Am I the only one?

[FrameMakers]

I have an AMP VN-42 underpinner. I was taught to join frames from the outside of the machine with the moulding on a table facing away from me. I am about to rebuild my joining table and have been asking other framers for ideas as to better designs. I am finding out that most people seem to join frames from the inside.

I have been joining frames for 24 years from the outside and I don't know if I could change even if I wanted to. To be honest I just can't get my head wraped around how you join frames from the inside. It seems to me that small frames would be ok, and large ones you can stand in the middle of (I might need larger then most) but the mid sized frames would seem to be difficult to reach over when joining the 3rd & 4th corners.

How do you join your frames?

My other question for you is what does your joining table look like?

My current one is about 3'x4' with the underpinner slotted in the corner. I am considering also a square table with the underpinner on the middle of one side. Oh BTW the whole unit must be on casters and be able to move on a regular basis.

Thanks
Dave

[Jerry Ervin]

I have an AMP VN-4 that I bought from United a bunch of years ago. When I bought it, I also bought the floor stand and extension table. With the extension table installed, there is no way you can stand looking at the rabbet side of the moulding, you absolutely have to stand to the back.

Maybe, I don't really know, but maybe AMP has a special floor stand and extension table for the VN-42. Check with United. They can hook you up if it's available.

[FrameMakers]

My VN-42 is does have the floor stand but no extentions. I am not looking to change, but I was just wondering how everyone else was doing it.

[maryframer]

I have a new to me VN2+1 and I am using it from the outside too.

The first time I used one I was moonlighting from my full time framing job as a frame joiner at a MD distributer's and theirs was also mounted to a joining table you operated form the back/outside.

I have never used any joiner from the inside. I don't get it either. To each his own.

Mary

[smantecon]

I have a VN-42 as well and join from the outside also. I tried from the inside at first, but it just didn't feel right.

Scott Mantecon
Coastal FrameWorks
www.coastalframeworks.com

[TessaE]

I have done it both ways. Right now I join towards me, but when I worked in the roma warehouse in atlanta back in 98, the man who did the joining taught me how to do it using an extension table with out putting them in a vice first. has saved me lots of time.

[Jim Miller]

Hi Dave:

For several years I used AMP VN2+1 and VN-42 machines tilted at about 45 degrees with a 48" square (Masonite) support table attached to the machine at the same angle. Both of those machines were set up to operate from behind, with the frame going up and out from the other end of the machine.

Now I have my machine placed horizontally, nosed into the corner of a small room, with 4 ft. long moulding-support shelves attached to the walls. The machine is still supported by a tilt stand, but it is horizontal.

I had it on wheels for easy rolling into the other room to join frames larger than 48" on a side (bigger than would fit in the room), but it moved around more than I wanted. So I took off the wheels, which I like better, and now just drag it into the other room if the frame is oversize.

I operate it from the front, where all the instruments are controls are right-side-up and easily accessible. When the frame is smaller than about 20x24, I stand beside it and reach. If the frame is larger and beyond reach from the side, I stand inside it.

When joining the third and fourth corners of large frames, the outboard corner is supported by a small, portable workstand (resembles a roller on legs).

[RoboFramer]

I saw a demo of an underpinner where the guy ended up in the frame and thought 'why the ..... would anyone want to do that!'

He had to lift it over his head - I have low ceilings and with a large frame I could do some damage to it.

Mine is sunk into the corner of my only workbench, which is 12'x6' - if I get a ginormous frame I'll have to clear it, but when the final corner is joined I can just walk away from it and not limbo under it or otherwise escape from it.

[JBergelin]

Don't ya jus lov de limbo..... :D :D

[MacGyver]

I have a Cassese CS79(foot operated) and a Cassese CS89( pneumatic) and have been framing from the inside for almost seven years now. IMHO it doesn't matter if you join frames from the inside or outside as long as the joins are tight and you are mighty comfortable with whatever position you use. Most High end underpinners today are designed for frames to be joined from the inside, the CS79 however has a rotating table which you can turn 4 ways for that extra demanding joining job.

[Paul Cascio]

I'm an Outie. If you join from the inside, there comes a point where either you are too big to fit in the frame, or you arms aren't long enough.

[Mike Labbe @ GTP]

We join from the outside, too, with our VN42

Great question and topic. This would have made an interesting poll.

Mike

[hangupsgallery]

Cast a vote for the "innies". Our VN4 is recessed into a tabletop with carpet surface. The finished frame is stored directly below the assembly table in verticle partitioned dividers. The machine can be as close to the wall as you'd like saving valuable shop space. We have a rolling support for those larger frames. All the controls are oriented toward the operator so you don't have to reach or look around the bulk of the machine. Just followed the instructions in the owners manual when we got the machine 20 years ago...didn't know there was an option.

As for the limbo...keeps us trim and slim.

Steve

[Val]

I'm an innie. I have to wear the bigger frames. This one being my first underpinner (VN2) I didn't know there could be another way. Now I do, and thinking of how I might set it up differently in the future. I feel silly doing the hula inside those frames and sometimes my arms just aren't long enough to support them and I have to wait for help.

[RoboFramer]

So what happens if a lady framer is 38-22-36 and gets a 24" frame pinned around her waist?

[Val]

Well John, Barbie will have to let us know when that happens, won't she?

I'd like to see that.....Framer Barbie!

[framah]

John... the frame would be bigger diagonally ( not Diagon Alley) thus her
38's would fit thru at the corners! :thumbsup: :popc: :popc:

[framah]

I join from the outside and I have a table that had been made to accept a VN-2 so it sat flush with the top so the legs of the frame had full support. I use an outfeed stand to support over size pieces.

I just got a VN42 and had to cut out the shelf that held the old nailer and the new one sits in ther on its stand and is still flush to the top.
My old VN 4 is for sale but you would want to have the machine refurbished as it has leaks and I don't want to hassle sending it in myself and THEN selling it.

$400.00 as is.

[AWG]

I'd like to see that.....Framer Barbie!

You know, John Ranes sells a number of figurines (nutcrackers).....maybe he could commission some? I know there's a framer nutcracker...or would that be the same as a Framer Barbie? Sorry

BTW we join from outside - any other way would just feel wrong

[RoboFramer]

John... the frame would be bigger diagonally ( not Diagon Alley) thus her
38's would fit thru at the corners!

You sure about that?

Looks like my next employee may be female - if I turn my underpinner around she may need some assistance there!