Dueling BB's

[ERIC]

Disclaimer: This is NOT trick photography.

I went to a town on the other side of the county and found this. AC Moore has been there for 10 years and Michaels just opened in July.

WHAT !?!?!?!

[Baer Charlton]

Now THATS funny. Thanks Eric.

[j Paul]

AC Moore must not have had a very good lease agreement or that would have never been allowed.

Even my little store has an option in my lease that if the large anchor space was ever released to a competitor that I can break my lease without liability.

[Baer Charlton]

That is the funniest part John, which is the anchor?

[ERIC]

I forgot to mention that AC Moore added a custom framing counter the same month that Michaels opened AND they BOTH are running non-stop "50% off entire order" promo's.

[Mike Labbe @ GTP]

We have the same here in Warwick, RI. A large Michaels superstore and a brand new Jo Anns superstore that share the same building. (with a furniture store in between) AC Moore is just down the street, too.

Mike

[nancyg]

Eric
I KNOW! I couldn't believe my eyes when that was going in. AND, just across the parking lot is a JO-Anns!
I can't help but giggle when I leave AC and walk the 20 paces to M's.......and wonder 'who has what the other doesn't?'

Well, they keep their corner samples nice and neat.

Smile Away
N

[Bill Henry-]

which is the anchor?

Neither. It’s probably a Domino’s Pizza.

[J Phipps TN]

I hope this means that the framing industry is growing so big that it can sustain that kind of thing!


Have you seen any effect of this on your business? My business grew when Hobby Lobby opened here.

I think business breads business and we need more people to understand what framing really is. Our lack of education to the public is our biggest problem!

Maybe it's a good thing!

[Jay H]

It's not uncommon for restaurants to locate near each other on purpose. They support each other. Maybe the same is true here.

[Patrick Leeland]

Eric where is that? What town in Nueva York? That has got to be a blast when they accept competitors coupons. A customer could be a smart butt and run back and forth all day till they got free framing.


This is an odd one. AC Moore must have a poo-poo lease. What an eye opener. I wonder how much each does in custom framing? And i wonder who the closest frame shop is, is it Eric? I wonder if their sales would go up in the area of fixing problems, and fitting already maated stuff, and posters?


Makes you think


PL

[Val]

Maybe the folks that bought Michael's awhile back also bought AC Moore and no-one knows about it......Like Michael's and Aaron Brothers are owned by the same company.

[ERIC]

It is in Middletown NY 10940. It is 30-40 min. drive from me. I know of just one independent in Middletown. There are a few framers in the smaller towns in the region. Middletown has become a retail/mall/BB mega zone. So the biggest portion of the growth in housing stock is in that part of the county.

I have very few customers from that area. However, they are very good ones that grew tired of the chain and local framers and found me by reputation.

I was so weirded out by the site of the signage that I had to go into one just to convince myself that they weren't connected on the inside. AC Moore sends everything out to someplace way upstate, the kid thought is was by Buffalo or by the Canadian border.

Here is an odd fact about AC Moore - one of the owners of the company lives 10 minutes from me. Strange enough is that Newburgh has a Micheals . . . . but no AC Moore.

[ERIC]

It's not uncommon for restaurants to locate near each other on purpose. They support each other. Maybe the same is true here.

As I was standing in the parking lot, also seeing the JoAnn's fabric . . . that very thought came to me.

Are we going to start seeing the clustering of competing BB's and chains? From what Mike said, this is not new. But I can't help but question the effectiveness of having such a large degree of overlap in inventory and services . . . right next door!

[Richard Darling]

Home Depot and Lowes do it all the time. Our Home Depot arrived about 2 years ago. Lowes just built their place and where do you think it is? That's right - directly across the street from HD.

[Patrick Leeland]

That is true about grouping together. In many areas you have Starbucks across the street from Cosi or Cariboo Coffee, you have Walgreens next to Rite Aid or one of the other pharmacy places. Walmart around the corner from Target. Actually down the Street in the same strip there is a Best Buy four doors down from a Circuit City.

Middletown? That is funny.

So would this work with frame shops? I mean these places are offering the same quality for about the same price. What is the advantage of this? Are these hot beds for money? Is it an awareness thing? By hammering that there are two of these places next to each other that makes people feel like they need what is in this store? I am not sure why this would be good, somebody tell me.


PL

[PaulSF]

It actually makes sense, maybe not for Michaels and AC Moore, but from a development perspective. Think of animals congregating at a water hole. The more animals that drink, the less water there is, but that's where the water hole is. The mall developer is going to site the mall where the demographics dictate -- the optimal level of homes and purchasing power, etc. And companies like Michaels, AC Moore, Jo Anns, Circuit City, Best Buy -- they don't build the malls, so they have to go where the malls go. Which just happens to be where their desired customers are. So if Michaels finds that a particular location is desirable, it's highly likely that AC Moore would find the same location desirable, too. The question for us is this -- is that location desirable for a craft store, or for a framing store?

[ERIC]

"Middletown? That is funny."

I take it you've been there!

[JackBingham,CPF]

Here in Lancaster at the Lancaster Shopping Center we have AC Moore, Michaels and now a Corners across the street.

Jack

[Cliff Wilson]

OK, it's been a while since I did my research, but I recall two different instances where frame shops reported significant increases in business when another one located very close. I have noticed more art sales since an artist opened retail space nearby. I believe "creating a destination" could well be a positive move.

This could be particularly useful if there were "niche expertise" that differed.

I can see how the "commodity" stuff like the crafts would be a big win. It isn't quite as clear with the framing, but maybe that tells you where the framing is on their priority list!

[J Phipps TN]

I would love to know what percentage of framing the BB's do in comparison to the merchandise sales. Does anybody have any idea?

It would have to be significant in order for then to continue.

MAybe we should move next to each other.

Could it be like the flower district or the fashion district in New York?

[PaulSF]

At the Michaels near me, the floor space devoted to framing is maybe 15% of the total selling floor. And that 15% includes all their ready-mades and accessories.

[Val]

When I worked there, if I remember correctly, the daily goal was 10% framing sales to store sales. Didn't mean we always made that, but that is what they expected.....

[Jay H]

Our Home Depot opened about a block from Lowes.

My latest location is next door to a real art gallery that focuses on local artist. Looking at my bare walls I can tell you that it has certinaly affected my preframed art sales. I just hope they have noticed an increase as well.

[David N Waldmann]

I would love to know what percentage of framing the BB's do in comparison to the merchandise sales. Does anybody have any idea?

According to Michaels' annual report, custom framing was 17% of total revenue during 2005. FYI, this translates to an average of $697,000 per store in those locations where they have been open more than 3 years. Interestingly enough, that 17% is down from 19% in the previous two years.

Spending an hour or two perusing their annual report (http://www.michaels.com/art/online/static?page=corp_annualreports)may be almost as interesting as the latest thriller, and probably a lot more profitable.

[Emibub]

Heck, when I worked at the brand new shiny new Super Duper Michael's we were expected to do 30% of the stores sales. Not all the stores had such lofty goals but we were in a high income bracket area and it was the first really big Michael's in the area. That was many years ago though............

[Patrick Leeland]

Eric I have a friend that lived somewhere around there. She mentioned Middletown. I don't think she lives there anymore. I believe that she moved closer to the city. I went up that way this past fall for her wedding, but that was on the Hudson. Somewhere north of Newburgh, at a vineyard!?


PL

[Ruth Yheulon, CPF]

We have several shopping centers within shopping centers. One parking lot leads to another and another and so on and on.... Any way we have a JoAnne Super store in one parking lot, a Michaels in the adjoining parking lot and The Great Indoors in the parking lot behind both of those parking lots. There is an independent framer 1 mile south of there, one a mile east of there with another Michaels about 4 miles northeast of there.
Ruth

[PaulSF]

According to Michaels' annual report, custom framing was 17% of total revenue during 2005. FYI, this translates to an average of $697,000 per store in those locations where they have been open more than 3 years. Interestingly enough, that 17% is down from 19% in the previous two years.

Spending an hour or two perusing their annual report (http://www.michaels.com/art/online/static?page=corp_annualreports)may be almost as interesting as the latest thriller, and probably a lot more profitable.

David, is that $697,000 figure total revenue per store, or your estimate of framing revenue per store? I have a hard time believing the Michael's near me is doing that much framing each year (that's about 7000 of those $100 framing jobs)!

[susang]

Here in Langhorne, Bucks County, PA Michaels and AC Moore share the same wall in their strip mall. JoAnns is a short distance away also. Go figure...

Susan
Whispering Woods Gallery
Holland, PA

[ERIC]

"on the Hudson. Somewhere north of Newburgh, at a vineyard!? "

That would be Milton or Marlboro. Some great places there.

[Cretin75]

Hey, newbie here.

We have almost the samething going on at the location I'm at. Currently I'm the Framing Specialist (ooooooooh ahhhhhhh) at JoAnns (meh, it works for now, the health insurance is good) and in the complex behind us there's a Michaels (used to work for them too, I'm in for punishment). Both mine and their complexes are new. Lowes is next to us and Home Depot is going next to Michaels.

[Rebecca]

I think Jennifer and Jay have the right idea - "districts" can really create destination shopping where all benefit. Anyone ever been to NYC's button and trim district??? Heaven : )

Rebecca

[David N Waldmann]

David, is that $697,000 figure total revenue per store, or your estimate of framing revenue per store? I have a hard time believing the Michael's near me is doing that much framing each year (that's about 7000 of those $100 framing jobs)!
Average revenue per store (again, open more than three years) is 4.1 mil. 17% relates to national totals.

Just remember, averages are.....averages. Some are doing less. Some are doing more!

[Val]

Hey Cretin75, welcome to the Grumble! You're a framer, you've gotta frame where you can, learn what you can and if/when the time is right, leave what you don't want behind.

Many of us here on the G are former and/or current BB framers.....but we're still framers!! We're glad to have you on board, and hope you'll stick around and share.

[Patrick Leeland]

Eric i think Marlboro sounds familiar, we stayed in Poughkeepsie and took a bridge over to the area. It is a vineyard/catering place. I think they were a vineyard that has found more money in holding parties. So I think now it is more parties. I am not sure if they are still in procduction or not. But we did go and have a sip at BenMarl. They were great wines. The gent actually gave us a personal tour of the wine making facility. I think we got six bottles there as well as some neat wine stuff. I think they are the oldest vineyard in the US, while down the street in Brotherhood Winery, the oldest winery. They were allowed to make wine during prohibition, because it was for the churches. That is if my mind remembers what he saids.

We were not able to get to BrotherHood, it was a later on Saturday and they were closed. So maybe another visiit is in order in the spring?

PL

[Cretin75]

Hey Cretin75, welcome to the Grumble! You're a framer, you've gotta frame where you can, learn what you can and if/when the time is right, leave what you don't want behind.

Many of us here on the G are former and/or current BB framers.....but we're still framers!! We're glad to have you on board, and hope you'll stick around and share.

Thanks. My name is Amy btw.. I'll add it to my sig hahaha. I've been lurking for some time now and finally joined in. I know where to go when I have an odd project.

:)