Discontinued items

[nona powers]

Selling something only to find it's been discontinued is a pain for every framer and very irritating. In the past we carried all the stock we sold so disconinued things didn't matter, when we ran out of something we took it out of the line. Now we rely on the distributor to fill our needs and sometimes when we've chosen that perfect board or frame and it isn't available, it is maddening, BUT, it is a necessary part of being a manufacturer.

In order to keep up with the latest styles and trends, manufacturers spend a lot of money trying to be current with customer needs. Distributors can and will only carry so many selections from a company so something has to go for new stuff
to come in. I teach classes at Colorado Moulding in Denver and you would be amazed at how much warehouse space is taken up with matboard. She, the owner, has to carry two lines to keep framers happy. Some framers want three lines. The profit margin on matboard, from what I understand is not that large for the distributor, that's why there are so few full line distributors. The money is in the moulding.

Also, things are introduced that framers don't buy. Innovation is necessary to our profession in order to keep customers coming in to change
matboard, frames, etc. New looks, new materials, but sometimes framers don't respond to an introduction and it's discontinued. In the case of matboard, sometimes sources dry up for pulp, coloring agents, glues, or standards change and adjustments have to be made.

It is very expensive to make a new product introduction because there are component parts that must be developed and refined. I'm an Education Consultant for Bainbridge so I know the new AlphaLinens introduced by them took a lot of development to introduce to the line. I want to save time and if I can use a premounted fabric product that is totally safe for all art, and I don't have to hand wrap fabric anymore,
then I want to use it. The AlphaLinens are safe but it took time, research and testing to make sure all elements of the board met all standards. That's just one example. It costs companies a lot of money to introduce new things but I sure hope they keep doing it.

Companies do need to communicate with us when something has been discontinued. Bainbridge lists on their website in the Framers Corner section, the complete list of discontinued items. A notice is also included with all new product shipments. I'm sure Crescent has their discontinued products on their website also.

Nona Powers, CPF, GCF
www.nonapowers.com (http://www.nonapowers.com)

[Dermot]

Nona

Thank you for your input on the distributors world, having spent most of my working life involved in distribution (test and laboratory equipment and supplies) and I owned for some time a small picture framing glass business in Ireland I have always had a soft spot for distributors most distributors in any given industry that I have come across in my time try their VERY best.

Distribution is getting more difficult as time goes on, we all want instant service nowadays, just a few weeks ago one of the oldest framing supply business in the British Isles shut their Dublin branch they could not get the numbers to work, they were also the longest established of the three distributors in the area with the most loyal customer base.

I for one will no longer finalise a design until I know all the components are available, I’m lucky none of my customers mind this but it can add to the time and effort required to complete an order.

I’m looking at what education I can take when I’m in New York and hopefully I can take your class, one of the areas I feel I’m quite weak in is in design I do my best but I feel I could improve quite a bit with the right coaching.

[MerpsMom]

Nona, thinking of you "in-training" for much of anything in the industry is somewhat odd. Good to see you back on TG. smile.gif aka Cathie

[nona powers]

I didn't remember I had signed up for The Grumble at one time. By the number, it looks like I did it a long time ago. You'll laugh, but I'm using it becasue it's with a password I can remember. Does anyone else think this passwrd thing has gotten out of hand? Passwords for everything. I couldn't get my messages out of my cell phone cause I couldn't figure out how to set up a pssward to put in when I got a call. I'd just about get through the set up when I'd do something wrong and have to start over. I set up my cable system and the guy gave me a passward that no matter what I did I could not remember. Had to call one night, on hold forever. The passwrd was passwrd. Oh well....thanks for welcoming me.

Nona Powers, CPF, GCF
www.nonapowers.com (http://www.nonapowers.com)

[JRB]

As a retailer who has a small operation and only one employee. I find it extreamly inconvienent to have to stop whatever I am doing and start fliping through mat samples looking for discontinued items. It's not so bad when you get a list of five or ten items, but more than that turns it into a major labor project.

Several years ago I recieved in the mail from Bainbridge, a list of over two hundred items that had been dicontinued. I showed the list to the Bainbridge factory rep. when he came in and asked where the Bainbridge samples were. He gave me this enthusiastic speech about inovation and new product. I told him I was sick of selling product I could no longer get and I have opted to go with more stable lines like Crescent and Tru-Vue.

I know this leaves me in the backwater as far as "hot, new, trends " are concerned. I feel awfull about it every time I make a sale, knowing full well I will be able to get my matboards.

I do not miss the discontinued line of Bainbridge boards one iota. It was at the point where I could not even get an up to date set of samples directly from Bainbridge. I recieved a brand new set that had over 10% of the boards discontinued. Those people are discontinuing at such a pace, their own factory can't keep up with it.

I personaly think the Bainbridge product is great, and if I ever get a computer controled store, the kind the factory keeps updated, I may put the line back in. I'm not all that big on computeres at the sales counter though.

John

[nona powers]

It's odd to think we are talking on the internet when we are in the same town.

Crescent doesn't change their rag line much, but they have introduced lots of specialty type boards the last few years. I don't know if they've discontinued much or not, I only use Bainbridge becasue I want the Artcare.

Miller pledged to the distributor that they would always have just a certain number of boards. They don't put a lot of new things in or they have to take a lot of old stuff out. Their line is pretty stable for that reason.

Bainbridge is concentrating on C/P, conservation/preservation materials more than decorative, so that's where the innovation has come in. I love the new stuff, but certainly understand what you mean about discontinued boards and how aggravating it can be. I go through my specifier and mark the boards that are discontinued and take the sample out of my rack as soon as I get the notice. Usually there aren't that many boards discontinued at once, but they keep them on the list for awhile to make sure the framer has been notified.

If you looked at some of the stuff they've come out with the last couple of years, and most with Artcare, I sure couldn't do without them but, to each his own.

Nona Powers, CPF, GCF
www.nonapowers.com (http://www.nonapowers.com)

[JRB]

Nona, you are without a doubt, THE most respected framer in San Diego. I do not presume to even try to suggest to you that you are wrong, you are not.
Like I said, Bainbridge is an excellent line of boards, I just don't have the time to try and keep up with it. I still order some of their product by the box to keep in stock. I like their Artcare mount board, so I stock it by the box.

I don't travel much except on my bike, so it actually is easier to comunicate on the internet.

I wish I had stoped into your old La Mesa shop and met you in your environment, while I was still driving, I blew that one.

Be glad when The Grumble gets spell check again,

John

[Jana]

John, have you seen some of the newer Bainbridge specialty mats? They are beautiful and versatile.
Some of my favorites are:

Victorian Cameo 878559
Lunar Grey 7512
Woodland Path 8148
Garden Walk 8146
Winter Trail 8144
Olive Grove 8147

There are lots more.

I think it's important to have a large selection of materials to offer our customers. I would miss Bainbridge mats if we didn't sell them.

Why don't you like computers at the sales counter? :confused: The computer usually tells if a matboard is discontinued. And it makes retail life easier in general.

[JRB]

Jana, I've been selling custom framing for over 37 years. I am comfortable doing it the old way, and I think my customers are as well. Computers at the sales counter just seem cold and impersonal. I think people are sick of being a statistic on a hard drive. Every place you shop now, gets you entered into a data bank. I do have a card swiper though.

To succesfully sell a framing job, you do not need every fad mat that's out there. You need to learn to listen to your customers, have a good sense of design, know the mechanics of constructing a frame, and have a basic understanding of interior design. More than anything else though, is being able to focus on your mission, to frame the picture.

A good framing job should be noticed well after the object being framed has been thoroughly marveled at. Or, for example, if a customer brought in ten pictures to be framed in your shop and gave you a budget of one million dollers for the project. After your through salivatating all over yourself, you start the project. Three months later you complete it and call the customer. The customer shows up with a group of friends. You bring the pictures out for inspection and stand proudly by as the customer and friends oh and ah over the framing, they have never in their lives seen such beautiful picture frames. The praise is endless, they go on and on about the frames. What that means is, absolutly, every picture is framed totaly wrong. Had you done your job correctly, they would have been oh-ing and ah-ing about the pictures, not the frames.

You don't need all the fancy matting to frame a picture, it just makes it easier to make a sale, that's all. We have a lot of cutsy mats from Crescent and Tru Vue, it is very rare when I will use them.

John

[osgood]

I use Alphamat exclusively and have had problems with discontinueds a few years ago, but I don't recall having as many discontinueds as JRB mentions. They seem to be fairly stable now.

In regard to the specialty mats, I never sell them either. Couple of reasons for that.

1. People down here like to keep matting simple. They don't seem to like cutsey marbled and patterned mats.

2. Even if they did want them, they couldn't afford them. Fabric mats especially....customers would have to take out a second mortgage for one of those. The price of mats is much higher for us because of the exchange rate and the shipping to a lesser degree.

[Jana]

I wouldn't call the specialty mats cutesy. You hardly even see the design or pattern. I think the visual texture of these mats adds interest to the total design. I don't use them all the time, but sometimes they work perfectly. I appreciate all the R & D that goes into them.

Anyway, I'm in the mood to argue. I suppose we could argue about this 'til the cows come home. It comes down to personal taste. tongue.gif

As for the computer...chacun a son gout, aussi. That's my fractured French for the day.

[JRB]

Sorry Jana, the farthest I went in school was the ninth grade. Had to go to work at an early age. Also, I live in California. ( part of the USA )

The common laguage here is English, although Spanish is also used a lot. I do not speak French or Spanish, and since I'm an uneducated lout, could you please transelate " chacun a son gout, aussi ",

I do think it's wonderfull encountering people who speak French though, makes me feel like I'm hanging out with a genius. I went out to dinner with some friends a few years ago, they were all employees of IBM, they orderd dinner in French, I thought to myself, WOW, cool. smile.gif

John

[Jana]

Chacun a son gout, aussi = Each to his own taste, also. Just echoing what Nona said.

Darn, I can't get the Instant Graemlins to work. Pourquoi?

[Framerguy]

Avez-vous une souris cassée?

(Boy, I hope I got that right. If not it could be one big honkin' insult!)

FGII

[Jana]

Broken mouse? Non.

I posted this question on Warped. I still can't get those Graemlins to appear. So frustrating!!

[Framerguy]

YESSSS!!! I knew those 3 years of French I took in high school would come in handy some day!

(Now, if I can just get ahold of the French Embassy and let them know that I am packed and ready to go to the French part of New Zealand and do something French.)

(Look out LanceE, I'm almost on my way!)

Framerguy

[B. Newman]

I guess this just proves that someone of the stature in the framing world as Nona Powers, has no "power" when it comes to a frankenthread!

I hope this won't stop her from posting again.

Betty graemlins/cry.gif

[Ron Eggers]

I don't think Nona Powers is going to be intimidated by a Frankenthread, but she might wonder what exactly that is.

<U>When Good Threads Go Bad</U> (http://www.thegrumble.com/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=000464&p=)

[Jana]

I was hoping that other Grumblers would chime in about specialty mats and new colors that the mat board companies introduce, and also, about other products that we've grown to depend on that are discontinued. It's an interesting topic.

I innocently used a little French...oo la la... and got chastised. That's how the Frankenthread developed. BTW I think Frankenthreads are fun.

[Framerguy]

Mais non,Jana, je pas chastize vous, j'ai essayé d'aider avec une suggestion. Pardonez moi.

M. Homme l'Auteur (Closest I could come to framerguy on this close a notice.)

[GUMBY, GCF]

Yes, It can be very much a problem with here today gone tomorrow. graemlins/shrug.gif But as the manufactures seem to think we must keep pace with the fashion / home furnishing industry. graemlins/icon9.gif Everyone can't carry it all like they used to. Tradition is for the boring few. The new and different is for the trend and pace setters. We as retailers must realize if the trends change quickly we will have customers back in quickly. More sales!!!! :D
I just had a customer in who has 6 children all about 12 months apart in age. We have framed her oldest childrens 4 graduation pictures in the same moulding and same triple mat. Guess what numbers 5 and six will not be getting the same mat or the same frame. She was really really upset. But after a 20 minute seminar on business and change I turned it around and she will be bringing in the the other 4 to have redone and we are going to do the sixth one up also.
Remember the glass can be half empty or it can just run over graemlins/smiley.gif
As far as not being notified until the boards or frame have been out of stock call the company President or VP. Take a little of their time up to explain to you what to tell your customer. Ask them how you should handle wasting a customers time to come back in let alone yours. Ask for some compensation. Be bold be Brave! What are they going to do not sell to you any more?
Whooop sorry about the long post.
Jim
OHIO

[Jana]

Thank you Gumby for getting us back on track!

[tnframer408]

I too rarely used the decorative mats, like the Crescent marbles and the CW series (with the writings, patterns, etc), or the stucco looks.

Until our local PPFA chapter two Mondays ago had Brian Wolf as a guest talking about mat decoration.

Part of his talk was on decorative panels, and another part was on the 3-D, channel mat, or whatever it's cdalled.

Went back to the store, cranked up the Wizard, cut a few of these mats and, in the channel, laid some of these marble/decoratve mats. Looked very cool, almost like a painted or washed panel.

Now, on my display wall, are a few selections. I've got a bottom mat, a second mat formng the "panel", and the top mat.
I see it as way to sell a third mat (the middle one) plus a higher priced Wizard design to add still more money to my mat designs.

I stll keep my colors muted, nothing garish or glaring, but so far the rsults have been favorable. And, Knoxville is a rather conservative town.

[nona powers]

It is rather interesting how these threads go. This one has been a bit like a roller coaster. Never sure what will happen next, but it keeps going!

Contrasting texture is so hot right now, not coming, but here, that any mat board with simulated or real texture is going to appeal to the customer right now. Their seeing it in magazines, in stores, in clothing, architexture, everywhere. It also adds a very strong design component. However, of course it should not be used if it's too strong for the art.

Nona Powers, CPF, GCF
www.nonapowers.com (http://www.nonapowers.com)

[GUMBY, GCF]

All mat boards Make us happy graemlins/smiley.gif Some by coming some by going! :D
Jim
OHIO