Moonlighting Employees

[Bob Carter]

On another thread, a framer that was employeed by a well known framing operation was looking for advice on a project she was doing at home for a client. How do the other employeers on this site feel about moonlighting? Do you have a formal policy? If so, do you have any way to determine the source of the project? I would like to limit this thread to employeers only and any employees or others that would like to start their own thread, pro or con, please start a separate thread.

[framer]

FIRED!

If I employ a framer all framing they sell should be mine. All art if an art gallery sold should be through the gallery and a % paid to the store.

The employee is in a position working at a store where someone might approach them on the outside of business to get a better deal. This should be made clear to the employee that that is still your business.

This goes for full time and part time help. What it does not cover is project help. I've been known to help with large projects someone else has. Its time limited and I feel no further obligation is necessary.

[ArtLady]

The thought of competing with my employees makes me see a little red.

Where are the supplies going? What conversations are going on when I am not there? How safe is my customer list? Will my suppliers support an effort to establish my employee in a new venture because they are framiliar with them? Is my equipment being used without my permission to make money for someone else?

This is the employers point of view. If you want to make your employer crazy tell him you are doing some work at home for your own clients.

May I suggest that you never say to your boss, the following: "That is good to know so I will be ready when I open my own shop."
I had an employee say that to me whenever I trained them something new.



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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.

[Framing Goddess]

I have always had the policy that employees are free to do as much of their own/personal framing as they wish. They get materials at cost plus 10%. I see this as one of the few benefits that I can offer. The hitch is that they can only do this on their own time after regular business hours. It only takes ONE of their "friends" hoping to get a good deal, keeping this very busy and tired employee after work until midnight or later working on some nightmare of a project.
I have had ONE employee sell framing to one of my customers as one of "her" jobs and this customer was loyal enough to let me know. This employee was fired the next day. I call this "stealing."
-Edie the Framing Goddess

[Bob Carter]

I think I found the correct way to start a discussion. Ask for other's opinion before I offer mine. I agree completely with all the above comments. What prompted my question was the post from the new framer trying to learn the trade at Michael's while still doing work at home for friends. I can't imagine such a thing being reasonable

[JRB]

I had that happen years ago. I was operating two shops at the time. A woman I thought I trusted was managing one of them.
My CPA one day asked my why, when my other location was selling one third of what my main location was selling, was it using twice as many materials?
On a hunch, I drove by her employees house on a Sunday and saw both their cars in front.
I walked around back to her garage and looked in.
They had a full blown framing operation going in the garage.
They felt it was not dishonest since they where not doing the work in my shop. After further questioning, they told me what they where doing was when a customer came in my store, they would quote my price. If the customer said it was to much money they offered to do it in their shop at a lower price.
They felt they where being honest with me because they ALWAYS quoted my price first.
I asked them where they where getting their materials. They said that they ordered them through my shop, but they always intended to re-pay me.
When I told them both they where fired, the one younger lady started to cry, the older one insisted that I should give them both two weeks severance pay since I wasn't giving them any warning.
Bob, in answer to your question, I would fire them.

John

[Jim Miller]

I advocate honesty. If an employee ever told me he/she wanted to do framing at home -- or work part-time for another framer across town (that happened once) -- I would say "This is a frame shop; while you're employed here, do it here".

If I learned an employee was framing elsewhere & not thinking that it would be a problem, I would give one crystal clear, unmistakable warning before firing.

Also, in our company handbook stealing is listed as a cause for immediate dismissal.

[jframe]

I didn't like it as an employer, and I wouldn't think of doing it now that I am an employee. In my book it is not ethical.

[rosetl]

I've re-read this thread and others and I just don't get it. Where is the employee bashing I keep reading about? I've read that employees outright stole, cheated and lied. I didn't even get much grumble--just the stories. There are many stories that could be told on unethical business practices, both "er" and "ee".

The Grumble is great as we can share both the good and the grumbles, learn from others successes and mistakes as well. I'm not perfect, yet, either.

I also think that coming up with a non-competition agreement would be a sound business decision--one that covers what one might consider common sense business practices -- like don't open across the street nor contact my client list for XX years.

TL - Studio Frame

[JRB]

I've found, over the years that about ten percent the people that apply for a job think the potential employer is the greatest person in the world. Before they are hired, they will do anything that is humanly possible to help your business grow.
The second you say they are hired, I mean before you shake their hand to welcome them aboard, you immediately become the biggest S.O.B. that ever walked the face of the earth. They think the salary that was plenty before they got the job, was ridiculous the second they are hired. Now keep in mind I said about ten percent of the people, not all of them. But those ten percenters are something else, they will rip you off any way the can because you pay them such a crummy salary. I don't care what you pay them, it's never enough. They will go on a mission to destroy your business any way they can. They justify this because in their mind, ALL employers are taking advantage of the poor working class and are nothing but a bunch of S.O.B.s.
I had this one fellow who had a decent job at Aaron Brothers, he had been there for about six years, come in and ask me for a job. I never in my life had anybody look at me with such pure hatred, this guy hated all employers and he could not hide it, even while he was applying for a job. Boy he sure made me want to hire him.
OK, that's my Grumble for today.

John