored from the screw and one thread was cut in two completely.

    In all fairness it looks a bit worse than maybe it is because of the loop and shredded coating.

    I drove two more without the loop, one with coating removed. The screw scored them both also.

    [​IMG]

    I do not think the wire is at all tougher than the screw.

    I didn’t find it faster or better than more traditional methods.

    Claim none of your wire looked like this. What am I doing wrong?

    SOrry for the blurry pics.

    Also I would add that the wire on the hanger isn't pictured. Other than some waves, the coating and wires were completely uncompromised.
     
  32. FramingFool

    FramingFool In Corner

    No further convincing necessary .... the mirror hangers are The Way.
     
  33. MarkyW

    MarkyW SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I use the Miracle Cord from United. It's black cord with a Kevlar center. All you do is tie a knot in the end and put it in the special 'holder' that is screwed into the frame. Easy on the fingers and quick to do. They even have a system called 'Adjust-it' which you put onto the cord that lets the customer adjust the length of the cord if they want to get the picture placed at just the right height. No need to pull the hanger out of the wall and try to nail it back in the wall 1/8" higher or lower or whatever.

    I like it.
     
  34. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Thanks for the photos, Jay. Now we're getting somewhere.

    The wire in my shop is SoftStrand stainless steel with seven strands (both #2 and #4), but it is not coated. I do not have any coated wire to test. How many strands of wire are under the coating? Do you know how the strength of that wire compares to the SoftStrand uncoated wire?

    I certainly would not use aluminum wire with the DITH method, and I'd be skeptical about coated wire, as well. If the wire's diameter -- under the coating -- is smaller or has fewer strands, then it would be weaker in any wiring configuration.

    The coating would surely be shredded, as your photos clearly show. The coating might also compromise the tightness. Jay, you said the wire un-wrapped itself when you applied a pulling force. My tests have not done that; in oak and an unknown but very soft wood, the wraps remain tight after more than a month of tension with ten pounds of weight. Could the unwrapping of your test wire be due to the coating?

    You said there is no time savings with the DITH wiring, compared to tying the wire on a D-ring. That seems odd. When two of us here played "Beat The Clock" in a quick time study of DITH vs. D-ring, both of us could install the DITH method completely in less time than it took to tie the wire. You're drilling a hole and tightening a screw in both cases, right?

    I'll try to post some photos, which so how the wire ends in my tests are deformed, but not cut. I'll try to show how the wire wrapped under the washer is pressed into the wood, too.
     
  35. Doug Gemmell

    Doug Gemmell SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Jim, so you're saving about 15 seconds per frame?
     
  36. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    The savings is more like 1-1/2 minutes on average.

    If you can properly and neatly tie two wire ends in 15 seconds, you are faster with your fingers than any framer I've met. [​IMG]
     
  37. Doug Gemmell

    Doug Gemmell SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Pleased to meet you Jim. [​IMG]
     
  38. Jay H

    Jay H PFG, Picture Framing God

    The pictures are #5 with 7 strands. It’s rated at 43#. Keep in mind the last picture has the coating stripped before using it. The strands are still cut and it was actually the uncoated that dropped a strand when I took it out of the hole. In fact the way the wire is wrapped there isn’t a single strand that wasn’t scored by the screw. With the mirror hanger, not a single strand or coating was damaged. Furthermore the piece of wire that holds the picture is NOT on the very tip of the wire.

    Yes its possible that the coating caused the metal washer to unravel. But you mean there is people using uncoated wire? Let’s add that to another problem with this system.

    With hangers I do not predrill except in very rare cases with specific woods. Probably 80% of the profiles get a screw shot right in the virgin wood. This is one of those things that might win me a one way trip to picture framers **** but I assure you, I will be in good company.

    It doesn't take me long to wrap a wire. I'm all about speeding up things whenever possible but I have never considered "as fast a absolutely possible" to be any real measure for anything – certainly not custom framing. We are now down to a fine hair don't you think? If I give you that it is slightly faster and cheaper, it isn’t significant enough to even measure. Even if so, it’s still not a good method for other reasons.
     
  39. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

  40. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Here are the real images...
    I like the clean, finished look; very flat on the frame, and no wire ends to worry about.

    These wires have been taken out of their holes and reinstalled four times. I checked them both about every week, after placing them under ten pounds of dead weight.

    In oak:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    In soft wood:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  41. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Pretty pictures, but give me d-rings anyday!
     
  42. FramingFool

    FramingFool In Corner

    You & me , Bob
     
  43. CAframer

    CAframer SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Or Super Steel!
     
  44. framermike

    framermike True Grumbler

    Maybe I'm just old-fashioned...I've been using braided wire for 20 years and am still happy with it. With all that practice I rarely get poked in the finger (by the wire) any more. I've been shown other "new" "improved" wire "systems" but none of them appeal to me.


    I try to avoid screw-eyes, using D-rings on smaller frames. I just hate those skinny wood frames that are too narrow for any sensible hanger! If someone wants a narrow frame, that's what the metal is for.


    20'x24" or larger I use the super-steel hangers which customers seem to find impressive, and I don't worry any more about whether the wire will stay attached to its frame.


    Cheers, and time to go home...I have this lengthy five minute commute.
    [​IMG]
    Mike
     
  45. danny boy

    danny boy PFG, Picture Framing God

  46. The King

    The King SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Check out Flangers.
     
  47. Sister

    Sister MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Yes, Flangers are the answer :D , but I pre-drill the holes to prevent splitting the frame--it will happen in a heartbeat. [​IMG]
     
  48. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    In my work area I hang my point guns, and staple guns, and ATG from flangers hanging from an overhead board dangling from a wire.

    My ATG guns I hang from the same board and use a noose rigged from a d-ring.

    (I use a screw eye to attach the wire to the board, even here I wouldn't use the DITH method! Sorry Jim, but I want to see the area of attachment. I not trusting my point guns to faith)
     
  49. Jay H

    Jay H PFG, Picture Framing God

    I thought a flanger was a guitar effect from the 60's?

    I just figured wallbuddes and now flangers? What the heck are those?

    How many hanging systems do we need?

    Carry on.
     
  50. Steph

    Steph SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Personally I have been stunned and amused that a thread on wire systems could go on so long.

    Keep the fire burning!
     
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