How to price a limited print

[Ylva]

I have a nice local artist/customer who has printed a limited edition of one of her pastels. The edition is 800 pieces, all signed and numbered by the artist.
She has asked my advise on how much to ask for it. She thought about $55.00, which in my opinion seems a bit on the low side? (forgive my ignorance please).

I have no idea what to tell her other than look at her cost and what she wants her profit margin to be. What other questions should I ask her?
And yes, I plan to sell them in my store. What percentage would you ask when selling one?

[j Paul]

What are her original works selling for?
What could she get for this original piece?
Of course her costs for this edition of 800 pieces needs to be taken into account.
Is she also going to be retailing them herself?
If she is retailing them herself and only taking a retail markup over her costs, she might not have room for a wholesale price.
Are you selling on consignment or purchasing them outright?
Why should your markup be any different on this piece than anyother you might handle?

[Jay H]

Usually I think the value of prints is anywhere between 1/2 and 1/3 what the artist think it's worth.

Consignment and other fancy selling schemes are only making an item that is difficult to sell impossible to sell.

[Ylva]

What are her original works selling for?
What could she get for this original piece?
Of course her costs for this edition of 800 pieces needs to be taken into account.
Is she also going to be retailing them herself?
If she is retailing them herself and only taking a retail markup over her costs, she might not have room for a wholesale price.
Are you selling on consignment or purchasing them outright?
Why should your markup be any different on this piece than anyother you might handle?


The first 2 questions I will ask her. Thanks.
She has been retailing them herself, for $55, which seems low to me but again, I don't know about these things.
I would sell them on consignment. What is the usual percentage you take?
I don't have a markup yet for anything besides custom framing.... I just opened my doors in September and have been concentrating on the framing part. I don't sell art/posters etc. yet but this seems a good way to start. Again, any suggestions welcome!

[Ylva]

Consignment and other fancy selling schemes are only making an item that is difficult to sell impossible to sell.

I think this is an item I could sell. I am planning to frame it and use it as a framing sample, with a small card next to it mentioning the art is for sale separately as well.

[Jay H]

There was a class about selling art a few years ago. I can't remember but I think it was the guy who owns the Art Shop in NC who led the class. He said something that I have found to work best for me. That is that if you want to sell art, then buy it. If you like it and believe in it, then ask the artist how much for 10 copies.

I sell both art I own and some commission stuff. The art I own sells 20:1 over art on commission. I could make an educated guess as to why that is. In the end it would still be a guess.

[Dave]

I've gone through this scenario often with photographers and find that they generally don't charge enough. Many feel if they recover there processing fees and make a couple bucks they're happy. For them it's just an ego thing and they want people to appreciate their work.

How did she arrive at this $ 55.00 odd figure? What size is the work?
What media are they printed on and how breathtaking are they? Is the image something that might have popular or local appeal?

Like anything else the price is determined by the market. If it is a good quality image then price it for what you think it would sell for remembering that perception is reality.

For more down-to-earth advise I'd say that if you are buying the art it should be a minimum of 100% mark-up from wholesale cost. If it is on a consignment basis then it should be a minimum a cost X 1.55.

I would opt for a consignment basis and realize that the true profit potential would be in residual framing sales. Consider framing three different prints in three radically different framing designs. I did this with a print of the ND Golden Dome watercolor by a local artist and used it to show how different framing designs totally changed the look of the artwork. We rarely had three on the wall as they sold constantly.

[j Paul]

Ylva, Jay has a valid point regarding believing in and purchasing the art you sell.

Think of it like this, suppose you have a piece of art you own on the wall for $55.00 retail that you are making keystone markup on. And then there is this piece of consignment artwork with a retail of $55.00 but you are taking less of a markup on. Which would you rather be selling? They both take up your valuable retail space.

I don't have much on consignment myself but what I do, I have the same markup on. I don't set my retail higher than what the artist is selling it for themselves either (that would be :nuts: ) If they are retailing it, then my wholesale has to be keystone or better.

[Jay H]

I've gone through this scenario often with photographers and find that they generally don't charge enough. Many feel if they recover there processing fees and make a couple bucks they're happy. For them it's just an ego thing and they want people to appreciate their work.


As a photographer selling my work and others, I'd probably fall into this category. I can assure you it's a well thought out strategy and not an ego thing.

For me pricing art is no different than pricing framing. I ask how much can I sell it for and how much does it cost. All ego is removed:)

I have photos here that are much better than mine priced at $400. If I ever sell one I will be thrilled. I sell mine for a tiny fraction of that and the ROI is inversely proportional to the income I make off the $400 prints. The problem is that 1/2 of nothing is still nothing.

As with anything it is a balance. I have had at least 200 conversations with photographers this year about pricing and to be honest, I feel that few have any idea what their work is really worth. Most think much more highly of their photos than people with the money do. They would prefer to sell 2 in a lifetime for $1000 than 5 a week for $50. The latter, IMO, is much more realisitc.

I hope you don't think we have stolen your thread. I think this all on topic.

[Ylva]

She doesn't want to sell it cheaper than I do... she just needs a price that we will both keep.

I do like the idea of framing a few in different ways. I am a bit hesitant in buying art, as I have no experience yet what will sell and what not. Only thing to go by is that I have had a lot of customers with similar themed pieces they wanted framed.
I just need to start somewhere without putting too much money into it.

[Ylva]

I hope you don't think we have stolen your thread. I think this all on topic.

Absoluty not! This all helps as I am sure I will have more photographers and artists coming in with similar questions/suggestions.

I agree with the rather selling 5 in a week for lesser price than the one or two in a lifetime at a much higher (and sometimes unrealistic) price.

[Dave]

...

I agree with the rather selling 5 in a week for lesser price than the one or two in a lifetime at a much higher (and sometimes unrealistic) price.

Not to mention that you will hopefully be framing those five a week!

If you want to downside your risk go with the consignment arrangement. No skin off your back if they don't sell.

[j Paul]

Well heck yea, if you get the framing on 5 a week, go for it. Many of us (myself included) have a bin full of prints in that price range that we would give them for 1/2 price or even Free if we got a framing job out of it. (not the poster special) Question is do you have enough traffic to sell them?:icon19:

[shayla]

What size is the print, Ylva? Is it on a high quality archival paper or more like a poster?

Depending on where you live, 800 are probably going to take a long time to sell. She must have paid an arm and a leg to get them all made at once. I'm thinking of a local artist here who came up with a poster print in an edition of 500. It's been eight years and about half have sold.

We usually sell prints on a commission basis, but buy
them outright now and then. I think I prefer commission, because then if they don't sell we aren't stuck with them. As far as pricing, these guys have given really good advice. Jay's right that it's important to strike a good balance between selling less prints for more money or more prints for less money. I remember a local gal who came in years ago. A self-taught watercolorist, her work sold on occasion, but really needed improvement before it could find a wider market. One day she came in and said, "I'm not making enough money selling these for $450.00. Let's raise them to $700.00" It was like shooting herself in the foot, but we honored her wish. Guess how many more sold.

[Jay H]

Before Ylva answers I would like to ask how the size will change the retail price?

[shayla]

Hi, Jay. Your point is well-taken, and the size might not affect it much at all. I know it's kind of a goofy question, but seems worth asking anyway. We have prints in our shop ranging from 6x9 inches to 32x40, and while the size shouldn't be what dictates the price, it's good to at least know what she's talking about. What a printer charged her per print to make 11x14's could be a lot less than what they charged her to make 24x36's. That might affect what she has left out of her $55.00 price after paying both the printer and gallery commission.

[Dave]

Also there is a perceived value factor. To most consumers a larger print would denote a higher price.

[Luddite]

What about displaying one in the shop ,to see how people react.lots of interested potential customers? then work on setting a value. L.

[nikfrz]

Before giclees came along, lithos were retail priced by the artist or whomever was representing them. The artist had to keep in mind the wholesale price to galleries and the distributor price to reps in order to make some profit. The retail price was across the board. What she/he sold that print for retail themselves, I would also, and also the gallery across town. Customers will get their drawers in a wad over $2.00 difference in a print.

[Jeff Rodier]

I think it is most important to know the printing method and paper used. I see a ton of these limited edition artist prints around here. Most are printed by the cheapest method possible and are already fading by the time the customer gets around to framing them.

I just scanned, corrected and printed 9 pieces that a customer had done 6 months ago by a professional graphics house. The original prints were printed with a laser printer. Now if these things looked that bad after 6 months do you want to be responsible for what your artists prints look like in 2 years.

Are you able to find out the paper, printer and ink type used before investing in magically color changing prints?

[Jay H]

This is interesting - the size and print quality determining the value of art.

[Dave]

This is interesting - the size and print quality determining the value of art.

I understand where you are going with this, Jay, but we are not talking fine art collectible prints here. A "limited edition" of 800 IMHO does not constitute a collectible print. This is more of a reproduction and therefore size and quality of the reproduction, i.e., substrate used and printing processes employed, will influence the perceived value to the consumer.

[Ylva]

Okay, some answers; the size is 22 x 28. I don't know about quality of print/ink and so on. Other than ask the artist, is there a simple way to determine what I am dealing with, things to look for?

I am thinking to just frame one sample and see what the reactions are from customers. But again, I want to put a price on it so the customer has the option to purchase the print separately. I will not keep any stock (artist lives close by). I can go with the $55 but was just wondering if this was too low as most art posters already go for $55 without it being a limited edition.
Again, I have no experience with this, just trying to find some answers.

[RParrish]

On consignment your cut should be 50%. I usually recommend that artist recover all the cost of printing when they sell the first two or three prints. As far as numbers go $55 is a wierd number, $49 or $59 are easier on peoples fragile mental states. I was pricing small items at $9.44 and when you add our sales tax it comes to an even $10. Customers have the hardest time with that concept, they always ask why???? If I price at $10 and add sales tax they could care less.

[Jay H]

I usually recommend that artist recover all the cost of printing when they sell the first two or three prints.

Out of how many prints? Along with quality and size we are adding cost of the printing to the "whats it worth" equation.

I understand where you are going with this, Jay, but we are not talking fine art collectible prints here.

I'm not going anywhere with anything. I just find it all interesting. If size and quality of the image is suggestive of a higher price than the 40x60 art by the yard paintings are priceless because they are large and will outlast most of us.

I think the size or the quality has very little to do with retail.

I would think that availability, demand, market, marketing, artists popularity, and the like would far exceed size and how it's printed in determining the retail value.

I would consider what kind of following the artist has? How many prints have the done/sold before? How do they market themselves? How do other prints sell in your shop - city? How much demand is there for that type of image? How rare is it? What is your cost? Finally how is it printed and how big is it would be considered but not as a primary concern to me.

This is a consignment project though so I don't that any of this really matters. If she wants to price it at $50 and give you 30% - 50% and you think you can sell em, then jump on it.

[RParrish]

I think the size or the quality has very little to do with retail.

I would think that availability, demand, market, marketing, artists popularity, and the like would far exceed size and how it's printed in determining the retail value.

I would consider what kind of following the artist has? How many prints have the done/sold before? How do they market themselves? How do other prints sell in your shop - city? How much demand is there for that type of image? How rare is it? What is your cost? Finally how is it printed and how big is it would be considered but not as a primary concern to me.

This is a consignment project though so I don't that any of this really matters. If she wants to price it at $50 and give you 30% - 50% and you think you can sell em, then jump on it.

Jay I think you're right, size doesn't matter, edition size would , the smaller the edition the greater the value, the type of printing can detrimine value as well, a hand printed etching or litho (or even a photograph) will always create more value than a giclee or offset litho, anything mass producable.
Demand and desire for an image will also create value, along with a history of past sales.

[Ylva]

Some more info about the artist:
She has sold about 200 posters of this edition in the last 6 years. Her original pastels (unframed) sell for $500 and she sells about 10 a year.

She does not remember what kind of printing was used, was told 'color separation' which doesn't mean much to me. I just assume that is the difference between digital printing and some sort of screen printing.
It's on acid free paper.
The $55 basically covers her costs, according to her.
She is not good in marketing herself. Hasn't tried any active sales or promoting.
She sells her pieces because there is a dance studio where her work is on display and people just happen upon it.

Does this help at all in determining a price? And what should my commission be? She told me that galleries would take 40% but would be more active in selling. How true is this?

[HB]

To price anything that you want to sell & make profit on, the only thing that really matters is:

How many are buying?
How much will they pay?
What are your costs?
How much profit do you want to make?

Its a balancing act. You won't know until you have tried things. maybe you should trya test market - thats's a lot of prints for anyone to sell!

Does how big it is matter? Only to the extent that it effects the above 4 questions. As Mr. Bean (the art expert - you know) once said, If it was microscopic, no -one would enjoy it)!

[Dave]

Color separation is necessary in order to make reproductions in most printing processes whether it is digitally reproduced, lithographically reproduced, silk screened or even color copied.

Here's a def...

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/C/color_separation.html

If the $ 55.00 only covers her costs, how can she wholesale them?

Galleries generally take 40-50% or more commission on original works of art and actively promote the works through mailings and events like wine & cheese openings, etc. Usually these artist/gallery arrangements are exclusive or at least regionally exclusive. Print sales are usually not nearly as exclusive but sometimes are like with TK's, Bateman's or Redlin's. Usually these are somewhat controlled by the publisher of the prints to control the market.

[RParrish]

Yea but if your selling a poster for someone why wouldn't you make atleast 50%? Of course you would, they only difference is your paying for it upfront.

[Ylva]

The thing is, it won't cost me anything. I am not keeping any stock, am not buying them from her. It would be strictly consignment.
This artist is absolutely not a business person (she admits so herself) and to me it is incomprehensible that she would sell against cost price. Of course I have no way of checking if that's true.
I am planning to frame one sample, as I do need new sample pieces for my wall anyway but want to give potential customers the option to buy the poster alone (artist lives almost around the corner so I don't need to keep anything here in stock).
Does 30% commission sound reasonable enough? I am after all not really actively promoting this.

[Dave]

Ylva ...if I thought the image had potential and I would garner some frame jobs from it and have good relations with the artist then, yes, I could live with that margin. No investment other than wall space and a framed piece so no real downside.

[HB]

Sounds reasonable to me esp if you are getting framing out of it!

[Art Guard]

I kinda doubt that she made 800 passes with a hand press. It sounds more like offset (or worse!). If this is the case, I think $1 to $2 would be about correct. That way she would earn $800 - $1600 for making the original. $44,000 seems a bit excessive don't ya think? Regards, Scott

[Jeff Rodier]

Hi Scott, I think you're right about the offset lithograph. The process is the industry standard and usually the color seperation and initial set up fee in the past was in the range of $10,000.

$44,000 for the entire edition sounds very reasonable if the printing process was from a high quality source. The time to recover her costs would be several years. Most artists have swithed over to Giclee printing because it is printed on demand.

There are a lot of arguments for and against both processes but again if the offset was from a high quality source the prints will actually be identical where Giclee prints done over several years will have a lot of variables.

[Art Guard]

Hi Jeff, You are correct about high cost pre production of the past, but current high quality digital production is peanuts. In fact, many high quality printed books and magazines are now produced in the orient, unfortunately closing down most photogravure coming out of German and Swiss printing plants. Look at the current printing prices from Modern Postcard's 3 and 4 color work... not expensive. While I was a bit glib about 1-2 $ price tag, no original is sold, and production costs are covered after the first group of sales.A run of 800 is also thought to be a commercial number and not art related...but, you seem to know your stuff ol' boy. Ever do any printing yourself? Regards, Scott

[Jeff Rodier]

Hi Scott, I print all of my own stuff on my Epson 9800 and Epson 4800. Just like printing money without the jail time.

Jeff