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How to attach

Discussion in 'Picture Framing Business Issues' started by DanGray, Aug 26, 2016.

  1. DanGray

    DanGray MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    I just had a customer in looking to frame this Japanese cloth. It has square wooden dowels at each end. They said it is very valuable and they don't want it stitch or glued or anything permanent 20160825_143022.jpg that may devalue it.
    It is 61 by 27

    Any Ideas?

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  2. 05

    05 MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Michael Verne at the Verne Gallery may well be able to tell you how this was intended to be displayed, which would be a place to start.
  3. Pat Murphey

    Pat Murphey SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Use the ribbon holes, but I doubt that you can get enough permanent tension to keep the center from sagging. If that black border is fabric, stitching can be pretty harmless. You are not a magician!
  4. munnframeworks

    munnframeworks True Grumbler

    Use longer dowels to span the inside of frame and secure thru side of frame.
    ArtMechanics likes this.
  5. DanGray

    DanGray MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    The Dowels are sewn in. The ends have a decorative material and wont let the dowel out
  6. munnframeworks

    munnframeworks True Grumbler

    Can you attach two long pieces to top of dowels and attach on sides
  7. Myrna

    Myrna CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    If the customer does not need to see the dowels it would be possible to roll the sides on to the dowels and make "pockets" for them to set into. Then you would have a flat plane and be able to treat the piece like a two dimensional image and over mat around the image part of the piece. This way, nothing would be attached to the artwork. A lot of care would need to take place so there is not irregular pressure on the piece and the dowels do not pull or twist the artwork.
    ArtMechanics likes this.
  8. Gilder

    Gilder MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    How about eye screw hangers on a top of dowels, then you can hang it.
  9. Jeff Rodier

    Jeff Rodier SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Did one not long ago that was a couple hundred years old and had been restored by a conservator. Large sections were missing so I used a mat board that blended with the background. Build a platform the length of the paper and then a backing board the entire length so the rods would seal into the recesses at the ends. In building the platform I made each layer different lengths so no stress would be put on the rods while holding them at the proper angle to not tear away. I then used mat board strips at each end to create a box pocket where the rods sat which also prevented the interior of the moulding to be seen. Frame was a shadow box the size of the scroll that allowed the scroll to sit with no attachment and OP3 acrylic glazing so it was just pressure holding it in place.

    I also wrote instruction on the backing so if it is ever taken out of the frame the future framer would understand that it was loose.
  10. DanGray

    DanGray MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Is it ok that the acrylic is pressing on the art work?

    Also the way this one is made the dowels are on top of the material.
  11. Jeff Rodier

    Jeff Rodier SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Acrylic is used regularly in pressure mounts and unless you have tacky image or media area that could stick is proper conservation. When you open it can the dowels be turned to a position where the paper flush with the top of the rod. Only needs to be enough so the paper is equal to the top of the rod.
    ArtMechanics likes this.
  12. ArtMechanics

    ArtMechanics True Grumbler

    Couldn't you let spacers sit on top of the dowel and give air space to the art, if it's truly a concern? A mat touching the glass with spacers around the opening of a recessed box. The dowel would be covered by the mat. The sides over matted too.

    Also, isn't this a vertical piece?

    Jeff's idea is super cool sounding I'd like to get a visual.
  13. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    It is designed to hang on a wall as is. But the value and fragility denotes that it needs
    protection so glazing is essential.

    I would make a deep glass/acrylic-fronted box with a sturdy back. The back would stand in for the
    wall. Then just fix it in a firm but minimally intrusive way. The dowels are the obvious fixing point.
    Maybe if you could bear to drill tiny holes in the top of the dowels you could use a formed rod system.
    Fix piano wire (or whatever) to a wood batten and curl it over into the dowel ends.
    I wouldn't worry too much about getting it tight across the middle. In fact it really needs a bit of slack.
    It should drape naturally as it would fixed to a wall. The deep box will give it plenty of room.

    I would be a bit iffy about using the ribbons. Although they would be the intended hangings they
    may have weakened if it's old.
  14. Pat Murphey

    Pat Murphey SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Dan, you haven't answered the question I raised about the black border - fabric? If so using the ribbon holes to mount the dowels and some fine stitches in the top border would be harmless.
  15. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I have framed several similar pieces, but none quite that large.

    In every case, I was able to thread strips of Mylar through the paper/fabric pockets holding the dowels - that is, the Mylar strips and dowels were together in the pockets, with about 6" of Mylar protruding from each end of each dowel's pocket. The Mylar strips were pulled through slots and attached to the back of the reinforced backing board.

    For such a large piece, I would suggest creating a special fabric-covered mounting board, with a 1/16" deep recess (one mat thickness) to serve as a very shallow sink for the long edges of the artwork, and a slightly deeper recess for each of the dowels. Also, maybe you could cut a window mat to go around the dowels and overlap the long edges of the artwork by about 1/8", which would keep the edges from falling out of the shallow sink.

    Hope that makes sense.
    shayla likes this.
  16. DanGray

    DanGray MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Sorry Had to check with the customer they took it home till I have some solutions.

    It is cloth

    The dowel is in there tight, no space at all between the dowel and material.
  17. Pat Murphey

    Pat Murphey SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    If I understand you, the ribbon is tight in the dowel holes. Can you push a needle through with strong or wire thread?
  18. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    too difficult to answer online without actually being able to touch the piece, see how fragile it is, where it would need to be supported.

    Could you build a strainer, create a lip on the front to keep the piece supported top and bottom and use the ribbon of the dowels to wrap it around the strainer to hold in place. I don't know how flappy this would be. I also don't know what kind of look they're after. Do they want it floated on top of something? Could you possible float mount it on top of a mat, using paper hinges and paste? Then poke hole in mat and guide the ribbon through that to support the dowels? Do they even want to see the dowels, or could you over mat it?
  19. wpfay

    wpfay Angry Badger

    Make a set (4) of wooden two piece clamps that capture the ends of the dowels. IMG_0706 (1).JPG The groove would be cut with a dado blade, and the rest is pretty straight forward (this is pretty rough, i would mess with he proportions a bit and look for some decorative brass hardware to spiff it up a little). This should be a bit loose so the art doesn't get pinched, and I would probably line it with frame sealing tape so there would be no direct wood/fabric contact. The clamps could be attached through the back of a fairly rigid support board. the cap is put on either end of the clamp securing the dowels from moving up or down. The clamp could also have some kind of turnbuckle tensioner concealed behind the mount. Regardless, without some kind of support, the image and fabric are going to droop in the middle.
  20. DanGray

    DanGray MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Yes there is no room at all around the dowel
  21. DanGray

    DanGray MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Yes they want to see the dowels

    They are so far open to how it is displayed as long as it is protected
  22. john lawless

    john lawless Guest

    you already have everything you need on the object. Use the ribbons to tie it open, if it needs more support attach nylon string to the dowels. keep it simple. although i am new her, i have been archival framing for over 45 years
  23. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Dan, how about a small strip of wood, paint to match the background, to attach top and bottom right next to the dowel. It should be fairly invisible. Top and bottom of those strips could be attached to frame, so you can keep a bit more tension on it (not too much). You could even do that top and bottom, horizontally to support further. Almost like a strainer, but shown on the front of the piece.
    Again, if you paint it too match (or wrap fabric around the wood) it would be easy, completely reversible and not too noticeable.
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