Just had a weird thing happen with my IF...

[J Phipps TN]

OK, I'm working with a customer, the camera is ready and on. I get busy trying to narrow down the frame choices and then go to take a picture and the camera is locked up.

When I get up and check it the camera is not responding at all. I unplug and fiddle with it untill I just shut the whole computer down and unplug and replug.

It starts working again and when I go to take a picture it locks up and the IF tells me " intializing something 9" I can't remember exactly now what it said,( and I hope it never says it again.)

It seems to be working fine right now, but does anybody know what happened? and can a camera get too hot since it is mounted on the ceiling where the heat rises (my heat pump ducts are in the ceiling) It stays about 20 degrees hotter up there.

[j Paul]

Jen, first off, in answer to your question on another thread, no it is not you on my ignore list.:smiley:

My IF freezes on me once in a while for no good reason. We talked to support and the only other program I run on that computer is Liebermans on DVD. I even upgraded and doulbled my RAM.

The last week or so, it seems like the first design of the day, I am frooze up. (I let that computer run 24/7 for the Lieberman screen saver presentation) When I turn off IF and start it again the problem goes away. I have just started turning IF off at night (only the application, not the camera) and I don't have the problem. Now that is only a patch and not fixing or knowing the cause of the problem.

[WizSteve]

Yeah, that's a known problem... I'm working on making IFV a little more robust so that when the camera tanks it doesn't take the whole program down with it.

Most of the time I can recover by just unplugging the USB cable from the computer and plugging it back in, but rarely I also have to cycle power to the camera too.

[danny boy]

I get the same thing here also. Usually have to close the program, disconect camera power supply, wait a minute and than start fresh. Does it to me every couple of days or so.

[j Paul]

[quote=WizSteve;269874]Yeah, that's a known problem... I'm working on making IFV a little more robust so that when the camera tanks it doesn't take the whole program down with it.
quote]


Good to know you're aware of the problem, and I have confidience that it'll get taken care of.

[dougj]

We have the same problem, locks up the computer and have to shut down.
Seems to happen if we try to zoom in, we have to go really slow one step at a time even then it will lockup.
Not really good when you are working with a customer and they have to wait for you to start over.
Hope you can get it straightened out Steve.

[j Paul]

I hope you get if fixed quick Steve, it is beginning to get really irriating. It is happening everday now, and locks up the whole computer and the only way to get out is to manually hold in the power button on the computer. This computer has never been hooked up to the internet and only runs IF and Liebermans. Problem only used to be once in a while. I guess I should really call tech support.

[Dani]

Some things to try: (Note that these items are subject to change as technologies and version numbers change)

1. Check the version of the Zoombrowser.exe you are running. This file may be on your desktop; if not, you may need to do a search for it. If this file cannot be found, it could be that the software that came with the camera was never installed.
Double-Click on the Zoombrowser.exe to run it, then Click Help to see what version you are running.
You should be running Zoombrowser.exe version 5.7. If you are not, you need to go to Canon's website and download the version 5.7. Zoombrowser for your camera.

2. You must be using the USB Camera cable that came with the camera. If you substitute a different USB cable other than the one that came with the camera, you will experience problems.

3. Use a USB 2.0 Extender.
If you require that the camera be farther away from the computer than the 15' cable allows, you must use an USB 2.0 Extender cable attached to the USB cable that came with your camera. If another type of cable is used, you will experience problems. The USB 2.0 Extender cable has a maximum length of 150 feet.

4. Use a Cat 5 Network Cable on the USB 2.0 Extender (USB Extender via Cat 5).
The cable that comes with the camera is attached to the camera. The USB 2.0 Extender cable is attached to the camera cable. The Cat 5 Network Cable is attached to the USB 2.0 Extender cable. The other half of the USB 2.0 Extender cable is attached to the Cat 5 Network Cable, which is then plugged into the computer.

[J Phipps TN]

Thanks everybody, I thought for sure I had done something stupid. I'm relieved it isn't me for a change!:beer:
I have found that the trouble is when I am trying to zoom to quickly. I'll have to slow down and take more care. At least now I know I'm not alone!!:thumbsup:


JPaul, I'm so glad it wasn't me, I get a little paranoid sometimes. I'm one of those people who needs for people to like me. :o I'm working on it though.


Thanks everybody!:smiley:

[j Paul]

Thanks Dani, I did just download the Zoom Browser 5.7, as my version was 4.6.0.32 and I was not aware I needed an update. My USB was extended by 8 or 10' if I remember correctly, but I know we purchased the recommended cable as we talked to tech support at the time.

The version of IF we are running is 3.1.1 which was a maintenace release, I have received no notification that there is a later version.

Will report back here and see if the new 5.7 fixed the problem or not.

We have a Cel 2.66GHz w/760mb ram and the only programs that we have open at the same time are IF & Liebermans. Freeze up even happens when Liebermans is closed (although it still runs as screen saver)

[j Paul]

UPDATE

Well, I upgraded my zoom browser and everything was working fine thru several designs yesterday, come back in this afternoon with program running over night but sitting idle 18 hours and I get message: "error intializing viewfinder, 97".

At least program is not locked up, as it allows me to close IF. Opened again and try to do a camera capture and recieve this message: "error 128, Error connecting to camera, capture aborted"

Do a normal shut down & restart, and try to do a image captrue again, this time program locks up and have to do the ESC/CTRL/ALT thing to shut off the computer & restart.

Finally after restarting computer for the second time, IF is working again, but I know this is again only temp.

I have had program for about a year, since last years Vegas show, so I guess around 11 mo. It has really only been acting like this for the past few weeks, maybe a month. Again this computer has never been hooked up to internet, so no viruses that way, and with the exception of zoombrowser 5.7 that I loaded yesterday there have been no new programs added.

What do you think? I will be calling tech support on Monday!

[PaulSF]

I've noticed a couple of things. First, IF doesn't work well if you have a web browser open at the same time. So we shut down Firefox when using IF.

Second, the order in which I plug things in seems to matter. I don't have the camera mounted from the ceiling -- we have to set it up each time on a tripod. So I set up the camera on the tripod, then plug the USB cord into the computer, and wait for the computer to register that the camera is hooked up. Then, after that has happened and I have closed all the various windows that have annoyingly popped up, I open IF. That seems to work for me.

[j Paul]

WOW Paul!

I've noticed a couple of things. First, IF doesn't work well if you have a web browser open at the same time. So we shut down Firefox when using IF


Our Computer is dedicated just to IF and Liebermans and it isn't hooked up to internet, so that is not our problem

Second, the order in which I plug things in seems to matter. I don't have the camera mounted from the ceiling -- we have to set it up each time on a tripod. So I set up the camera on the tripod, then plug the USB cord into the computer, and wait for the computer to register that the camera is hooked up. Then, after that has happened and I have closed all the various windows that have annoyingly popped up, I open IF. That seems to work for me.

WOW AGAIN, that sounds like a huge pain, but I guess you got it worked out for you. Our camera is ceiling mounted over design counter and everything hooked up all of the time. Until this problem cropped up in the last month or so we use to leave computer and both IF and Liebermans running 24/7 with never a problem.Thanks for your input though.

[PaulSF]

j --

I would've loved to hang the camera from the ceiling, but I had just spent beaucoup folding money doing the interior design for my store. The idea of getting a contractor back in and paying him thousands of dollars (which is what it costs here) to install the camera and all the cabling just didn't appeal to me. Especially when I'm still not drawing pay for myself. The tripod works just fine, and we keep the camera tucked away in a drawer when not needed.

[dougj]

Paul we are in the same boat.
We did the 5.7 and it worked once.
Now when we try to zoom, even step by step it locks up and spits us out
It seems to be worsterer instead of gooderer!
HEY STEVE:help:

[Natalya Murphy]

... come back in this afternoon with program running over night but sitting idle 18 hours and I get message: "error intializing viewfinder, 97".

At least program is not locked up, as it allows me to close IF.

Veering ever so slightly off-topic... I'm not sure what camera you have, but with our camera, if IF is up, the camera stays in shooting mode with the lens exposed. As soon as IF closes, the camera also closes and the lens doesn't get as much dust on it.

So, to protect the lens (and, I suppose, to keep IF from interfering with other programs), we shut IF down as soon as we're done with a design.

[J Phipps TN]

I also close the IF after each use, and the camera shuts off.

Everyday,
I shut down the computer and re-start every morning. I do have to turn the camera on the first time I start the IF. (I use a very long piece of moulding to push the botton on the camera) It's so funny to say we are the area's "1st High Tech Framing Gallery' and to be turning my camera on with a stick!:party:

I only have to do it the first thing when I turn the computer on though. The rest of the day it turns off and on with the IF.

[j Paul]

Same problem this morning when I came in. Called Tech Support and Matt was unaware of this ongoing problem but helpful as he could be. He took notes and was going to talk to Steve & Dani and see if they could sort out the problems that many seem to be having. Will wait for a soloution (hopefully soon) At least I know now to check and go thru a reboot each morning instead of having the program be locked up when I try to use it with a customer (very embarassing)

[Baer Charlton]

this is probably a really stupid question... because when I ask, it's usually my dense side that's asking and the other is asleep....

And this applies to all preview/visualize set-ups... they all rely on a camera that is not made to be on for extended periods of time.

Why not use a web-cam that is made for 24/7 and just capture a frame?

If I have to crawl up and shut down to cycle my camera even once in front of a customer.... I'm going to look like an idiot/ or worse, incompetent......

I know you can blame everything wrong in the world on the computer.... but in the end, it's the loose nut between the keyboard and the floor. and the customer on some subliminal level will hold that nut accountable.:icon11:

[j Paul]

but in the end, it's the loose nut between the keyboard and the floor. and the customer on some subliminal level will hold that nut accountable.:icon11:


...that's right, we got this high tech stuff, that doesn't work right.


I don't know about a web cam Baer, there were only certain camera models that were supported by IF, and I would imagine a web cam is not a good enough camera.

Last year when everyone was setting up their new system (Jim, Mike and others) it was discussed and concluded that it was much better to have a hot outlet installed in the ceiling and to leave the camera on 24/7. If the fix is as easy as turning the camera's power off, I can easily rewire and drop a switch at counter height to do that.

[WizSteve]

Will wait for a soloution (hopefully soon) At least I know now to check and go thru a reboot each morning instead of having the program be locked up when I try to use it with a customer (very embarassing)

Yeah, I'm looking into that now and I believe I have a solution for the next update...

Why not use a web-cam that is made for 24/7 and just capture a frame?

J Paul is right - most webcams are also made for video, not high quality snap shots. You could probably get a high-end webcam that might work, but then for a little bit more you can get one of the Canon A series cameras..

If I have to crawl up and shut down to cycle my camera even once in front of a customer.... I'm going to look like an idiot/ or worse, incompetent......

That's why I usually recommend the S series over the A series - the S1, S2, and S3 Canons will auto-power on when they connect to the PC. The A series will work just fine, but to turn it on you have to physical push the On button. But there's like a $100 price difference, so..

Baer, next time you're in the neighborhood feel free to stop by... we got a lot of cool features coming out this year that I can show ya.. ;)

[j Paul]

Update,

Every morning the same problem creeps up with a system error.

While waiting for the real fix, I have discovered that if I climb up on my counter every morning and power off the camera, wait a few seconds and turn it back on that the system is good for the day.

Now, just got to remember to wipe off my footprints each day.

Still don't know why this is a problem that started only after 10-11months of use without a problem?

[kra]

jPaul
I have a switched receptacle on my setup and have not had any problems.
Just turn power off to camera with switch beside design counter each afternoon and back on each morning. Is there any way you can install a remote switch for your power outlet?

[Ronny Terbeek]

Update,

Every morning the same problem creeps up with a system error.

While waiting for the real fix, I have discovered that if I climb up on my counter every morning and power off the camera, wait a few seconds and turn it back on that the system is good for the day.

Now, just got to remember to wipe off my footprints each day.

Still don't know why this is a problem that started only after 10-11months of use without a problem?



Ive looked at this thread a couple of times, and might jump in at this point if thats ok?

IMHO, I dont beleive it is really a software issue.


USB Cables are very sensitive to distance, and repeater or signal boosting USB cables are super sensitive to electrical interference also.

For example, The starters in fluorescent lighting will send enough interference when turned on, to knock the camera <-to-> PC connection out of action !

It can be as simple as that, turn the lights on, loose the link between camera and computer.


Laying USB cables alongside mains electrical wiring is a big no no.
Running USB cables over the top of tube/batten type light fixtures is another big no no.

If USB cable have to cross other electrical cables, its best done at right angles.



One last thing we have discovered, and this is only because we actually test all new USB cables before sending any of them out.

Is that USB cables from most all sources all have one thing in common.

Nearly 30% are Faulty in some way, straight out of the packaging.
And a small percentage of good cables can later start becoming problematic.



cheers

[j Paul]

For the last few days I have been turning the camera off and back on and that does seem to take care of it.

However, I went back and read threads from last Jan/Feb06 when alot of us first got the system (Jim Miller John Ranes & others) and there seemed to be a concensus that it was definetly better to run a powered outlet to the camera and leave it on 24/7. So still am trying to understand what the problem is after all of this time.

I wonder is the fact that is has gotten really cold here this last 3-4 weeks and the furnace is running more and that my hot air diffuser is also in the ceiling about 5-6' away. When I climb up to that 10' ceiling there is quite a noticable difference that last 6" or so at the ceiling. Do you think the camera is overheating?

I think I am going to install a wall switch so I can easily power on /off. will install some track halogen on that switched circuit at the same time to better light my area for taking photos. Will let you all know how that works.

[TGFU]

Just an fyi....We are also having these same issues, and we don't have the camera installed on the ceiling. We are taking the pictures from a table top tripod onto our design board. Also....we are using the USB cable that came with our camera. I really think this is more a software issue, than a communication or hardware issue.

[Kirstie]

What camera are you using?
Kirstie

[WizSteve]

Just an fyi....We are also having these same issues, and we don't have the camera installed on the ceiling. We are taking the pictures from a table top tripod onto our design board. Also....we are using the USB cable that came with our camera. I really think this is more a software issue, than a communication or hardware issue.

It may seem like it, but really from my own personal experience Ronny hit the nail on the head. I've tested about 6 or 7 different models of camera on dozens of different computers - some laptops, some straight from Dell, some stock Wizard PCs, and my own personal equipment at home. I can take a camera that's working just fine - can't force a lockup or nothing - and take it to a bottom-line Dell PC and have it crash as soon as I do a quick zoom change. Same camera, same cable, same drivers, same power-supply, just different PC. There's something going on with the USB on some PCs and the next step is to try and analyze the USB bus itself.

Putting the latest software drivers from Canon seemed to fix problems on some computers, so that's why we recommend it. But that's a shot in the dark - the drivers we receive from Canon are a complete "black box" and we have to trust that they are doing their job as well.

That said, I made a change for the next release of IF to fully abstract the camera operation, so if/when the camera fails for whatever reason IF can go merrily right along instead of dying with the camera.

[TGFU]

I'm using the Cannon S2.

Do you know when the next update will be released?

Jim

[J Phipps TN]

You guys will laugh at this but, My camera does not come on when I turn on my computer in the mornings. I have a long stick of moulding that I use to push the little buttom to turn the camera on (so I don't have to climb on the counter)

Is there an easier way to do this everyday? It seems to run smoother if I turn it off every night.

[j Paul]

So even after leaving camera on for 24/7 the previous 10mos or so with not problems I have added a wall switch to easily turn the power on and off to the camera. Will advise on how this works out.

I don't know, but have come to the opinion that perhaps the problem I was experiencing had something to do with the forced air heating system. The problem seems to have come about at the same time as the weather turned really cold and the furnace ran more ofter. There is a noticable increase in the air temp at the ceiling than at even 3-4ft lower.

As long as I was adding a wall switch to control outlet camera was plugged in at, I took the time to also add 3 halogen floods over design counter and so are also switched. Benefit is that my colors are reproducing better in IF now.

My setting are: Tunsten / Evaluative/ +1/3 / Auto , I have a neutral gray counter surface and putting out a pure white card and 3 primary mat colors I am getting the best color rendition that I have had prior to this.

[dougj]

We are still having the same problem with lockup.
We keep our heat fairly low 60 62 on thermostat so I know that heat is not our prob. Am going to try new USB cables. Seems we have had this problem from day one and it seems to have gotten worse, to the point where we are getting shy and FRUSTRATED about using it in front of customers.
Hope someone can find a solution sooooooon

[Ronny Terbeek]

Hi All,

I know this has been mentioned before, along with a lot of other suggestions.

But the vital secret in keeping it all working may have been missed or forgotten by some.

1/ Power to camera must stay on all the time.
2/ Only start visualisation software when you need to use it (this will OPEN the camera & connect it to the computer, ie camera lense will open)
3/ Exit visualisation when not in use !!! (this will close the camera to computer connection, ie camera lense will close)

Stick to these simple rules , and that will keep things working problem free.


You will ONLY have problems if you leave the software and the camera OPEN for prelonged periods of time.

If you are strictly following the 3 simple rules above, and still having problems, then it is the USB leads or electrical interference that is at fault.


cheers

[Kirstie]

Hi All,

I know this has been mentioned before, along with a lot of other suggestions.

But the vital secret in keeping it all working may have been missed or forgotten by some.

1/ Power to camera must stay on all the time.
2/ Only start visualisation software when you need to use it (this will OPEN the camera & connect it to the computer, ie camera lense will open)
3/ Exit visualisation when not in use !!! (this will close the camera to computer connection, ie camera lense will close)

Stick to these simple rules , and that will keep things working problem free.


You will ONLY have problems if you leave the software and the camera OPEN for prelonged periods of time.

If you are strictly following the 3 simple rules above, and still having problems, then it is the USB leads or electrical interference that is at fault.


cheers
The Canon S1 camera has a lens cap, not an opening and closing cover, so the camera would be "on" and ready all the time. We are still wrestling with the set up for the IF, which is now at the shop. It works great , but we haven't hung it up on the track yet, haven't added the active USB cords, etc.

[dougj]

Ok I got a active usb cable, hooked it to computer and camera cable.
The cable is run directly from camera to computer not any where near any other cables or power. First customer IT LOCKED UP.:fire: :mad: :icon45: :help:

[BILL WARD]

"Laying USB cables alongside mains electrical wiring is a big no no.
Running USB cables over the top of tube/batten type light fixtures is another big no no."
Ronny, is there a shielded USB cable that can work?(if not , WHY NOT?). If not, is there a 'safe' distance??(most shops wont have much choice where the cables get run so distance may be their only salvation should this prove to be the problem child)

"Nearly 30% are Faulty in some way, straight out of the packaging.
And a small percentage of good cables can later start becoming problematic"
(you're just full of jolly news!!!!!!) any 'good' way to test them BEFORE stringing them all over the ceilings(other than hooking them up and running the aps)????

[Ronny Terbeek]

Hi Bill.
First off, I better mention I am no expert on USB leads.
I only know from experience what makes these blighters NOT work.

Shielded leads seem to have the same problems, so I don't think the shielding works that well.


To test a USB extension lead, just plug it straight into the computer USB port with nothing connected to the other end of the lead.

A really bad lead will show a problem message at the bottom right of the screen soon after plugging in.

Some leads will report (generic USB is working, sometimes this is a clue that things are not quite right)

Some leads nicely report the type/brand of lead is working, (this is better)

A lead can appear to be ok, (message bottom right will say something like USB is connected and ready to use).
Good, you think, and go ahead connecting the camera, followed with the message (Camera is installed and ready to use)

HOWEVER,
The connection will lock up the minute an application using it sends some decent data through the lead.

A typical example is (live view finder) where a lot of data is continually sent through the cable, will eventually lock up an application, sometimes right away.

So what appears to be a good lead, can turn out to be faulty when data is being sent through it.

You can put leads near electricals, however, the neater everything is, the better it will behave.

A mass of jumbled wires and a USB lead in amoungst it can expect problems.

If you have to run USB ext's over mains electric wires, then do it at 90 degree right angles.

Someone mentioned ferrite rings, and these can help from what I heard, but I have no experience with these on USB leads.

In short, test USB leads, camera control software, etc, before doing the final permanent installing.

If it works well for a few days, then do the proper install.

If after the proper install, things start to play up, then it will be more obvious where to look for the problems.


I may just mention again.
Regardless of the S2 or S3 not having lense covers, the rule still applies.
Not using visualisation software, then close any camera control software.

leaving the camera to PC control link active (ie, software running that controls a camera) for long periods is asking for problems.



DISTANCE, USB only works over short distances.
The max USB cable length is 5m or around 15ft

You can string a maximum 5 x 15 ft active cables to cover a distance of 75ft.
Fine for some applications, but with digital cameras, I see problems once we start hitting 3 leads.

I've not been able to string 5 leads together and have them keep working for any period of time.

ULTIMATELY, test the complete setupfor a period of time before the final install.

I dont know of any tests on leads other than in the enviroment/application they are being used.


A quick list of things Ive discovered to cause problems.
Large heating and cooling units.
Flourescent lighting being turned on.
Flickering lights.
Fridges.
Trams.
Thunderstorms.
Compressors turning on.
Large double mitre saws being turned on.

&......this one you gonna love,
here, the electricity companies send pulses down the lines at around 12.15 am to trigger the hot water systems into overnight energy saving mode.

I guess just about anything can and will cause a problem, some are luckier than others and have no problems.

How this applies in the USA I cant really tell you, as here our A/C mains electricity works on 240volts , not 110v as you have there in the U.S.
So most of what I am saying may just not be the case.


ONE LAST THING,
Even with all these problems, the visualisation tecnology is a great thing, and if conection to camera is kept as short as possible in distance, and time, it works very very well and I for one love it.

cheers.

[hangupsgallery]

I may have missed it in the conversation, but does anyone know what the maximum distance you can run a USB cable before you lose performance? We're trying to work out the cable routing from Camera to Computer without using a pole in the middle of the design counter.

Also, is anyone using wireless USB system?

Steve

[WizSteve]

I may have missed it in the conversation, but does anyone know what the maximum distance you can run a USB cable before you lose performance? We're trying to work out the cable routing from Camera to Computer without using a pole in the middle of the design counter.

Also, is anyone using wireless USB system?


Standard USB cables: about 15 feet
Active USB cables: daisy-chained up to about 80 feet
CAT5 USB adapter: about 150 feet

And Cliff has a thread here about the new Belkin wireless USB hub: http://thegrumble.com/showthread.php?t=24184