Email Requests & the Grumble

[Orton]

March 19, 2003

I received two emails lately, from Grumblers, the last one yesterday, both of which have given me reason to do some reflecting about The Grumble.

I am constantly astounded at the number of email requests for help, technical information, and suggestions that I personally receive, in particular, from Grumblers. It is not unusual to receive anywhere from five/ten to +30 per week - averaging about 10 to 20. I can always tell when a new technique has been demonstrated somewhere, a new framer has opened for business, a new product has being launched, or when a new fad is about to roll.

I have observed that after an absence from The Grumble, upon my return, the number of emails just skyrockets - truly, it astounds me.

Some of the emails are from old friends re-connecting, some are from newer Grumble names that I am not familiar with, many are from people whose names I have never seen on the Grumble. All are welcome. However, most of the emails express some common sentiments.

One common explanation of why the email has been sent to me directly is the sender's reluctance to participate in The Grumble because of discomfort over some previous incident in which they personally became embarrassed or were witness to embarrassment at the hand of someone replying to a question. In short, they are afraid that they may be viewed as being "stupid", their question may be viewed as being "a stupid question" or that they may have to listen to someone drag on and on in reply, in a condescending manner.

The phrases ". . . likes to hear [self] talk", "hard to get the straight goods", "pushing [own] self-interests" and "hidden agenda" appear frequently enough in the emails that I receive, to list herein.

Other than agree that there are shallow people in every segment of society, I'll leave the first observation where it is.

A second common thread is the belief that I am part of a framing industry resource service, that I am paid by framing suppliers, that I am part of The Grumble's Technical Information Service, the PPFA's Technical Information Department, FACTS's Technical Department, that I am part of some government agency, or in the extreme, that I am part of the ". . . Internet's Research Service" - and that this is what I do for a living.

At times I receive multiple emails requesting parallel information, and at those times I will make a general Grumble posting in the hopes that it will suffice. I will continue to do this because it saves me much time and may elicit input from other Grumblers.

The number of emails that I receive has climbed steadily, and at times I " ... get up to my ears in alligators" - I become swamped. At the risk of shattering a myth or two, I want to collectively answer some recent emails, and make some clarifications.

I do have a day-job.

I am just a plain, ordinary, framer - I am not part of a specialized Grumble technical service - the Grumble's technical resources reside in the collective participation of all Grumblers.

I am not a scientist, nor am I a conservator, I am a framer. I specialize in CP framing, I am a member of a Canadian association for conservation of cultural property, and yes, I do frame for conservators.

I am not an employee of, or sponsored by, any framing materials manufacturer or framing supplier.

Yes, I produce my own art. I create limited-edition giclees of natural images, as much as possible, excluding evidence of human intervention. I also self-publish a series of limited edition collector posters of similar nature. All are sold internationally. Currently I do not have a U.S. distributor.

I am a CPF but I have no current affiliation with PPFA. I have not been a member of PPFA for some time now. PPFA and I differ widely on issues concerning member decorum & deportment, and absence of Canadian-member benefits. I am not affiliated with FACTS in any way.

I am not part of any government department, and I am not part of any internet-run research organization.

Yes, there are Grumblers who are practicing conservators - we are lucky to have them aboard. They do a great service by participating.

My studio operates by appointment only, I do not operate a walk-in trade. Yes, I serve tea and coffee, but not on the art or framing tables. Yes, it is a small studio.

I use a combination of flourescent, tungsten and daylight lighting - no halogens - my flourescents and windows are filtered.

The studio atmosphere is electronically filtered and is air conditioned. My framing table is surfaced with glass. Pens are not allowed on the framing tables.

Smoking is not permitted.

I use a Keencut Ultimat.

Music is always on.

Dustpaper is an alkaline pH paper, which I am rapidly running out of, and B8649 1-ply ArtCare - usually I use 969 ATG and GoodGlue in combination.

I wash my hands before handling art. Gloves? In many cases, yes.

I have two cats, both are of CP quality, and both are preparing to write their GCF's.

I carry only RagMat, ArtCare, UltiMat, a little bit of Artique, and one or two specialty boards. I do not stock any regular board.

Blade; mostly .015

GoodGlue and ATG for mat combinations: I do not rely on ATG alone.

Regular clear and TVCC by choice. I do not encourage regular non-glare.

'board is stored in polyethylene bags, filed vertically, and labeled in 2-B pencil; I try to carry no inventory, but not always successful

Foamboard and Coroplast? - see my posting in the thread "Acid-Free Foam Cor(e)"

GatorBoard? - no

Hinging: usually mulberry paper and methyl cellulose or wheat starch, sometimes a mixture of varying proportions of both

P90? - for taping in v-grooves. Never for CP hinging.

I apologize for not individually responding to each of your emails: this was the most efficient way I could handle your collective requests.

I do not want to discourage the search for information, and am always glad to be able to help out when I can. Those of you who need information in a hurry know how to find me. To those of you who prefer to email me directly, I ask for your patience and understanding when I do not reply immediately.

[jvandy57]

Originally posted by Orton:
March 19, 2003


Regular clear and TVCC by choice. I do not encourage regular non-glare.

Orton,
Curiosity is killing the cat! Why don't you encourage regular Non-glare Glass, Just curious?

[JPete]

Clarity would be my guess.

In response to those who feel they will be made to feel stupid, please post and ignore anyone who appears to be arrogant.

I've been around here for a long time and will share that many of those whom I thought at first were so arrogant have truly become among those I respect.

Long rants are skimmed by most of us and short and to the points posts are appreciated, more educational and more informative.

[ 03-19-2003, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: JPete ]

[Jana]

Hi Orton. You left a stone unturned. What kind(s) of music is always on?

I'm glad you're back.

[jframe]

Wow, Orton, I had no idea that you were being bombarded withso many emails. I hope you take as a compliment. You are so well respected. We are lucky to have you (when we can get you! ;) )

Y'all lurkers, don't be bashful. As JPete said, ignore those that irritate you. With over 2,000 registered Grumblers it is likely that many of them will share your point of view. Speak up, you can't learn from us and we can't learn from you if you are silent.

[HannaFate]

Some things I have told framers while training them:

The only stupid question is the one you should have asked and didn't. We all start out with a blank, and grow at different rates.

If you want to be a picture framer, you will enjoy it more if you are a masochist and enjoy embarassment. There will plenty opportunities for pain and feeling foolish. It's part of the job.

The only mistakes that count are the ones that get handed to the customer. Everything else is just part of the process.

Too all of this I would like to add, for Grumblers:

You aren't getting the full internet experience if you don't put your foot in the shite once in a while. I've gone in up to my eyebrows more than once. It isn't fatal.

[CharlesL]

Orton, you neglected to mention what type of toothpaste you use, and if you use right or left handed hammers.
"Inquiring minds want to know"

Sorry, just a little sense of humor surfacing at 3:45AM

[PurplePerson]

Orton, I also need to know why you do not encourage regular non-glare glass. This question came up recently and there was not really an answer.

[Ron Eggers]

I rarely, if ever, see a question on The Grumble that sounds "stupid." I do see some that are so broad in scope, that they require a lot more that an internet bulletin board to answer.

If I may presume to offer advice to new or gun-shy Grumblers:

</font> Limit the scope of a question so that it can be answered in a paragraph or two. Otherwise people will look at it and think, "Where do I start?" Better to ask several focused questions than one all-encompassing one.</font> Don't overlook the "off-line" educational resources. They still write books about framing and there are some terrific classes and presentations at the national and regional level available.</font> Brace yourself for anwers you didn't want to hear. (No you SHOULDN'T be using rubber cement to mount those giclees.)</font> Understand you will rarely get a consensus opinion here (or anywhere) about some of the questions that plague us. (Is fomeboard a totally safe c/p filler?)</font>

[Framing Goddess]

The Goddess is one of the hordes who has benefitted from direct and indirect advice from Orton.
He has contributed directly to the untangling of several of our framing rat's nests!
We use his methods on a daily basis.
The Goddess will be eternally grateful for this.

However The Goddess must concur- The Burning Question does indeed remain... what kind of music gets played in Orton's Shop?
Thanks for the laugh, Orton!
...and get back to work!
edie the flailingmywaythroughyetanotherdayofframing goddess

[Orton]

My previous reply addressed a compilation of questions from email that I received over the past three weeks or so. I've added current updates to this posting. Sorry for the original oversights, Folks.

Toothpaste:
Sometimes I get so frustrated I chew nails.

ng glass (in random order):
(1) mishandling and finger marks tend to show up more readily - bad news in exhibitions galleries, show-places, etc.

(2) softening of the image, particularly with multiple mats - however, can be used at times to enhance art - Yes, I have used it in this manner -(increased lift) to enhance a foggy, misty image for a specific exhibition

(3) an old study revealed that ng glass has a tendency to keep heat (long wave) inside the frame package - particularly with double-etched - not desirable - (glass transmits short wave energy but reflects long-wave energy - this is how greenhouses work)

(4) performance is not equal to its more-than-double-the-cost of regular clear. If reflections are a bothersome issue, in spite of its extreme cost, I recommend AR, particularly for smaller pieces.

Computer
For administrative tasks - LifeSaver, etc., no. -inventory control and pricing is done manually. Touch-pad, no mouse.

Music:
Varies - classical, pop classical mostly - never heavy metal or a-rock (only real music) - vocal and instrumental - when things get desperate the staff and I sing.

Sealing Tape
There was a day when I did not routinely seal the mat package, although I find that I am sealing more often than I used to, particularly work destined for galleries, and when using leafed frames - varies from job to job though. I find that generally speaking, a good wiping out and vacuuming of the rabbet is a good preventative measure, as is sealing the rabbet.

I have concerns concerning ventilation.

I think it was Ron Eggers (I may be wrong) who, in a discussion a year or so ago, pointed out the extra protection factor in a gallery fire aftermath. in which sealed art was protected from water damage - a week later, one of my clients' art suffered a similar accident - it made me reconsider

Dusting Brush
I use two brushes, colour-coded to avoid confusion - one is "Table" the other is "Art" -"Table" is never used to brush art. "Art" is never used to brush raw frames or the table.
Bristles are regularly vacuumed.

Mounting
I prefer sills & cleats (mounting strips) which I make myself, but will default to hinges if required.

Dust control:
always a problem - being generated constantly from the matboard itself - I try to do the best I can, but yes, it does get out of control from time to time - electronic filer and a/c- floor is hard-surfaced, tables are glass-surface - brooming at a minimum, use central vacuum

"Public" Image - choosing jobs
Mine is a modest operation. My clients pay me to do the framing, not someone else - I am the staff.
Customarily, I do not guarantee rapid turn-arounds.

I do not perceive that I am in "competition" with anyone in my region, nor do I see anyone being in competition with me -including any and all of the other framing establishments in my region (Zellers, Michaels, and WalMart included) - we may be in the same business, but no one does what I do: I provide a specialty service. Nor do I care that they may see me as their competition - that's their problem.

It is my sticker and my signature which goes on on the verso of the frame. I reserve the right to refuse a job, and occasionally I do - I choose my clients as much as they choose me. If I refuse work, I make referrals to other framers only with great caution (if something goes wrong, in the client's eyes, it is usually the referrer who is perceived to have messed up)

I am picky and I can be a pain in the neck, I don't accommodate compromises that create a potential for damage, and I may take things to the extreme - but as I said, it is my name on the verso.

I provide a written, no-strings-attached lifetime warranty with every frame project.

Hammers:
I am amphibious - or should that read ambidextrous? (I should get some sleep)

Business Hours:
At my choosing - usually very flexible (24 hrs) to accommodate my clientele - by appointment only

Cutter adjustment:
On a regular basis not on a regular schedule

Frustrations and Aversions?
I don't tolerate, regardless of position or stature, rude or arrogant people - I distance myself from them - life is too beautiful, and too short.

Heads of State clients?
True.

Business Location:
I am not in a strip-mall, must be someone else - some people would say that I'm in the Boonies - delivery is once weekly

Framing table top:
Glass - cleans easily and won't scratch materials - same cleaner as for framed - distilled water and methyl hydrate only - I usually mix paste, paint, etc., right on the glass - easy clean

Gloves (again):
At times, yes, the standard white cotton glove supplied by Larson Juhl - the trick is to ensure that the ones being used are clean (store in plastic bag) - regular washing machine, no detergent - nubby gloves for glass always

I wash my hands before handling art - particularly after making blade changes (wipe off blade first!) - packing oil, grease etc.

Pricing
I do not discuss specific money aspects of my business or pricing structure. My "retail" price, job for job, more often than not, is similar to everyone else's - it is my opinion that my clients get more value - remembering of course, that I choose my clients.

Rabbits?
I framed a pelt once, and I work with rabbit skin glue occasionally, but no, I do not work with rabbits

Rabbets:
Rabbets (rebates) sealed only if appropriate for the job or to client specification; fillets and stretchers (very seldom use strainers) always sealed upon receipt

Mice?
See "Computer" above and "Cats" below.

Cats:
Yes, they do shed, but they are certified CP, and they do help out once in a while - you know, hand me things, hold stuff for me, mouse and chipmunk control, greet clients at the door, etc.

. . . that's it Folks - no more for a while please, I'm taking some down time.

I hope that you will find these postings helpful in some small way.

[ 03-20-2003, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: Orton ]

[MerpsMom]

Fun reading, Orton. smile.gif I personally was looking for beverage preference, but will defer my curiosity for a later time.

Orton has set high standards for us all--in every aspect. (But my cat is more likely than not to bring me something I wouldn't touch with a stick--literally.)

[PurplePerson]

Thanks, Orton. I appreciate you.

[Bork]

Oh, Orton, not everything is kosher in your kingdom....

How dare you to use 969 ATG ?!!! redface.gif

Bork

[marcia]

Thank you for stating that there is nothing to worry about. I have been in the shadows reading all posts and learning from all the wisdom that flows on this site. I wanted to also note that I too do not recommend regular non glare glass for the reason that it does not reflect the light. I have taken so many framed art from 10 - 15 years ago that the color has faded from no protection. At least with regular glass the glare helped protect the print some.
marcia

[MiterMan]

Boxers or briefs?

[Jim Miller]

Originally posted by marcia:
Thank you for stating that there is nothing to worry about...I too do not recommend regular non glare glass for the reason that it does not reflect the light...the color has faded from no protection...At least with regular glass the glare helped protect the print some.
marcia Please, Orton, tell us more. Does non-glare glass actually accelerate fading, compared to ordinary glass?

I always thought ordinary glass and non-glare were about equal in resistance to fading from light; that is, UV-filtering capability.

[PurplePerson]

Yes Orton, the subject of non-glare glass vs regular glass is an ongoing discussion at our shop, especially since I found documentation that both reflect the same amount of UV rays. We always thought that was not true.

Your comment an old study revealed that ng glass has a tendency to keep heat (long wave) inside the frame package - particularly with double-etched - not desirable - (glass transmits short wave energy but reflects long-wave energy - this is how greenhouses work) was very enlightening for me.

I would like to hear more, from any of you conservationists.

[Rebecca]

Sue - it will have to be Orton or Hugh - I for one haven't got a clue. Don't you love poetry?

Rebecca

[PurplePerson]

Tee hee hee, You wrote that for me.

[Susan May]

Originally posted by Bork:
How dare you to use 969 ATG ?!!! redface.gif
As Orton once explained it to me... the ATG 969 is a tiny bit under PH netural. The "Acid Free" ATG is just a tiny bit on alkaline side of PH neutral. The PH levels of the two ATG's are less than a full point different. Since they are very close to being the same PH level, the only REAL difference is how they work. The 969 tends to be easier to work with. (Especially since the "Acid Free" ATG is *goopy.)

* Goopy is my word, not his. :D

[Orton]

Hi Folks

. . . sometimes boxers, sometimes briefs, at times, regimental.

ATG
969 ATG pH is 6.8 (often lower than the wood moulding itself) - but for the most part is used outside of the framing package (dustpaper), with GoodGlue, pH 8+.

Inside the framing package, on sensitive projects, I use 806 Acid Free ATG with Good Glue, or just Good Glue, never ATG alone.

I do not use ATG, any type of ATG, alone - I always back it up with CP paste or Good Glue.
ATG may, over time, allow mats to slip (you have all seen this I am sure) or in the extreme, let go altogether.

Fundamentally, I use ATG to hold things together while the glue dries. . . unlike a friend of mine who uses heavy-duty staples to supplment ATG. (see "ATG Anecdote" at end of this posting)

Regarding ng glass:
Has little to do with UV. UV is at short vave-length end of the spectrum - we are talking about long-wave energy i.e. towards red & infrared.

In broad terms, Sun's energy transmitted through regular glass heats up the mat package. Mat package re-radiates it as longer-wave energy, which is not efficiently (1) transmitted through glass and thus stays inside the mat package.

The interrrupted surface of ng glass tends to endlessly (2) reflect the re-radiated but now longer wave energy, also inhibiting its efficient escape - energy tends to stay inside.

The result is the accumulation of energy creating elevated temperatures for longer periods of time.

What you decide as a glazing policy is based upon a matter of degree.

ATG Anecdote: A Related, Albeit Apocryphal, Story:
Sometime ago, a florist friend of mine supplied a gold-lettered ribbon for attachment to a large funerary bouquet. The deceased was a well-loved old soul, known for her enormous size (she weighed well over 300 pounds) and for her enormous sense of humour - she always loved to get in that one last laugh. Sadly, she passed on.

The gold-foil letters of the florist ribbon were stuck to the backing with peel-and-stick ATG and formed a very touching farewell message from her grieving husband: "My God, She is Thine".

At the time of committal, just as the casket was being lowered into the grave, it was duly noted that at some time earlier, the last letter "e" of the farewell text had fallen off . . .

Literary:
Know it, I'm not a poet.

[ 03-24-2003, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: Orton ]

[Orton]

A Correction:

The acid-free ATG is #908 not 806 - pH is 7.0 to 8.5

. . . my apologies