Suggestions for joining Roma Tabacchino .....

[Framerguy]

I have a question for you Roma users. How do you join the Tabacchino line of moulding in your underpinners? I have a Euro 9009 and the back fence will make an indentation in the moulding if I join the legs directly in the underpinner. The 606 profile will fit in my underpinner OK but, when I apply the clamp to hold the moulding against the fence, it (the fence) will leave a mark along the back side of the moulding.

The 601 profile won't even fit into my underpinner because of the extreme slope of the outside of the moulding. I have checked each of these by trying to clamp the moulding sample in the underpinner and I need to work out a solution for this problem before I begin to show these mouldings. The obvious one is to order chop & join but I would like to avoid that if possible.

So any suggestions for padding the fence or building a jig to keep the steel fence away from the surface of the moulding would be appreciated. I will call Roma on this matter but they won't be open until after the first of the year so I decided to come to the REAL source of information.

Thanks for your input.

[Steven6095]

Not trying to be sarcastic, but order joined and let Roma figure it out :)

[Jim Miller]

Tom, can you reduce air pressure enough to stop the fence marks and still drive the fasteners? Also, especially with very soft wood, it helps to have separate pressure adjustments for the frontal and vertical clamps. Could you refit your machine with that extra pressure adjustment?

I've used 1/2" x 6" strips of 4-ply scrap matboard to line the fences on underpinners, as well as miter vices, for years. They eliminate scuffs, and when they get gobbed with oozed glue, we just replace them.

Some of our clamp pads are covered with felt, and others with vinyl, so we can select both the shape (round, triangle, or L-shape) and softness most suitable for the moulding at hand. The double vertical clamp on our machine eliminates a lot of problems with troublesome profiles, too.

[BILL WARD]

what about going to the auto store(maybe HD?) and getting some foam tape--adhesive on 1 side(it's not tooo agressive so should pull off easily enough). pad the rails--it's not thick enough to cause you much grief with being uneven.

or get/cut some stips of felt & adhere to fences w/atg--done carefully, they shouldnt give you trouble with being uneven, either. this would actually be easier than foam tape(thinner & more 'stable')

[Patrick Leeland]

This is thier best selling line ever...is is because they make a ton of money joining the frames??? I hat eot say it, but leave it to them along with those circle looking things.


PL

[PaulSF]

Maybe this is what all that shredded newspaper is for? You can use it for confetti when you get it joined well!

[danny boy]

Paul,
The shredded newsprint is for the Evergreen Slugs, they love it...
Framerguy,
I used a biscuit joiner on the Roma Tobbachino moulding, might have been over kill but fit nicely and no marks... Soft wood will do it to you everytime...

[dougj]

I think you are safer to stay away from v nailers as these mouldings do well in them.
What I have done with these mouldings ,cut 4 pieces of flat square moulding about 6 to 8 inches long. Drill 2 holes in each that any screw long enough will go through and into the Roma. Screw these to the bottom of the Roma near (about 1/2 inch away) the mitre and even with rabbit so you can clamp the 6 inch pieces into a vice and glue the Roma together and brad nail the corners. Save the flat prices to use again.

[wpfay]

Get thee a Hoffmann dovetailer. Really.

Both Roma and Picture Woods have created lines that your really can't join with conventional vises or v-nailers (well you could do away with the bed clamp on the Euro and hand clamp instead), and the strap clamps etc are pretty worthless as well.
Biscuit joining is a good idea, but you still have to clamp while drying, and Doug's idea works, but is a lot of extra effort...
I've got one of the wide scoop (60610) mouldingd to do. I'm planning on using the Hoffmann...I'll let you know how it turns out.

[Dave]

I wouldn't know about a v-nailer, but Larson's Isabella 540503, 540504 and 540505 are pretty tricky to join with a corner vise. I was able to do it using foam board scraps in an emergency situation the first time I used it, but have let LJ join them ever since. Beautiful family of mouldings which I enjoy selling. It sure is nice that they deliver!

Dave Makielski

[Baer Charlton]

This is thier best selling line ever...is is because they make a ton of money joining the frames??? I hat eot say it, but leave it to them along with those circle looking things.


PL

I fought with them both... then stripped the whole line from the wall. Figured that if we were going to go retro back to the bad-ol-days.. I didn't need the grief. I'd rather display more Griffen and make a better mark-up.;)

[AWG]

Tom - after fighting with the extreme angles on some of those profiles we decided (in the spirit of maintaining marital bliss AND a quality corner) to let Roma do it...

BTW the Tabacacino line is our #1 dollar producer from Roma this year - GREAT stuff

Tony

[Dave]

Now there there, Baer...I sense the salesman in you coming out! So just how good a price do you get on Garret?

:D

Dave Makielski

P.S. I'll judge the speediness of your recovery by how ornery your response is!

[Baer Charlton]

Dave, Garrett is hardwoods.... but for nice fancy older looking stuff, we go for Griffen's stuff. And since you asked, Phillip has great price point that allows for some extra bump and a little flourish with the spay can or brush.

[Framerguy]

Tom - after fighting with the extreme angles on some of those profiles we decided (in the spirit of maintaining marital bliss AND a quality corner) to let Roma do it...

BTW the Tabacacino line is our #1 dollar producer from Roma this year - GREAT stuff

Tony

That was my thought also, Tony, but I am already at a very high price point with the chop price and I am not wanting to bomb the line with a sky high price for C&J plus the added shipping cost for freighting in large frames that are already joined. I am just guessing at this but I don't have delivery from Roma down here on the Panhandle and trucking a 4'X6' frame would be very expensive just for freight!!

These customers we have down here are very wealthy but even they have a top end that they don't want to go over on framing and I am afraid that something like a $3000 frame to house a $500 beveled mirror may be more than they want to spend. We do a gob of large beveled mirror frames and large originals. (over 48"X72" is common through our gallery) and many people don't even ask price, they want a finished look for their 8000 sq. ft. shacks or their 12th story 4 bedroom Gulf view condos. But there IS a limit to everything and I am wanting to stay under that limit so we don't lose these good customers to one of the other designers or galleries in the area. We have a solid business and don't want to lose a single person because of ridiculous pricing.

Is Roma giving you a good join on these mouldings? I would really like to know what they are doing to make joining those unique profiles profitable and trouble free. There has to be a solution to this problem if one were to sit down and think this out.

Tony, are they V-nailing their miters or joining with a dovetailed insert or using something internal like a bisquit? Wally suggested a Hoffman dovetailer and that may be the direction I go if I can't come up with any other option but there IS some kind of solution to joining those mouldings.

As the intro to The X Files says, "The answer is out there."

[TGFU]

I had this same situation last week. I ended up placing a large joined fillet (I acutally just used a corner sample....Larson's Athena fillet) between the fense and the frame. It worked great...beautiful join! No slippage or marks on the frame. Any shallow moulding or large fillet should do the trick.

Hope this helps.

Jim

[jframe]

I glue them in the vise before v-nailing. On the Casese I set the stops but don't use the clamps on the nailer. I only use the back fence as a guide for placement then put 3 nails in the front 2 1/2 inches.

[Terry Hart cpf]

Have you tried their wedge lock system? Only costs a couple bucks & allows you to join them.

[Territ]

.... I'd rather display more Griffen and make a better mark-up.;)

Baer, does Griffen have a website?

[Jerry Ervin]

Tom

If you call Roma, they will patch you through to the warehouse manager in Atlanta. Ask him how they join them. He has been very helpful to me in the past with advice on some of their finishes.

[TessaE]

I glue them in the vise before v-nailing. On the Casese I set the stops but don't use the clamps on the nailer. I only use the back fence as a guide for placement then put 3 nails in the front 2 1/2 inches.

we do the same and have never had any problems.

[Patrick Leeland]

The best thing to do would be to have a wood shop. If you had a good wood shop then you could take the profile and draw out the reverse profile on wood. Then Cut out a piece about 8 inches long, join two pieces of that. Then Put that behind the moulding in the v nailer. This this makes a full piece of wood, without the back cut out, therfore the roma wood has a place to rest. It is much easier to v nail odd shapes this way. I am about 99% sure this is how Roma would do it. If they do this many of these frames, then it would make sense to have a good consistent method set up to handle these frames.

For a regular shop doing 15 a year, maybe wedge locks would be a good idea. Or maybe going to a wood worker and asking them to create something like I suggested would be an option. This could be done in an hour and cheap, it does not need to be finished or out of high end wood, simple for them to do.

PL

[Emibub]

Baer, does Griffen have a website?

I shouldn't speak for Baer but I do believe he means "Gryphon" moulding. He reps for them. Here is their website. http://www.gryphonmoulding.net/

[Pat Murphey]

I am blessed with a local distributor that will special order any Roma at normal chop price, join for a fixed low price and deliver for free.

[Patrick Leeland]

Pat do tell? Who is the distibutor? I thought you only got Roma from Roma, not someone else, but I would love to know who is doing this great job.

PL


Baer get fuzzy after the hospital stays and the long far off wonderful(making me jealous) vacations

[Val]

I also get most Romas from a local distributor, decent prices (chopped and joined if I need it) and free weekly their-truck delivery with orders over $125. Only $7.50 delivery charge under that. I can also get supplies and matbd, glass, etc from them, so I generally "save up" an order until it goes over $125 (doesn't take much!).

Sacramento/No. Nevada area: Delta Mat and Moulding out of Sacramento
Great people there, too.

[Framerguy]

Tom

If you call Roma, they will patch you through to the warehouse manager in Atlanta. Ask him how they join them. He has been very helpful to me in the past with advice on some of their finishes.

Thanks Jerry, I tried that last Friday and got a recording that they were closed until after the 1st. I plan to call them on the 3rd (hey, my boss gave me the 2nd off!!):thumbsup: and I will ask them to do that for me. That's also a good idea for matching finishes for most any moulding company.

Thanks again for the ideas and for all the other suggestions that have been posted here. I appreciate the ideas and will pass on any earth moving ideas I come up with concerning these wild profiles. This has become a personal quest to find some method that I feel comfortable with and can set up in my very limited space. I should note that up to the beginning of this year I ordered all length and very few chops. The difference is the available space I have here and the fact that I am an employee now and not able to make changes at will to accomodate the needs of a frameshop. I venture to say that some of you have bigger bathrooms in your home than the size of my present frameshop!

[Pat Murphey]

Patrick,

Forest Gallery, Great Meadows, NJ - 800-334-0477. They do truck deliveries around Northern NJ. If you are nearby, call and see if you are in range. I negotiated the join pricing (as a long time regular customer) to match LJ's.

[Patrick Leeland]

I had no clue that Roma sold to other people, I thought they sold to the framers, not to distributors. Had absolutely no clue. See that is what I have learned for today. Now I can go to sleep as it will be down hill or overload from here on out.


PL
thanks

[McPhoto]

Tom -
I use a "jig" of ¼ round "corner" that will butt against the fence of our Cassesse underpinner and keeps the moulding from getting marred - I also second Terry Hart's suggestion about having the moulding "wedged"

[Baer Charlton]

I shouldn't speak for Baer but I do believe he means "Gryphon" moulding. He reps for them. Here is their website. http://www.gryphonmoulding.net/

Kathy, I rep for Garrett Moulding. Gryphon (and my mind was on an article I'm working on about Merv's and John Travolta's old DC-3) is correct, and I'll tout their moulding because I believe in it. . . . and I consider Phillip LaMarsh to be a good friend, and a great chip off his granddads block of fine moulding. :thumbsup:

But I understand your confussion because of Gryphon's support of the Colorado class.

carry on./