Customer Problem-What would you do?

[cody]

A customer that has had her pictures since November, called today and said she & hubby decided they didn't like the frames. Told her she could pick something else and we'd only charge her our price. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/wink.gif Five frames are involved, 4 being l6 x 20. No, wants new frames for free. Said she spent $l000. and came to us because we were professionals.
What else would you do.
Thanks, Cody

[Framing Goddess]

A coupla questions...
1) Did she say what it was that they didn't like about the frames? Ask her. Maybe you could just tweak the finish a tiny bit and that would do the trick.
2) Did she give any indication back then (at the design stage or at the pick-up time) that she had doubts about these frames? If not, why not? Did they perhaps just repaint or remodel and now they don't work? Boo hisss, if so. Maybe just the mats can be changed.
3)Are they regular customers or friends of regular customers?
4)Why does she think she should get all new frames for free? Why does she think that this would be fair? Does she feel that she paid "too much" for the frames originally and that that should include "trade-ins?" (I have actually had customers think this...!) Why doesn't she reframe them and use the old frames for kids posters or gifts or mirrors or some such thing?

Now some thoughts...
I definitely would not charge them "your cost." Retail IS "your cost." I would NEVER want a customer to know what my cost is anyway. My standard policy is that we will re-do (once) at no charge. I do not advertise this policy. I only whip it out when necessary... like during this situation that you describe. If this woman is well-meaning and honest, then I would seriously consider re-doing at no charge. You can certainly resell the 16 x 20's (as long as they are in resellable condition...!!) and this will impress the pumps off her! You have to hope that it will be cheaper to re-do these than it would be to lose her as a customer. PLUS, one added bonus is that if you DO re-do them cheerfully, then she will tell all her friends how wonderful you are. A little publicity of that nature should never be dismissed! Consider it a donation of sorts!
BUT
BUT
BUT
If she is one of those conniving con-artist flakey babe types, tell her to go away and never come back. Ain't that one of the joys of being the Grande PooBah of your particular joint? Trying to decide who is who? Ah, I am sure you have a good sense of it--- trust your instincts.
Good luck!
This thang is always a test even for...
-The Goddess

[The Picture Framer]

Ouch !!!!
First thing to do is shout and scream at the wall - when you are alone of course.

Whilst you are talking high costs here, each picture costing approx $200 a piece, there are two sides to consider - the cost (to you) of the new moulding, your time to re-do the jobs - versus the value to you of this customer and her word of mouth to her friends.

Personally I would re-do the job and let her choose new frames (of similar price) and right-off the losses - one happy customer who will spread the word that you are a fair person.

Secondly you should ensure that on your invoices you cover yourself for the future by having appropriate wording.

Finally try and re-sell the old frames to someone else.

Good luck mate!!!



[This message has been edited by framer (edited March 26, 2001).]

[framer]

If someone doesn't like what they got when they pick it up, no problem. I'd do it and smile. I'd even do it a month later. But 4 - 5 months later I'm sorry. I'd bet your not hearing the whole story. There needs to be some time limit. I would be professional but firm in dealing with the situation. I would let them explain what they want to see if it could be worked out like a new mat or easy fix I might still want to charge for the work. I would not let them walk on me after that length of time. If they take advantage of your good nature they will never come back anyway and are not a future customer. A reasonable person would not make that request in the first place.

There are limits. I would also look at the frame job. If you feel it was a good design and quality is up to your standards hold firm. If you should have never sold them the design because (they picked it out and) you don't like it (and never told them) or the workmanship is not your best then it gets gray.

Sorry I'm ramblin today...

framer

[Bob Carter]

The Goddess is right on the money. If she is being honest with you and the upside is positive; I would seriously consider doing it gratis. If she's as I suspect, trying to get new reframing, I'd decline for free. Maybe split it with her for frame cost only. Case by case, I would make my decision. But if she's pulling a fast one or being pushy, nuke her.

[Charles Lowry]

Cody, Janet won't let me handle stuff like this. You're probably getting ready to see why.

I agree with framer. If she didn't like them when she picked them up, we would talk. We would talk with her satisfaction in mind. Maybe she couldn't quite visualize the whole thing without seeing it framed. If she brought it back, really soon, I might try and change something. But since November? N-a-a-h. Sorry, as the song says, I can't go with that.

Sounds like there is, in fact, more going on here than meets the eye. Anyway, I would not do anything if she's had since November to decide she didn't like the framing. I would join the Goddess with some two-part harmony on 'Happy Trails' as she left the shop. I'm sure Janet will come up with something less abrupt. This is why I stand around a lot, cutting foam core and rough mat sizes.

Good luck!!

[cody]

Thanks for getting back to me so soon.

1. Doesn't think the frame fits the picture.

2. Liked design at the time. Actually spent
an hour selecting frames off the wall.

3. New to our store & not friends with
other customers.

She talked to the manager and apparently feels we gave her bad framing advice. Had she come in earlier -with in even 2 months- I would gladly replace the frames. But, she said they have been looking at them since Nov. and trying to "get used" to them.
My cost to her would be different than my real cost.
You've armed me with great questions to ask her and ideas for me to ponder. She's coming in tomorrow to see me personally. I'll know more from talking to her face to face.
Thank you again. I'll keep you posted.
Does anyone want to work for me tomorrow? http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/eek.gif

[Jim Miller]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cody:
"...She talked to the manager and apparently feels we gave her bad framing advice...."

Shouldn't the manager be making the decision about this complaint?

Ah, yes -- It's all *your* fault...you didn't guess her preferences very well, eh?

On the rare occasions when customers have tried that one on me, I have reminded them that I can't tell what would look good to them, especially in places I've never seen. Rather, I'm here to help them decide what *they* like. I say that a lot during the design phase, too.

It's too late now, but the design phase is the best time to head-off such complaints.

Around here, we're very careful not to make color or style choices for our customers. When we're doing the design and she says "Which do you like better?", my answer is something like "For my house this would be my first choice" (pointing), but it's for *your* house. Which do *you* like better?"

We do everything we can to make sure customers understand that the choices are theirs, not ours. Customers need to know that they, not we, are responsible for their choices.

One more thing. Do you have a return policy posted in the store? We do, and it says clearly that custom cut materials may not be returned, and will not be replaced unless defective.

It's a fair policy, and it stands.

[Kit aka emrr]

I know this sounds cynical but I suspect your customer was hosting some Christmas and New Year's parties for which she wanted great framing on the walls. Now she doesn't need them anymore. If she's honestly just unhappy with her choices, I'd probably replace the frames with similarly priced ones at no charge then fill her original frames and sell them in the shop. BUT this could be the opening gambit in a game of I-want-my-money-back. DON'T PLAY. As the Goddess said, trust your instincts. It's a nasty situation; I hope it works out. Kit

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Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana

[Janet]

If a customer shows ANY hesitation at our design table, I ask them to go home and think about the framing job they're asking me to do. Rarely, do I have a customer leave without me finalizing the job. If a customer leaves and returns in a day or two to finalize the job (after they've thought about it some more) they are aware at that point that they're gonna have to live with whatever decisions they've made. No change outs to a different frame or mat without them paying more than what I've paid for it. I'm in this business to make money while enjoying my vocational choice.

I've never had this happen during the years that I've been framing so it's really hard for me to understand anyone not living with the choices THEY made.

Maybe, in our small town, your word is still your word and many business transactions are still made with a handshake.

I might offer to try and sell THEIR 5 month old, USED (NOTE: NOT PREVIOUSLY OWNED) frames for them if the opportunity should present itself.

These folks returning their work after 5 months are being completely unreasonable! I wouldn't want their "business" EVER!

I think they are trying to hoo-doo you, Cody.

This is a situation Charles WOULD LOVE TO HANDLE! Have to keep my man away from the front counter and especially any problem customers!!!

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How cheap do you want it to look??

[MerpsMom]

I may get fried for this, but do any of you, after sensing hesitation with your/their design, urge them to take the frame and mat workup home? I'm trusting them with the frame numbers, etc., but believe I've saved myself trouble with this approach. Only one have I lost to someone else entirely; but by making them the determinant in the decision, they seem willing to accept responsibility and have been pleased with their result. Maybe it's because I've impressed on them that I want them to be "absolutely comfortable" with the choice and that they will probably reach that level "seeing the selections in their own home." Could be that my clientele is perhaps different in some ways, but it has worked well so far. The technique has been used only in tough cases.

[Audrey]

Cody--

Considering the fact that she is a new customer, that she is not a customer referral, and that she's had her artwork for FIVE MONTHS, I wouldn't give her a red cent. Or, in this case, a red frame. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/wink.gif

I would almost lay odds that she's either redecorated recently, or that she's planning to. If they're gold, she's noticed the trend to silver; if they were oak, she suddenly wants darkwood. WHATEVER. Either way, it's not your responsibility to update her walls for free. I don't see Dillard's giving out new dresses to replace last season's.

The problem is, every time someone gives in to a customer like this, it reinforces the general notion that this is okay. I've worked in retail before, and I've seen customers get away with absolute MURDER because the "manager on duty" doesn't want to get that call from the corporate office, and they will do ANYTHING to avoid pissing off a customer, no matter how outrageous their requests.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. *grin* The customer is NOT always right, and in this case it sounds to me like she's trying to make you foot the bill for her interior design updates. Anybody who spent a grand on framing wouldn't wait five months to see if "they really liked it" before speaking up. People aren't that thoughtful.

Don't let her bully you into it or she'll do it again. STAND YOUR GROUND.

http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

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I don't care what color your sofa is.

[Cookie]

MM - I often send samples home with clients. I always get them back, and I don't think I've ever lost a job from it.

I'ven never had a customer ask what Cody's customer did. I did have one come back after only a couple of weeks very disappointed with her choice. She was so sweet about it - blaming only herself - and a good customer that I did replace the frame at no charge. Besides it was a small frame and not too expensive so it was well worth the good will.

This customer sounds like she really may be taking advantage, but sometimes it is worth it to take the loss and make them happy. Referrals are valuable. You'll have to judge this situation - you don't want her referrals if her friends are just like her!

[curly]

No, Nyet, Nine. Anyway you want to say it. Sometimes you just have to be firm in protecting your best interests from unscrupulous customers. No wonder "The Goddess" is "The Goddess".

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curlyframer, CPF

[wpfay]

You don't finish the meal, THEN complain to the waiter about the quality of the food.
I have had some of these types try to weasel a deal (am I insulting the varmint?), but none quite as lame as this.
I have offered to reframe things for clients that mention their concern when picking up the piece, and can't remember if they have ever taken me up on it. But with so much water under the bridge I would bet dollars to KK's that the issue is not the framing.
As Jim pointed out, a nicely framed store policy stating that there is no recourse on custom framing would go a long way to avoiding such situations.
This customer may not be worth keeping if this is a pattern of behavior you can expect from them in the future....Just Say No!

[cody]

Armed with all your great suggestions and advice I was ready to take on this customer today. If the design was bad, I'd play nice, if there was something else going on, which I suspect there is, I'd deal with it.
GUESS WHAT!
No phone call, no show.
Perhaps she decided they didn't look so bad after all if more money was involved or realized we weren't going to roll over.
However, maybe she will have to ponder my original offer for another 4 months. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif
In the mean time, I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. Will keep you posted.
Thanks, Cody

[Janet]

Cody,
Hope your call from these people was the last one you'll get from them. Without going into everyone's profile to find out their gender, sounds like us women are tougher with our customers. Seems a lot of women can cop an attitude when trying to prove their point when wanting to make a return. I've witnessed this in my retail experiences in the past and may have even gotten an attitude myself, at times.

This thread has given all of us some good food for thought and I have already got a sign being made to hang above my deposit sign to let customers know that custom work is considered final (but ofcourse it will be worded much more kindly).

I do allow a few customers to take mat samples or frame corners home (especially if the customer insists it MUST match their sofa or whatever). I've never lost a job that I'm aware of due to this and my samples have always been returned as promised by the customer.

Here's hoping that other shoe never drops!

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How cheap do you want it to look??

[cody]

I'll have a sign up soon also. Seems I have one to cover everything else.
I'll even suggest a customer take home a sample if I detect any doubt. There have two mats I replaced because the customer really didn't like the choice, but they were nice about it and I do try to make customers happy.
We pride ourselves in our design and quality. One bright note...a customer called today to say she wasn't sure about our design on a print she purchased, but after hanging it, "It is absolutely marvelous. It's perfect, thank you so much for your help. I love it." That made my day. I belive these other folks don't know what they want.
I have to remind myself we are free thinking beings and should certainly know if we like or dislike something.I think most framers on this board will steer a customer in a different direction if their choice is not a good one, but the customer makes the ultimate decision. I doubt I could take clothing back 5 months later because I decided I didn't like the color.
I really hope I don't hear from them again.
Isn't this an interesting profession.

Cody

[Greg Gomon]

Cody, I have to agree with the Framing Goddess. There was nothing in your thread to indicate this person was completely off the wall. Lots of conjecture going around and assumptions are a dangerous thing, usually wrong. You indicated this has never happened before, therefore it is extremely rare. Let's assume for a second this customer is sincere and has been embarassed to bring the pictures back...maybe even new to custom framing. Since you didn't handle the original transaction, there are a lot of missing pieces to the puzzle. Talking with her is the only way to resolve it. Sometimes all a customer needs is a little hand-holding from the owner. Not stopping by today as she planned doesn't resolve this customer service issue. Maybe you have decided this customer isn't worth having as a customer, but to make that determination prior to hearing her out or considering her concerns is really not fair to the customer or yourself. If it isn't resolved to your satisfaction it is still a pending issue and the longer it lingers the greater potential nighmare it becomes. I would recommend being pro-active and call her. Invite her to come into the shop. Set up the meeting under your terms. Most people are reasonable, looking for reasonable solutions. If she isn't reasonable, your instincts will take over. Either way the issue will be resolved.

[Janet]

Greg, you have made me think about what my reaction to this situation might be. Thanks for being so level headed and giving me good food for thought.

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How cheap do you want it to look??

[cody]

Greg:
Your post was food for thought. Normally I might have done what you suggest. I'm a fairly decisive person and like to solve problems immediately and get them out of the way.
However, I must admit my judgement is cloudy these days. My home will go on the market this week and I'm settling two estates (husband's and Mom's) and trying to run the shop.After re-reading all the posts, I realize I will have to contact the customer and resolve this issue, but maybe not this week.
Another thread might be "Do you ever become cynical?"
My mindset these days makes it difficult for me to take seriously a "framing emergency or just don't like frame". It's important to THEM I know, but I have little patience for such matters now.
Knowing my mindset is the reason I posted in the first place, I needed some common sense answers and you guys didn't disappoint me.
Sorry for being so deep. I'll do the right thing and thanks again for all the pros and cons for me to ponder.
Cody

[Framing Goddess]

Ah, The Goddess must agree with Greg G. on his point. (and not just because he agreed with her...!)
The Goddess would very much like to resolve this in some fashion. One thing to remember is that this customer DID spend $1000.00. The Goddess loves to add new members to her Thousand Dollar Club! This woman obviously values picture framing and could possibly be a candidate for the Framing Addicts Club as well. (The Million Dollar Club, I call it!) But it is good to know one's self and moods, and it is good to realize that perhaps this customer was in a "mindset" herself.
Why not drop her a little note in the mail? ...Just to let her know that she should feel free to contact you if she would like to discuss her framing... just to keep the door open. The Goddess ALWAYS wants to know if someone is unhappy with her work because she wants to have the chance to "make it right."
Just a few thoughts...

I hope your house sells quickly and smoothly and I am enclosing a bit of extra patience for you in the form of a winking smiley.

-Edie the Framing Goddess

[Greg Gomon]

Cody, I wish you the best in all things!