Experience with Moulding Suppliers?

[Rick Granick]

Now that I am ready to face taking down my Ivy samples, I'm going to have plenty of open spaces on my display boards. I plan to replace the hardwoods with, most likely, PictureWoods. As for the rest, a rep came in the other day representing Omega Moulding, and AMPF / AMCI. I saw some nice styles, but some overlap with things I have from other suppliers.
Anyone out there have any experience with these two suppliers? How is the quality? Service? Value? I'd love to get some advice before taking the plunge with a new company.
I mourn the loss of Ivy not only for their unique product line, the quality, and the value, but because I had gotten to a point where I felt my moulding selection was "just right" for the present... oh well, nothing is more constant than change.

:cool: Rick

[John Ranes II, CPF, GCF]

Rick,

This a very good question, and a good use of shared information for your decision process. I guess the only other thing, that might help anyone with a recommendation, would be knowing what lines you already show? Are they full lines? Bread & Butter?

Perhaps knowing if you're willing to order from the West Coast might also be useful. Some framers don't like waiting for chops! :D

John

[tnframer408]

I for one am quite imprssed recently with Omega. Don't know what's happened, but suddenly their quality is WAY up, some of their stuff is drop dead gorgeous--esp. the 3 and 4 inch profiles--and we use them quite often on canvases. Offering traditional looks as well as more European. They've got a profile that looks like Larson's Stradivarius that's hard to tell from Larson's; ditto Chateau at half the price. OK, so it's not watergilded. Do some customers really care???

I understand anothr family member took over the day to day at Omega and now quality is way improved.

[PAMELA DESIMONE,CPF]

In good conscience, I will not carry Omega. When companies such as Roma and Larson spend the money to design and develop a line of moulding, and take the chance and produce it, I don't feel comfortable supporting manufacturers who do nothing more than copy these designs. Call it a question of ethics, but that's just me. I do agree that Omegas basic line has improved since I first saw it many years ago.
I use both AMCI and AMPF. AMPF has been one of my best selling lines since I took them on. Any problems have always been delt with quickly, and I get delivery the day after I fax my order in. I think the shipping is free if the chops total over $60.00. I don't carry length, but when I did, they always had generous discounts.

[PAMELA DESIMONE,CPF]

P.S. PictureWoods is a wonderful company. I have has almost zero problems with them in all the years I've dealt with them, which is many. I requested 12" corner sample for my wall because I like the way they look, and they did them for me at no charge.

[MerpsMom]

Pamela, your thoughts are well taken. However, is it necessary to refuse to carry any of Omega's moulding because they carried a few of the supposed KOs? Seems there are very many companies who copy each other, perhaps even Larson and Roma. Omega does have several really great mouldings mentioned above and I have not seen these anywhere else. And their quality has improved unbelievably along with their customer service.

The KO problem is a thorny one, but perhaps there's no way to decide who "started" it. I won't buy the KOs but will buy the "originals" from a company. A problem.

[HannaFate]

If you are not going to buy from a company that does knock-offs, you can't buy from anyone. Everyone is "inspired by" everyone else. Larson and Roma included.

I have been happy with Omega and AMPF. The moldings are good quality, and the service is good. Omega seems to have a little better quality than AMPF. AMPF does have some interesting low cost moldings.

[tnframer408]

Pamela: I used the Strad only as an example. Omega has many profiles that are unique to them--at least I don't see them in the LJ or Roma lineup. Sorry for the confusion.

Didn't know AMPF and AMCI had length thought they were only closed corner folks. Will have to relook them. Are they priced along with LJ or Roma??? Willcall today for catalogues.

[EllenAtHowards]

I'm with Pamela (and glad to know that I am not alon). I won't buy the KOs. I will buy other things from the company, but it just doesn't seem right to me when I hear "Look! This is just like Larson's/Roma's (which it isn't quite... quality shows) and it is half the price." Call me a fuddy duddy, but how is this different from when I come up with a killer design that prices out high, and the customer goes to CheapCharlies with the idea in her head and gets an approximation for lots less 'cause Charlie never had an original idea in his life, thinking that a double opening double mat is really ritzy, and his quality standards aren't like mine, but hey! he's half the price!

[Ron Eggers]

I don't know if L-J "invented" the 548 profile and I don't think they could patent it. But I wish I had a nickel for every moulding company that has come in and said, "This is our version of Larson's 548 and it's $1.50/foot cheaper."

Sometimes they DO look pretty good but I find what sets the original apart is consistency of finish. I sometimes suspect that the stuff that L-J makes that doesn't pass inspection gets sold off to other moulding companies who sell it cheaper.

BTW, the 548 example is showing my age. I don't think anybody is making a living knocking off 548 today but it's early and I don't remember the names of the more modern mouldings they're copying today.

[Jerry Ervin]

Originally posted by PAMELA DESIMONE,CPF:
I will not carry Omega. ... I don't feel comfortable supporting manufacturers who do nothing more than copy these designs. I guess all of you who don't sell the cheaper moldings also refuse to buy other things that are knock offs. It would be nice to only buy Rolex watches, Gucci clothes, jewelry from Tiffanie's.

But here in the real world where most of can't afford such expensive stuff, we have to buy the cheaper things.

I sell really expensive moldings, and really cheap moldings. The "middle of the road" always sells best. Everyone can't afford a $1000.00 frame job.

I make a living off of people that walk out of other shops.

Jerry

[jframe]

Cheap is the word that comes to my mind when I see KO's. Some suppliers must think we are fools and cannot see the difference when, it is they who cannot see the difference. Among the KO problems are:

Shallow rabbits.

Grainy, poor quality wood.

Unfinished wood on the rabbet, lip and back.

Fake foil stamping on the finish.

No luster or depth of color in the finish.

Ornamentation is not as delicate or intricate.

Profiles are not as shapely, corners are blunted, shape is flatter/rounder etc.

There are more flaws.

Toning is inconsistant.

[dns ynko]

ampf/amci is a good company without a doubt. i find KO's to be good in some occassions. if you look at them you can tell the difference between the way companies finish thier moulding. now i can tell the difference, but can the customer? some yes some no. where does this leave you? i think frame shops have to many mouldings that are almost the same moulding. this is not smart. you pull down three mouldings and the customer saids are these the same? some times go with cheap sometimes go with the expensive, mix it up!
denniss

[AndyPan, CPF]

We have recently taken down almost ALL of Omega's mouldings from the wall. We've been increasingly unhappy with the quality of the mouldings we have gotten from them. From my experience, they have more twisting and warping than just about any other company I have ever dealt with. Their customer service has always been exemplary, but that is not what I put out for MY customers. Yes, they do have some really great larger mouldings, but as a whole, I am just not happy with the quality we have been receiving.

The knock-off thing isn't such a big deal. A lot of companies have similar looking profiles and finishes. Of course they're copying each other. Omega is notorious for this, a fact I would always bust my rep about by pulling the "original" off the wall. But just because it looks the same, doesn't meant the quality is the same, or that the quality will be consistent. I have had more issues with "good" wood being joined to "mush" wood in the same length, and we all know that the mush wood will almost never cut properly. So, with that in mind, we opted to "discontinue" Omega.

The good thing about losing Omega is that we opened our wall quite a bit, and are now adding two new companies, Fotiou and Roma. Both have great mouldings, and we look forward to working with them both.

[AndyPan, CPF]

Forgot to mention. We took on AMPF about 4-5 months ago, and couldn't be happier. The quality is excellent, the shipping is prompt, and customer service is great. My rep is a great guy to work with, and I always look forward to seeing their newest additions. IMO, a definite must-have.

[Jerry Ervin]

Originally posted by Ron Eggers:
I sometimes suspect that the stuff that L-J makes that doesn't pass inspection gets sold off to other molding companies who sell it cheaper.

BINGO!!! The stuff is made by the same manufacturer overseas. They sell it to what ever company that will buy it. It just doesn't have the "name".

This is true with many products in the world. Even manufacturers here in the US will run the same product and label it differently.

Jerry

[PAMELA DESIMONE,CPF]

One of the problems I see with knock offs is, once they are copied, everyone has them. I have been trying very hard to keep my moulding selection unique, and it is. I visit trade shows to see what is new first, and have them on my wall before anyone else. I don't want some price shopper to come to my store, get a price on a Roma, and go somewhere else and get a price on a knock-off. What are they going to think? The customer doesn't know the difference in the mouldings, but they will think I was trying to soak them. So, I try to keep an eye out for what is being copied. New mouldings are being offered all the time, so it is pretty easy to pull one in favor of something new. With a number of moulding companies offering new designs twice a year, I don't need Omega or Decor.
BTW, I have tried cheap mouldings. I thought it might be a good idea to have some on hand for the "price conscious" customer. After spending much to much time fiddling with these mouldings, trying to make them look good-they chip, they have more flaws, they seem to be more prone to warping-the money saved for the customer wasn't worth the extra time spent by us. Studio and AMPF have some reasonably priced offerings that don't give me headaches.
Of course not everyone can afford $1,000 frame jobs. But there are plenty of reasonably priced mouldings available to offer that are not knock offs of someone elses.

[GRYPHON 1]

Jerry is right on the money. Very few moulding companies design their own moulding and then it is very few items. Most Spanish mouldings are designed by an artist in Spain named Kino. Example Larsons primitive line was designed by Kino. Factories will hire Kino to develop new lines wich they offer to compaies in the U.S.. Its up to the companies here to negotiate exclusives on these mouldings. If companies designed most of their own mouldings Saca trade show in Italy would not be so popular. What you need to remeber is most of the companies you work with here do not manufacture the product they sell to you nor do they design it. They simply go to the Saca show look at all the new lines,try to guess what you will buy and then try to make deals with the factories for exclusive rights in the U.S.on these items. (in a nut shell)

[2400]

Monarch: is the worst moulding company. Stay away from this bozos.

[Artrageous]

Originally posted by Jerry Ervin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ron Eggers:
I sometimes suspect that the stuff that L-J makes that doesn't pass inspection gets sold off to other molding companies who sell it cheaper.

BINGO!!! The stuff is made by the same manufacturer overseas. They sell it to what ever company that will buy it. It just doesn't have the "name".

This is true with many products in the world. Even manufacturers here in the US will run the same product and label it differently.

Jerry </font>[/QUOTE]And we all wonder how Home Depot and Loews offer so many brand names so cheap!!
Next time you have an inferior piece of molding, cut a small frame out of it and offer it for pennies. Someone will buy it! Scale that up a thousand times and you've got the BB's...Mark

[Ron Eggers]

Originally posted by 2400:
Monarch: is the worst moulding company. Stay away from this bozos. I suppose it's possible that this is true, but I'm sure all of us could tell horror stories about our "favorite hates."

I've never heard of Monarch, so I'm not in a position to defend them. We have to be careful about sweeping generalizations on a public forum, though.

I won't mention the name of the company, for example, whose rep I threatened to have physically removed from my shop after telling him I would mill my own moulding before I'd buy another foot from him.

And, yes, I KNOW it's called The Grumble.

[Jerry Ervin]

UNDEAD THREAD ALERT!!!!

I won't mention the name of the company, for example, whose rep I threatened to have physically removed from my shop after telling him I would mill my own moulding before I'd buy another foot from him.
WOW Ron, that sounds out of character for you. What was the issue? Quality, Price, Customer Service, or you just did not like the Rep?

[Ron Eggers]

All of the above, Jerry.

The rep himself was the most abrasive individual I've ever encountered in any position. It's hard to imagine anyone sending him out to represent their company but, in this case, it was probably a good fit.

I am generally kind to reps, who are only trying to do their jobs. That ends when they start interfering with MY job.

Incredibly, I think the company disappeared years ago. They certainly deserved to.

[danvestate]

If it wasn't for KO's , we wouldn't have flat screen T.V.s., high end cameras, and 120 GB hard drives. If only one company has the exclusive to a ceratin item, most likely you will be paying higher prices. Our economy runs on competition. If someone is able to supply a certain product for less, the retailer and the customer profits. Bottom line - KO's keep prices lower.

[Baer Charlton]

The original is Lipitor @ $187/month, the generic or KO is $87/month or $32 from Canada for a three month supply. Which is your mother buying.

Back to original post Rick. I have good news. And it has nothing about switching my insurance to Geico.

If you loved Ivy, you're gonna REALLY love Garrett. Picture woods too. At the shop, I carry both. PW does craftsman Hicks frames/ Garrett does not. PW does 2-3", G no (but soon).

PW does that "lacquer look" as where Garrett does more of a waxed fine furniture for your walls thing.

But most important, when they were breaking up Ivy (auction) Garrett was able to get some the moulders, and profile designs..... They have released three of the hotter sellers already and more are on the way.

Their newest is a 5/8" OT cherry with aobut 7/8" under the lip. Stack about 5 mats, glass, & backing. Antique cherry and a premium dark cherry.
# 95-063c & 95-078c.

1800-645-3344. Tell Lori I said hi.

[Rick Granick]

Thanks, Baer. Are they planning to do any of the Ivy golds and silvers too? They had some nice looking Whistlers, Decos, and Traditionals with very useful finishes at very reasonable prices. Of course the finishes on their hardwoods were great too. Plus, I miss the nice folks who used to answer the phone with sweet southern accents.
:( Rick

[Baer Charlton]

Wall Reck, if youall call my cell phone, I'll try trey to answer with thet there sweet suthun ascent. But if I slip into CalMex, just understand that is southern for this former Cal boy. Stabein?

Not real sure at this point about the metals. We have a working relationship with Designer, and we kind of leave that stuff to them and concentrate on hardwoods.

I've been talking with Tom about some of the old Revere profiles with a lift in the rabbit. [Nothing less than 5/8" has been my mantra for over 20 years.]

He's open to some of the wider stuff 1-1/2" - 2-1/2" or so in the more clean lines of traditionals, (Revere, Taylor, Sells, and other post Federalist.) I hadn't thought about Whistler, but now that you mention it, I think it would be nice in some darker cherries.

[B. Newman]

Originally posted by Baer Charlton:
I'll try trey to answer with thet there sweet suthun ascent. Well, there's yore problem - ever'body knows that Suthern should be capitalized...

Bet