agt Tape - the tape you love to hate

[RozR]

Is it just me or do you love/hate atg tape!?

I think it is so easy to use. But so difficult to remove.

Everytime I have to reopen a frame project - that either I have done or someone else - it's the biggest pain in the bucket....

Especially with a dust cover of kraft paper - even worse - old kraft paper.

Just thought I would let off steam on this issue. Thankfully it's the worse thing that's happened today! smile.gif

Roz

[GUMBY, GCF]

Roz
That okay to feel that way.
Lets just see if there is a better reason to dislike it and maybe 3M also?
I have had several jobs that I knew exactly how many inches of atg tape it took to complete. ie. 180 16x20 mats taped on the outside edge with ATG this equates to 10 roll of ATG. Wrong, it took almost 11 full rolls. I got curious and dug out my liners out of the trash guess what only about 34 yards on a roll. I know so what's the big deal.
One: it says 36 yards on the box. Two: multiple 2 yds times all the rolls used by frames in a year$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ every 18 rolls equals one whole roll. :mad:
Another one are screw eyes next box you get count it I bet there is not 200 in your box. I learned that one the hard way I sold 1000 (10 boxes) to the Maytag Company one time only to find out that they were shorted 26. :eek:
It all adds up in the big picture.
TAG your it. I feel better too!

[Ron Eggers]

Boy, what a couple of whiners!

You're worried about such petty issues when there are much more serious concerns - like why is there an odd number of Bumpons on a sheet?

[Susan May]

The reason there are an odd number of Bumpons on a sheet is because the other one is stuck to the bottom of your foot! tongue.gif

[PurplePerson]

I can't handle an odd number of bumpons on a sheet. I put the last one away until I get a hole to fill in a new sheet.

I also take bumpons off of my sheet so that the holes make a pattern. I am easily amused.

ATG tape around a frame, doesn't really bug me. It's just part of the job to me. Is there a better way?

[CharlesL]

Originally posted by Ron_Eggers:
You're worried about such petty issues when there are much more serious concerns - like why is there an odd number of Bumpons on a sheet? Ron, ALL my Bumpons have an EVEN number per sheet.
wait....that means that one or more of the frames I put 'em on have....never mind.

[printmaker]

"Is it just me or do you love/hate atg tape!? I think it is so easy to use. But so difficult to remove."

The solution is actually quite simple. :D ...

There are a number of cheap, off-brands of ATG which, not only don't stick well at all but, are extremely easy to remove! ;)

And the best part about these products is that they are "every bit as good as 3M brand". I know this to be true, because the distributors told me so. tongue.gif

[HannaFate]

I usually put the paper on with a line of elmer's glue.

I hate to see atg used (usually by an artist) to attach a piece to a mat. Especially when it sticks to the backing as well. rrrgh!

[ERIC]

Actually these two problems can be combined to make a good solution - when you are opening an old job, rub the ATG tape into a ball big enough to be the extra bumpon you're missing! tongue.gif tongue.gif

[RozR]

Okay - maybe I should have posted this to warped - with the way it is going tongue.gif

It's just a "pet peeve" to deal with removal... I really really like the stuff!

Roz

[Framerguy]

Roz,

Since I am feeling quite sensible this morning (for a change), I will try to give you a sensible tip on the ATG thingy.

We saw a rather new brand of ATG in Atlanta last fall and Markg1 and I bought a case and split it between us. I haven't asked Mark how he likes it but my experience with it so far has been good. It is an ATG that has a surgical carrier "embedded" (that's a clique term nowadays) in it and comes in "acid free" and regular. I have been using it for both attaching mats together and attaching dust covers to the backs of frame packages. In both cases, it seems to work better than 924. It seems to be a more aggresive tape than 924 which means that it should hold for a longer duration. On dust covers, it also holds both black kraft and the Lineco blue paper on the frame on all types of wood. Now some finishes have a residual coating on the back of the moulding that has to be washed off with solvent or UnSeal no matter what ATG tape is used. But the nice thing about this tape is that, if you have to remove the dust cover, you can get it started with the ATG attached to the dust cover and it almost always comes off with the dustcover without leaving that sticky mess on the frame that has to be scraped off. I attribute this to the surgical carrier pulling off all the ATG with it.

I haven't used this tape long enough to know if it is as easy to remove over a period of time but it sure works well in the short term.

The tape is made by UK INdustrial Tapes LTD. and their US base is in Tarzana, CA. Their phone # is 888-355-8214 and they will send out samples of both of their tapes on request.

I cannot vouch for the FACTS standards of this ATG tape but it is very impressive for what you are asking about.

Now about bumpons, why do they call them "bumpons" in the first place. The only application that I can see for this name would be "bumpoffs" when you catch one of them on something and have to replace it! All of my bumpons seem to start out in even numbered sheets. What happens to them after that is truly mystical to me! I always seem to end up with an odd one at the end of the sheet too.

(Is there an application for the sheet full of bumpon holes that is left after that last one is used?) I thought of some kind of mat pattern overlay with them or possibly a kid's occupier in the gallery, maybe. You could also stick them to the soles of your shoes and see which hole that one odd bumpon that you dropped would end up sticking into.

OK, so it wasn't all sensible!

Framerguy

[Kit]

Originally posted by Framerguy:



Is there an application for the sheet full of bumpon holes that is left after that last one is used?
I recently inherited some small bits of equipment from another frame shop. All of the metal rulers had that empty rubber bumpon sheet glued to the back of them.

It's gone now - vigorous scraping with a razor blade got rid of most of it and I washed the residue away with acetone.

Evidently, someone thought this would be a good idea but I hated having rulers that looked like something an octopus had attacked.

Kit

[Jana]

Kit, that sounds like a clever use for the the Bumpon holes.

Unlike Purp, I don't care what pattern the holes make. Nor do I care if I end up with one Bumpon on a sheet. See how we complement each other?

How about a mat design using the Bumpon holes? I wonder what it would look good on. A picture of an octopus?

ATG tape sure beats glue. I've tried using a small amount of white glue to attach the backing paper. It has the potential to make a mess, and it makes the paper pucker.

[Marc Lizer]

Gumby's assertion in the second post on this thread is a pretty stong one.

Too good to pass up.

I asked a local vendor for some assorted rolls to test length.
924 36yd
924 60yd
924 (generic) highland 36yd
924 (generic) highland 60yd
908 af 36yd
969 hithack 18 yd

I have only done one so far(924 36yd), but the results were interesting enough to post.

After using the leader to thread it, I am able to apply exactly 36yds of sticky goo. And the discard carrier measured 36 plus the leader discard carrier of 10 inches.

I have more boards to waste. More results later.

[Emibub]

Originally posted by PurplePerson:
I also take bumpons off of my sheet so that the holes make a pattern. I am easily amused.
Purp, You would have been driven over the edge by me...........when I worked at Michael's several paople there took the bumpons off in a certain pattern. I used to take great glee in using somebody else's bumpon pad and disturbing the pattern. These were actually the best people I had ever had work for me too. They were very posessive of their tools, in fact each had their own box and locked them in their lockers at night. I was the boss so I didn't need my own set of tools so I would borrow from time to time. More than once somebody would whine because I ruined their pattern.

We also had a person there who collected all the Sharpies. You would open her box and find 15 sharpies. She hoarded them, and just had to have them all. She was at a banquet at the Governors mansion with her mother one night and they all had to sign a guest book. She noticed the Sharpie was turquoise. "You should have seen it" she said. She told me it took every ounce of strength she had not to pocket it. I could just see the news. "Minor disturbance at Governor's mansion last night, local framer caught stealing writing implement". I was impressed she had the fortitude to not take it. She was one of the ones who took her bumpons off in a pattern, if she ever knew I deliberately pulled them off randomly, there would have been a lynching.

[Marc Lizer]

In that case, I hope she does not read The Grumble. :eek:

[CharlesL]

I use the deep, clear, plastic, 3M bumpons, and I counted today. They're 56 bumpons per sheet....
Now, if framers use French-made bumpons, who knows how many are on a sheet??? Besides, they'd surrender before you ever got a chance to use them, anyway.

By the way, I've never had the clear 3M bumpons come off a frame. If one has to be opened, for any reason, pulling the bumpon off will ALWAYS pull the backing off with it.

[ 03-25-2003, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: CharlesLowry. ]

[MarkG1]

Now some finishes have a residual coating on the back of the moulding that has to be washed off with solvent or UnSeal no matter what ATG tape is used. Framerguy,

Let me know the mouldings you are refering to.

Also, have you noticed that the tape we bought, The rolls are smaller than the 3m rolls?

I like the overall quality of the tape, so I guess that makes up for the length. The intitial tack of the tape is great.

Mark

[Framerguy]

Mark,

The tape is made in the UK and, therefore, is a metric roll. (30 meters). The "acid free" tape, which would equate to 3M Gold, is priced at $2.53 per roll vs. $2.65 per roll (quantity of 72 rolls) for 3M so it is priced about the same. The kicker is that surgical carrier that makes removal much easier. And it seems like the tape is more aggressive than 3M Gold while still being easier to get off the frame back should the need arise.

Yes, Mark, the storage charges are really mounting up on that choroplast! My head framer keeps falling over the boxes and kicking them really hard when he does. He has kicked a hole through the top box but I don't think that the bottom box is involved ............... yet.

Regarding certain mouldings with ATG sticking problems, I find that some of the LJ mouldings that are made overseas have a primer or sometimes a coating of gesso on the back edge of the moulding and it has a tendency to release the ATG when you go to apply the dust cover. I simply wash that dry material off the surface of the frame and it seems to stop the problem.

Framerguy

P.S. I had a long talk with Jan. A. today at LJ about our shipping charges for UPS and he is going to try (after all these years) to get us a break on freight charges. He said possibly free freight on $100 or more. Can you believe that after all the time and trouble we had trying to get some concessions out of Mark N.??

I DID include you in the discussion so whatever I get, you will probably get also. (You better hope they don't decide it would be easier to just drop me as a customer!! :eek: )

[RevBev]

I once worked with a woman who gleefully recalled how the staff in her previous job had presented the owner with an ATG booger the size of a baseball, built up over months. I tried to picture the boss's "shock and awe" as she had to ask herself which cost her more: the wasted material (3-M ain't ever cheap) or the wasted labor.