Humidity barrier

[Ronda]

Hello all,
So I've been lurking, oh probably for a year or 2, and I'm finally brave enough or whatever to ask a ?. What is the best way to seal artwork in a wood frame for the bathroom with alot of moisture? Thanks for any help Ronda redface.gif

[Ted]

Hi Ronda,

I've done some searching for you and you will find the answer you want in a old post dated
12-16-2000 "Framed in the bathroom". It describes, in detail, one method of sealing fine art for high humidy and rapid temperature changes. Unless you are willing to follow this or another proven method, my general rule is fine art is NOT for the bathroom.

I went to "search" and typed in the key word "humidity". It will take you to the post.

Ted ;)

[Susan May]

I don't think that there is a "Perfect" way to seal framing enough for the bathroom. If it does get well sealed, you then have the problem with temperature changes causing condensation inside the frame. Re-think the project, and write out a letter to the customer telling them of the posible problems. Have the customer sign the letter, then make three copies.

The first copy goes in your files.
The second copy goes to the customer.
The third copy goes inside the framing package, so that the nexk framer who see's the framing job (to fix it) Will know that the customer was informed of the problems of placing framing in a damp invironment.

Good luck.

Good O'l Sue

[tnframer408]

The all around best way, to my mind, is to laminate that sucker.

We've got a Kinko's in our center nd we trade business. They can do a high gloss laminate on foamboard, then we frame it. Looks really good, almost like the piece has glass on it, and for a bathroom/boat/travel camper, etc. I think it's the ideal solution.

Unless the customer wants to put a limited edition or some such thing in the bathroom.

That's a whole other kettle of fish

[Jim Miller]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Susan May:
...If it does get well sealed, you then have the problem with temperature changes causing condensation inside the frame...<hr></blockquote>

That condensation can be eliminated.

Hugh Phibbs has an excellent class about "Sealed Frames". He uses "Marvelasel 360", which is a plastic/foil laminated sheet product. It seals to itself and the glass edges (prepared with hotmelt) with a tacking iron, and is air tight & water tight. In tests, Mr. Phibbs's sealed frames have been submerged without leaking.

I think he mentioned in Las Vegas that he now has found a better product for the purpose than Marvelseal 360, but I don't recall what it is. (Anyway, I have half a roll of Marvelseal 360, so that's what I'm using for a while.)

Whatever is sealed in stays in. So, it is important to make sure everything is chemically compatible, and that humidity within the sealed package is low as possible. 20% would be good for paper art. Below 20% RH, paper tends to become brittle, and would be more easily damaged by any impact.

If all of the hygroscopic (water absorbing) materials within the sealed package are conditioned to low humidity, then condensation would not be a problem -- moisture can't condense unless it's in there.

[CharlesL]

Ronda, welcome to the Grumble!

[Framerguy]

Ronda,

Welcome aboard!

IMHO, there are at least 3 choices here. Frame the image with mats or spacers to keep it away from the glass and finish it off with a kraft paper dust cover to allow an air exchange within the frame package. Granted, moisture will get into the package when someone takes a shower. But it will also leave the package as the bathroom environment returns to a lower humidity level. But this return to a lower humidity level will take place within the package also.

Second choice is to COMPLETELY seal the entire package in a low humidity environment to entrap as little moisture inside the frame package as possible (as was suggested in an earlier post). This, if done correctly, will eliminate the environmental changes inside the package as the humidity and temps. rise and fall in the bathroom.

And the third choice is to just not mess with it. If you have a client whom you suspect will come back later to haunt your gallery with complaints when what you told them would happen ..... DOES happen, I would simply send them to somebody who you don't particularly care for and let THEM do the framing. (AND catch the flack later on).

FGII

[preservator]

Rhonda, in creating a sealed package for an
environment like a bath room, there are
certain essentials that must be recognized. The
glazing must be glass, all the materials going
into the package must be properly conditioned
(50% or slightly less at 20 degrees C. or 70
degrees F.) before they are sealed. The skin
of the package must be a vapor barrier such
as Marvelseal 360, "Metallized Polyerster"
or Mitsubishi PE/AL/PE/PET and it should be
heat bonded to the glazing with hotmelt glue
(ideally electrical grade such as 3M 3797 or
3748). The process for making one type of such
packages is described in the preservation supplement "The Science of Preservation Framing"
on the web site: pictureframingmagazine.com.
Before any items are framed in this manner, you
should make practice packages that that can
have their seal tested with a bit of spongy
material included in back to permit squeezing
or by making the contents dry and including a
cobalt salt indicator card that can be monitored
over time. Temperature should not be an issue
for a matted work being sealed, since there will
be very little air that is being buffered by
a huge proponderance of cellulose in the mat.


Hugh