I cannot BELIEVE this! (customer)

[Audrey]

You know, I like to keep an open mind concerning people who don't know a whole lot about framing; I think the preservation of the picture framing industry lies in education and a good product.

BUT I CAN'T BELIEVE THE WOMAN WHO CAME IN YESTERDAY. She brought in three of her own frames, in which she had family portraits. She comes up and says, "Would you mind breaking the glass on these?"

"Why do you want to break the glass, if you don't mind my asking?"

"Oh, I want to get the pictures out," she says, smiling as if I'm being silly.

Was it wrong of me to stare at her for a good five minutes before mustering up the breath for a reply? http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/wink.gif

I spent a good ten minutes demonstrating that frames are "back-loaded" and can be taken apart at NO RISK to the glass. She seemed truly intrigued.

I'm truly appalled. LOL And I can't help wondering how many times she broke her own glass at home, before taking it to a professional.....

That's a new one. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/biggrin.gif

------------------
I don't care what color your sofa is.

[Lance E]

So you missed a glass sale then? http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/wink.gif
WOW! thats a pearler.

------------------
"If at first you DO succeed, try not to look astonished!"

[Susan May]

Audrey, please find smarter customers! http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

That's OK, I have had customers think that all they could buy in our shop, was what was on the wall. I was trying to show them a few choices for Diplomas, and she actually told "Oh, I can't get that... It has someone else's name on it." (Like I'm going to sell someone's Diploma.) http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

Keep the Faith, they are not all like that... some are worse!

[MerpsMom]

A new female customer of mine recently thought she'd be helpful in suggesting that perhaps I could get my husband to cut the glass for her picture. Presumably she was worried that small blondes are too delicate to engage in such manly arts as glass cutting and frame construction: another of her thoughtful concerns. (Now...I mean, she's standing here looking at saws, thousands of frame corners, and other weird equipment: what can possibly go through their minds??) And she's the one to tell me she wants wire on her 30 x 40 mirror because "that's the way it was." And, dear dipstick, that's why it fell. Sigh.

[Heather]

I had a young male customer (about 17 I'd guess) come into the shop where I worked during the week before Christmas last year. He chose a metal frame and one mat for this photograph of his. Then came the question everyone asks the week before Christmas, "How soon can you get this done?" I looked at the schedual and decided we could do it in 3 days. "THREE DAYS??!" he nearly hollered at me. "Why is it going to take you soooo long to frame such a little picture? It's not that hard, all you have to do is cut a hole in that cardboardy thing. Here, gimme a knife and I'll do it myself!" By the time I managed to pick my jaw up off the floor I was ready to let him see just how easy it was to cut a mat with a knife. However, I restrained myself and explained calmly why it was going to take 3 days, and why that was the best we could do.

Where do these customers come from??

[JRB]

My all time favorite was this lady who came into our store several years ago. It was a busy Saturday, lots of people in the store.

She held up an 18"X24" frame in front of her so it was vertical and said " All your frames go this way, I need one that goes this way" and she turned it on it's side so she was holding it horizontally. She just stood there holding it and staring at me waiting for my answer to her dilemma.

I was tempted to tell her we had a shipment of horizontal frames on the way in but it would be several more weeks.

Before I could come out with an answer for her ( I was speechless for a few seconds) she was able to figure it out all on her own.

It did not help much when some other customers started clapping for her problem solving ability.

John

[cody]

Sometimes I wonder if we are on Candid Camera because I can't believe the dumb questions customers ask.

[Audrey]

JOHN--

I'm afraid the coffee I was drinking when I read your post is now splattered all over my monitor. LOL I can only imagine that woman's embarrassment...she was probably red for days.

Speaking of the "holes in the cardboardy thing," do you have people who think they can cut their own mats and save some money, and then bring in the hatchet-job for you to salvage? LOL I had a woman call on the phone the other day, demanding to know where she could get a "good" mat cutter, because she framed a lot, and had purchased one of those $60 dollar ones, and it "isn't coming out very well at all, but framing is RIDICULOUSLY EXPENSIVE, and I don't want to pay retail for it."

I coolly gave her United's web address, and warned her that she could expect to pay at least $700 for a good mat cutter, and that she'd need a tax number as well.

I wonder where she gets her mats cut now.... http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

------------------
I don't care what color your sofa is.

[Susan May]

When Webster's Dictionary describes a Mat as:

"n.1. A border of cardboard or similar material placed around a picture as a frame or to serve as a contrast between the picture and the frame."

It's no wonder people don't want to pay us to do the work. What we need is a dictionary that correctly describes what we use, as well as what we do.

(Cardboard? I have chills running down my back!)

------------------
Sue May :)
"Everyone is born right-handed, only the greatest can over come it!"

[JRB]

Audrey,
I can remember when picture frame shops did the same thing.
when I first started out framing in the early sixties mats where cut using a straight edge and a very sharp utility knife.

Before you cut a mat in those days you had to hone your knife blade until it could split a hair.

It took me six months of practicing every day before my boss said I was good enough to start cutting single mats for customers.

When I got my first " Real" mat cutter it was like going from **** to heaven. Kind of like when I got my Wizard.

That first mat cutter was a Dexter cutter, one of those little chrome things you hold in your hands. I was cutting triple mats with total confidence. I wasn't afraid to sell anything, as long as it was a regular mat. We still pushed fabric covered for ovals and rounds, fabric wrap hides a lot of flaws.

Customers coming in thinking they can cut their own mats has been going on forever.
It was a lot easier to convince them otherwise in the old straight edge days.

When I show them my Wizard they are convinced it's not such a good idea fairly easily as well.

Give them Fletchers phone number for their "Good" mat cutter.

John

[sumik]

I would love to read more posts...but I have to go change the oil in my car. You know that $21.00 is an outragous price to pay!! http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/tongue.gif

[Bogframe]

Q: How much do you charge to frame a picture?
A: What is it a picture of?
Q: Don't you have anything cheaper?
A: Thumbtacks.

------------------
Seth J. Bogdanove, CPF
21 years framing and still loving it

[Greg Gomon]

Oh my, y'all know how to bring a smile to
someone's face!

This happened last week. An individual brought into the shop an original 16 x 20 lithograph for "cheap" framing. She wanted us to float it on a matboard (didn't want to pay for a "hole" to be cut in the matboard) AND insisted the Filet material she selected would make a nice "Frame."

We didn't take the order...we were tooo expensive. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

[Scott]

During the 80's I worked at a Deck the Walls store in a mall. A woman came up the counter and in a serious tone asked where the "Mauve" prints are kept. At first I thought she was mispronouncing a artist's name. Nope, she wanted to know where the mauve colored prints were kept. I so badly wanted to tell her they are in-between the red and grey prints. Guess what color her couch was?

[po' framer]

As I read this, I can't help but think that a shrink would be in some kind of fantasyland if they got to hang with us!

We would no doubt be told that it would be therapeutic to quit holding back those awesome quotations and let 'em rip. Think of the staff benefits........

I am modestly infamous at the local college for my best customer service example given during a symposium on business growth: someone pops in on a bad day and asks me if I'd make them a half-sandwich. (this during a busy lunchtime, but it's generally no big deal as we do that all the time) For some odd reason though, it really strikes me the wrong way and before I can grab hold of my tongue, it has mouthed the words, " You wouldn't go down to McDonald's and order half a burger, would you? Just take the other half of the #### thing home with you or something."

I still get people coming into the shop barely able to keep from laughing after they heard that at the symposium.

Yes, that's probably the reason I'm still called po' framer instead of wealthy framer or something, but you wouldn't believe how much lower my blood pressure is nowadays compared to when I had to pretend to enjoy whatever someone wanted to serve....

The reason I work for myself is because I decide who the **** I'm going to put up with on any given day. And when my tolerance level happens to be low for someone who takes themselves too seriously .. que sera sera and ce la vie or whatever.

One should be careful, I would think, because one never knows for what one could become famous.

[Orton]

Well, Audrey, here's another one for the books. I think that we, up here in the Great White North, are experiencing End-of-winter-lunacy.

I met with a new referral who insisted upon having his artwork framed using only full conservation technique and asked if I frame to "museum" [i.e. c-p] standards.

"Yes, that is my specialty" I answered confidently.

. . .whereupon he asked to see some samples . . . whereupon, I showed him my demo cutaways.

. . . whereupon he argued against the employment of MarvelSeal and RabbetSeal in the rabbet and insisted that only well-aged wood should be used. He explained that "If wood is aged properly, all of the acids evaporate. Only wood that's been aged twenty or thirty years can be used."

. . . whereupon I explained that no matter how old the wood, pine will still have a pH of 4.1-5.3, that ramin will still show 5.3, and that oak will still tip the scales at 3.8. . . whereupon he said that " . . . pH has nothing to do with it! We're talking acids here!"

. . . at which point I did not know whether to laugh or cry, decided that laughing was better, and asked him to go home, consider whether my technique was appropriate to his needs, and to come back another day when he
had made up his mind.

Where do these folks come from?

I am still laughing!

[curly]

Audrey, Could you rename this thread, "Those Wacky Customers"?

------------------
curlyframer, CPF

[alan beitz]

Orton , wouldn't you just love to know where these "experts" get their information - and just you to attempt to change their mind -
Regards -- Alan

[Audrey]

Po' Framer--

I find it faintly frightening that you mentioned McDonald's, because good ol' Mickey D's came up at the shop here as well.

A guy comes up to the counter today with a large picture--the glass had broken--and proceeds to try to "sweep" all the pieces away at the counter.

One of my co-workers asked him to please not dump glass shards all over our design table, and he leans over the counter and starts screaming, "YOU'RE JUST BEING MEAN TO ME BECAUSE YOU KNOW I WORK AT MCDONALD'S! IT ISN'T FAIR AND I WON'T %&$#% STAND FOR IT! YOU ARE NOT BETTER THAN ME!"

Lest anyone think he was remotely sane, he was not in McDonald's uniform, so the only conclusion we can come to is that all the liquid smoke has gone to his head. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/wink.gif

I guess they really do love to see you smile.... http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

------------------
I don't care what color your sofa is.

[Janet]

Audrey,
Maybe your new signature should be "I don't care if you do work at McDonalds" LOL

People amaze me daily as they bring in all the glass pieces that fell out of their frame stacked on top of the other broken glass still inside the frame. What do they think we want with all those glass shards? Are we supposed to superglue them back together?

One customer brought in an 8 x 10 certificate frame that must have cost them a grand whopping total of $1.99 with his college diploma scotch taped inside. Since there was just the little cardboard hanger piece that sticks out of the backing, after several years it had fallen from the wall. There must've been 50 little tiny pieces of glass that the customer had "saved" for me. He thought I might be able to use them by cutting them down (duh! to what? about 1/4" each" for those teensy framing jobs?

------------------
How cheap do you want it to look??

[Frame Harbor]

Dear friends,
Can you stop this complaining of how stupid or cheap YOUR clients really are? I bet Bob Carter, Jim Miller, Marc Lzier or Goltz have their own low end visitors, maybe less frequently than others, but I don't recall them ever sharing such mondain stories in the Grumbler. It hurts me to see people being taken away by such childish topics for, my fellow framers, I respect you too much.
We are not good cooks either and that does not stop us from going out to dinner and be demanding or expecting the best treatment our money can buy. I am terrified at the thought that some cooks and waitresses would ever do the like, on their Grumbler corner, speaking of a bunch of participants to FrameOrama show that once happened to be their clients (dinner in their restaurant).
Believe you me, it's childish and self-degrading to persist on such low topics, for (why do I need to spell this right out?) more frequently than none we choose or invite people or events we live through to be or happen just the way they do. I bet that Jacob Munn was never ever asked to be giving credit for an old piece of glass, was he? Please, we need to use and display a little bit of class first, in order to invite and expect a classy clientele. And if we have chosen to make our money from the lower end of the market, we have no reason to complain of our working environment. That money is equally good.
Cornel

[This message has been edited by Frame Harbor (edited March 10, 2001).]

[cody]

Oh, come on, this thread is hilarious. "Break the glass to get a picture out".....that's funny. We all need some laughter in our lives and this IS the "Grumble". This has nothing to do with low-end, high-end or where people work. Customers frequently frustrate us and where else to blow off a little steam or share stories than here. MHO

Cody

[Charles Lowry]

Thank you, Cody!!

Well put. This is the Grumble. We have the ability, and the priviledge to read or NOT read any thread we like. I have run across some I was not interested in and did not feel 'elevated' enough to chastise those involved in the discussion. What I generally do, if I'm not interested, is go on to something I AM interested in. Let the folks talk about the price of tea in China, mats in New Jersey or whatever.
If I deem a topic "mondain", I try and not be judgmental. Who am I, after all, to determine the importance of what someone else is interested in. Nor do I believe in throwing around the names of other framers. That would presume that they agree with my opinion, and it is taking on quite a lot of responsibility to speak for others.
I have read threads that each person on here commented in. I have learned something from each and every one. I will continue to read the threads I'm interested in, and those that amuse me. I will also continue to NOT read those that do not apply to me or my business interests.
Thanks again, Cody

[Frank]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Frame Harbor:
I am terrified at the thought that some cooks and waitresses would ever do the like, on their Grumbler corner, speaking of a bunch of participants to FrameOrama show that once happened to be their clients (dinner in their restaurant).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So Cornel...just what exactly are you doing in restaraunts that so terrifies you that someone would be talking about? http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/wink.gif Lighten up a little. All the various trades talk about their idiot customers and yes I'm sure they've talked about me! My only hope is they had a good laugh, even if it was at my expense. This is a great thread wish I had a good story to add to it.

[Susan May]

Frameharbor, I have said it before... and I'll say it again! "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all!"

Keep the stories coming!

I just love it when the customer comes in and looks at you (standing behind the counter- cutting mats) and asks, "Do you work here?" I always want to say, "No I just thought that this would be more fun than dancing." http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif
Silly Sue

[Kit aka emrr]

Well, silly me! I thought the Grumble was for grumbling.

In an effort to be high toned I will mention the following caveat (that's Latin - pretty classy, huh?)

It's a good idea to remove the broken glass in front of the customer if possible, thereby avoiding "it wasn't scratched like that when I brought it in".

Kit

------------------
Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana

[Charles Lowry]

LOL, Sue!!!

[Frame Harbor]

Friends,
Sorry to disagree with you on this one. There is nothing laughable about a client's ignorance or tight budget. All my clients are framers and I never laughed to anyone's inability to discern gold from metal leaf, white gold from silver, carved wood from compo, or being puzzled by angles or joining basics etc. and, also, never thought someone to be cheap for not being able or willing to buy my stuff. If anything, I am responsible for erroneously taking a chicken for an eagle and I laugh to myself.
Yes, Cody you are right customers frequently frustrate us but, so do our children or spouses (well, at least sometimes)... Instead of straight talking to those unwanted clients, we take their abuse, and then rediscover our rectitude and self-confidence in a friendly and sympathetic forum? And, Yes, Cody, it has to do with what end of the market we tend to place our businesses at. I cannot believe that an educated, affluent, frame addicted costumer will ever ask to trade the old frame's glass in, bargain like a Turk in Istanbul's main bazaar or break the glass in order to take the picture off the frame. We laugh here at primitive clients. They lurk at the bottom of the market. And who needs them? Who needs to mention such clients in his "portfolio", anyway?

[Audrey]

As the INSTIGATOR of all this, http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif I have to speak up in defense of this thread. There are very few people whom framers can talk to who understand our unique frustrations and rewards....so it's a blessing for all of us to be able to laugh about it among company who knows it best. I think it's helpful and, frankly, hilarious. (And the one about the lady with the horizontal frames had me going for days....LOL)

And Frame Harbor, if you think that we have ANYTHING on what is said behind kitchen doors at your favorite restaurants, you're in for a nasty surprise. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif As someone who worked in them for five very long years, I can tell you that you, along with everyone else on this post, have probably provided fodder for all kinds of jokes, mockery, and general hilarity.....it's the only way to diffuse steam in a very high-stress industry, and believe me, you don't want to know what is said. (It's just as funny, though. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif)

Seriously, stupid people can wander into even the most "high-brow" frame-shop, and when they do, I think they're fair game. *evil chuckle* If we can't share our stories here without risking criticism, where can we?
This isn't the "Picture Framer's Elevated Dialogue Of Framing Techniques And Customer Appreciation."

This is the Grumble. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/biggrin.gif

------------------
I don't care what color your sofa is.

[Frame Harbor]

Audrey,

Because I know that you are a nice and sharp thinking young lady, I invite you to calmly balance my arguments. Don't try to defend yourself as you are under no attack from me. Quite the contrary, I like the way you think. Remember? I am taking on principles alone. Maybe I'm being a bit too Teutonic here but, nevertheless, I believe that I am correct in my value judgment.
Due to my peculiar trade education, I'm being put into a position from where I can fully relate to frame makers, framers and their suppliers at the very same time. From this platform I extract my liberty to speak up my mind to you. Let's see if we can agree upon this points:
1. as most grumblers don't know each other in person and could not see each other's shop and work, the only product we really prize or criticize in this forum is our thoughts
2. many threads translate a desperate need for a better technical grasp of the trade (angles, joints, mounting, cleaning, mat cutting etc).
3. there are many who ask questions (The Juniors) and just a few, always the same, who know the answers. Let's call them The Seniors (no age implication)
4. most of those who ask questions are business owners (for workers ask their seniors),
5. how to do things and how to save face is much more interesting area of investigation for grumblers than making more money or growing their business
6. the only time Seniors get silent and Juniors take over completely is when addressing "Girls, can you believe this" sort of topics.
Now, Audrey, you tell me what's more laughable or distressing to you: a fellow that needs guidance within the basics of his own business or a client that admittedly knows little and occasionally looks/is cheap or stupid while addressing the framing expert?
Sorority sympathy or consolation doesn't address the source of the aggravation so, I cannot see it as a remedy or reparation regardless of how much I try to.

[cody]

Frame Harbor: I have a high-end shop. Being poor doesn't make us STUPID, being rich doesn't make us SMART. I value EVER customer that walks in the door. I try to educate them if need be. For years I pampered one customer with traded glass, old frames, etc. An intelligent lady, not much money. Now she has money and is spending thousands of $ with us. Glad I didn't blow her off!
Quote: "They lurk at the bottom of the market. Who needs them anyway".
Does one have to bring an IRS statement with them to do business with you? My business is in a public venue; my doors are open to everyone. I try never to judge my customers by their appearance, it's deceiving.
Still love this thread and wonder if anyone ever walks into a restaurant asking if they serve food, like people walk into a frame shop and ask if we do framing. Would a menu or hundreds of frame samples be a clue. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/wink.gif
I want to hear more funny stories, bring them on gang! Relieve that stress.

Cody

[Charles Lowry]

Cornel, I agree with you, in part, and there's nothing wrong with being Teutonic.

However, I think of this forum as composed of framers. Some are more experienced than others. I wouldn't term 'us' as Seniors or Juniors. I know you meant no harm, and you would class me as a 'junior'. But, Junior or Senior, we all make our living as framers, or as you do, as an industry that services, sells to and deals with framers.

Our shop has customers that bring in a piece, whether it be an expensive oil, or a 31/5 X 5" photo. They leave it with my wife and say, "Just do what you think looks best. I don't care how much it costs." We also have customers who are very much budget-minded. They want it done as inexpensively as possible. We accomodate them, as long as we don't have to compromise our framing values to do so. Guess what? We have found that the budget-minded, or as it is often referred to here, the low-end customer's money pays the bills just like the rich folks do.
The power company doesn't care if the bill is paid with 'high-end' money or 'low-end' money. They just want their money.
Here in the South, I have found that the richer the customer is, the less they want to spend. Most of them got their money by pinching pennies, or being 'tight' as we say.

As to customer's knowledge of framing, why would one expect a rich customer to know more than a poor one? Money is money. That's why I am framing; to make a living, and do the best job I can. I've seen your beautiful work on your web-site. Do you really care whether your customers know how to hand-carve a beautiful, gilded frame? If they did, and could afford to do so, they would do their own. Most of our customers don't know how to frame, so they bring it to us. We are glad to accomodate them, make them happy and send them along, anxiously awaiting their next job. We are free, still, to laugh at a customer who, through ignorance says or asks something outrageous. That is why/how Audrey started this thread. Maybe you do not, but I found it endlessly funny that a customer, rich or poor, genius or imbecile, would think the glass had to be broken to get the art out. We don't laugh in their faces, that's why we are laughing here. We try and correct their thinking, and inform them of the industry-correct way to do things.

So.....If this thread is disturbing to you, you should find another that interests you, or start one of your own. I'll read it, and, if I disagree with you, I won't feel obligated to point out how "I" think you are wrong. I'll just move on to another thread.

We have a hard-fought-for right to be wrong, and we quite often are. That's why it's called The Grumble.

Quote: 'when addressing "Girls, can you believe this" sort of topics'
Quote: 'sorority sympathy or consolation...'
Any of you 'girls' want to address those quotes?

Now, on to more outrageously funny customer stories. Enough philosophical meanderings that detract from the original subject of this thread.

[This message has been edited by Charles Lowry (edited March 11, 2001).]

[cody]

Charles: You really went there didn't you...."girls". http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/eek.gif lol Where's Janet? Help!
I'm starting to think we've been had as how could anyone take this thread so seriously?
I agree with you opinions l00%.
On a lighter note:
How about the lady that asked us to come cover her pool table with foamcore so she could use it as a dining table at Christmas.

Cody

[Charles Lowry]

LOL Cody. Would've been an opportunity to interest her in some fillets for borders, some beveled cuts for bowls, saucepans, etc to fit into. I prefer a linen mat, perhaps one that would match the napkins...I never really thought about it, but there's a lot you could do with a pool table...Maybe I need to glean our customers that own pool tables and send out a 'mailer'.
Reminds me of the 'fancy eatin' table' the Clampetts had. Tell me more, y'all. I love it!!

[cody]

Oh shucks, I never thought of the fillets. But I did think the side pockets were an excellent place for the veggies. LOL

Cody

[JRB]

Frame Harbore,
If this wasn't cyberspace, I'll bet you'd have a wedgie by now.
John

[Marc Lzier]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frame Harbor:
[B]I bet . . . . Marc (sp)Lizer(sp) . . . have their own (ed)peculiar customers(ed), (assumption)maybe less frequently than others(assumption), but I don't recall them ever sharing such (sp)mundane(sp) stories in (ed)The Grumble(ed).[QUOTE\]

They just take too long to write. Anyways, they make great dinner stories. Of course that's dinner with a table of framers. Anybody else would be bored stiff.

Don't even get me started.

[This message has been edited by Marc Lzier (edited March 11, 2001).]

[Frank]

Hey, how about one on a framer? I had a framer with 6 years of experience (low end poster shop) ask me which side of Truvue's reflection control faced out. Turned out she had been doing it wrong for 2 years. Not a single customer had complained.

[lise]

What about customers that walk into my store, walk right up to the design table, look at over 700 corner samples covering the wall, and ask, "Do you do framing?". Had it happen twice this week and I almost said, "Oh no, we just sell these corner samples."

------------------
Lisa Kozokowsky C.G.A.H.
Frameswest Inc.

[Rick]

<H2> ONLY NON-CHRISTIANS CHARGE FULL PRICE</H2>

O.K. I got a story of biblical proportion, about three years ago we had a Mexican National( the term used for a rich person from Mexico) come into the shop and want some framing done. Here in San Antonio, the rich people from Mexico attack our town year around in armies of SUVs and Mercedes with fists full of dollars and attitudes to match. Even though the have more money in cash on them than we make in a month, the poor souls have zero taste.
The funny thing is that they still have that third world open air market with chickens hanging in the windows attitude when buying in America.
You want proof, here it is. The closer to the border you live the more truthful this will sound.
O.K. here is the story to end all stories.
<HR>
This man and his wife pull up in a Mercedes Benz (the long one with the windsheild wipers on the headlights)and come into the store.
"Does anyone speak spanish?" he says.
I, being hispanic can speak basic Spanish but not more than conversational, called Hope, one of the ladies I work with, from the back, to help them out.
They went to the design counter and started pricing some frames. Of course they went straight for the huge gold frames on the top and racked up an order of over a thousand dollars within minutes.
When the order was done the man looked at the print out and asked what was his price?
Hope told him that she was not the owner but could take 15% off the order if thats ok.
The man continued to angle in Spanish for a cheaper price( remember, chickens hanging in the windows) and growing nicer by the minute.
After a few minutes of "why is it so much" by him and "framing is very expensive to produce" by Hope. The man started to actually get mad because he could not get the price break he wanted.
His final statement to Hope was "What kind of Christian are you that you won't help another Christian out?"
I lost Hope at "who the **** do you think you are questioning my faith" after that, it was just Spanish spoken at the rate of machine gun fire.
In a loud voice the man remarked that he will be damned to let a woman talk to him that way and wanted her to apoligize for her behavior.
This is were the story really gets great.
Hope walked out of the shop and got the plate numbers off the Merc and came back into the shop.
She handed them her husbands card him and told them that she was filing a complaint to revoke there travel visa on the grounds of assult to an American citizen.
<HR>
The card read:
Robert Holgiun
Director of I.N.S. Texas Division.
<HR>
True story.... Ain't this great....

------------------
If you don't take care of your tools, they won't take care of you.

[Frame Harbor]

Hi,
I am answering back to you before I read your in put, just to make it fair. Need to say that I'm glad to see so much activity in this forum (with me as a catalyst). If we continue like this, United is going to have Nike for a competitor any time soon. LOL. I need to say that you probably didn't accept my point and this is all right. We are all entitled to our views.
Now I go back to read your thoughts andI'll get back to you with a new post only if I am grossly misunderstood or misinterpreted.

[Rick]

Hey senior Harbor,
Seems by the amount posts on this thread, you are speaking for the silent minority. I really don't like being put into a junior category either. Framing has changed so much in past few decades that being in business for a long time has nothing to do with. What was the standard in the early eighties is now the worst thing you could do.
There are over a thousand people registered on the this site and we all can learn and grow from one another as well as laugh together. We are all grown adults and don't need a hall monitor or teachers pet giving us detention while the teachers is out of the classroom.
These threads are titled and divided for a reason.
P.S. Once you speak of or write something regarding priciples, those priciples belong to you and you have to be prepared to answer for them. THERE ARE NO FREE PUNCHES IN LIFE.

[Frame Harbor]

Cody,
I was referring to those primitive, barbaric costumers that will break the glass in order to take the picture off its frame. But I don't exclude the others that will try to nibble at your price and bargain as if you cheated on price, they know better, and try to get the job done for the right price. These are the costumers I wonder to be wanted by anyone.
You are right to value every costumer and I am glad to know a high end store owner that accommodates such an array of costumers.
On a general note, I need to get this right as I am teaching my kids otherwise. You really mean to say that stupidity does not necessarily lead to poverty or that some time it's instrumental into becoming rich? Or the other way around, being rich doesn't mean we are smart? Show me a stupid rich person and I'll guarantee you that he's got nothing to do with his wealth and, before late he'll become a former rich, currently poor, yet stupid man. But these considerations are way off the road, as I made no one stupid or smart but, professionally savvy or not that savvy yet. And not even this aspect is in any way, shape or form insulting, as everybody learns how to walk before running. Right?
I only noticed and disliked the ironic posture in which professional framers (not all that secure in their own field of expertise) deride other people's inadequacy in a field that's not theirs to master but ours. I don't know, don't care and don't need those clients you are complaining/laughing of/at. But my sense of fairness told me that somebody needs to turn the mirror toward grumblers themselves. At least once in a while as a way to get us think and improve. This is why I invited framing workers and suppliers' opinions on framers. As nobody showed the courage or the interest to do it, I played the devil's advocate.
JBR,
You know my English is weak. I looked up my dictionary to learn what wedgies might mean. Didn't find it but, I guess you are right. LOL.
John, be fair and give me that much: if I stop posting, grumblers days would be much longer. LOL.
Marc,
Believe it or not, I was missing you too. BTW, I liked your last article in PFM.
Charles,
You are such a nice person. You are a keeper indeed.
Rick,
I am not keeping track who's who. So, don't feel like I put you in any category. Speaking of standards, I am the worst example for I am hundred years ago minded. Cant even stand comparison.

[This message has been edited by Frame Harbor (edited March 11, 2001).]

[JRB]

Frame Harbor,
Wedgies cannot be explained, they must be demonstrated.
Go to the nearest university that has a good athletic department. Look for a group of young fellows that are on the football team.
Ask them what a "wedgie" is. I know, in my heart, they will give you a demonstration.
John

[cody]

Frame Harbor:
I think we get the point. Thank you for your concern.
We are intelligent framers having a little fun. Try it sometime.

Cody

http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/biggrin.gif

[Bob Carter]

Cornel-A wedgie is a sophomoric prank pulled by bullies when they sneak up behind you and pull the waistband of your underwear up out of your pants. You just,unfortunately, got a verbal wedgie. Sorry

[Audrey]

TO ALL WHO HAVE DEFENDED THIS THREAD:

You have expressed yourselves better than I ever could...LOL....I thought at the start of this thread, and STILL think, that poking fun of silly customers is the only way to stay sane in any retail business....and it's better to do it behind their backs than to their faces. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/wink.gif

And Frame Harbor:
I understand your point, and it is well-taken; I don't think you meant it maliciously, as I originally thought.

But you said something in your last post that REALLY got under my skin, and I'm afraid I have to protest. If English is your fourth language, I understand your difficulties with all the subtlety, but it's plain to me that you don't speak American yet.

To say that stupid people remain poor, and only smart people are rich, is to attack the very fabric of this country, and I take it as an insult. I know a **** of a lot of very rich CEO's who don't know their ### from their elbow--to use another helpful Americanism--and a lot of poorer people who are working for them, doing all their thinking for them. And by this standard of yours, ALL of your wealthy customers must be smarter than you, because I guarantee that most of them make more money than you do. A high-end frame shop, by definition, needs customers who are wealthier than it is in order to survive....

And a lot of the top one percent of this nation, income-wise, know more about stabbing people in the back, stepping all over people, and ###-kissing, than they do about basic intelligence. Is that smart? Depends on who you ask....but to say that the people who DON'T are stupid, for not playing corporate games, is the most rude and insulting thing I've ever heard.

Sure, a few fortunate people start a company, or invent something, or write the software we're using right now....but the vast majority of wealthy people in this country aren't smart so much as opportunistic....and from all the wives I've waited on with their husbands' Gold cards in their hot little hands, I have to say that if THEY'RE smarter than I am because of what they used to get where they are, then I'll stay stupid, thank you very much.

I don't have a beef with rich people, any more than I do with poor people. I'm closer to the latter myself, obviously....but to say that people who don't consider wealth the end-all of their life's pursuits are STUPID is to categorize an entire population of people who put other things first. Things that may not have a monetary value...I don't have to name them, do I?

You can't buy them, but you'll die a lonely and bitter person if you don't get them. And I'm sure there are a lot of rich people who are both....

But they're smarter than I am, of course, so who am I to talk?

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I don't care what color your sofa is.

[JRB]

WOW !

[sumik]

Right on Audrey! But really, I didn't think Frame Harbor was saying that poor people are stupid. Only that rich people that are stupid,that didn't earn their money themselves will soon lose it because of their stupidity. (of coarse,maybe I am too dumb to understand his meaning.) Oh yeah,the next person that comes in and asks if we do framing is going to get "no" for an answer. Just to see what their reaction is. I'll let everyone know what happens.(Hee,hee :P )

[Frame Harbor]

Audrey,

Listen, I am pleading for principles out here and we agree more than you'd like to admit it. By the way, you'd make a good politician for you are smart and know how to gather people's vote. Your populist speech pleased many voters. LOL. But get this: as I grew up in a communist country, slogans and pathetic words mean nothing to me. Please, don't tell me about the very fabric the American live and success is made of, as I am part of it. I may not speak American well enough, but I blend in this country industrious and inventive tradition pretty well because, don't worry, except for a good education and normal ability to think and learn, I had to reinvent myself over, from dirt up, some thirteen years ago, in good American tradition: that is without a family, without friends, without speaking any English either. Had I ever been dirt poor? You bet, I had. Had I been stupid? I hope not.
So people, I have first hand experience that smart, intrepid, industrious and temporarily poor is a likely stage in possibly successful people's evolution. The key word is evolution (Bob Carter would call it growing). LOL.

Interestingly enough, we all fell for Cody's diversion. She missed my point or wanted to say something original about people being stupid/poor/smart/rich and we all act as if I made someone stupid, smart, rich or poor.

We are so far off the initial track. But, believe it or not, I am happy for finally you dropped those innocent, cheap, stupid client concerns (and phony psychological cure for your daily aggravation) and took on me, your fella'. That's a healthy signal for finally you brought home the good humor and stopped being polite or partisan minded based on little more than our Grumbler citizenship. And as you showed some promising signs of good humor with me, you should have no problem with laughing at other fellows too, or at yourselves on occasions, as I do. LOL, LOL, LOL http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif



[This message has been edited by Frame Harbor (edited March 12, 2001).]

[Janet]

Cornel,

I admire and respect what you have lived through in order to achieve where you are today. American humor can be both sarcastic and hilarious at the same time. Most of us relay funny stories that happen to us daily and they are not intended to "put down" anyone. They are simply too funny to hold inside our own selves without sharing all the answers we'd loved to have been able to say if these customers were not the ones who pay our salaries and keep our businesses going. Therefore, the grumble is the perfect outlet for us to share with peers who have selected the same vocation.

I imagine that your children come home from school and tell stories that happened during a school day and they might find humor in many of them. You, not having grown up and developed your humor here in the US, probably do not understand a lot of what your kids may perceive as funny. That's okay too! If I were to go to your home country, I probably wouldn't understand ANYTHING that was meant as funny over there (especially because I speak no other language besides English- and at times, I can screw that up too!)

Audrey's story and many others shared here in this thread have been wonderful. Please just read them for what they are meant to be...funny things that happened at work!

Regards,

Janet

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How cheap do you want it to look??

[Susan May]

As a person who has been in the retail end of business for 23 years. (Quite an accomplishment for someone only 33 years old.) I have had the chance to see a lot of "Dumb" things said/and done by a lot of intelligent people.

I work near NASA, and have quite a few people who are HIGHLY intelligent as customers. Just because they know how to run the Hubble Telescope, of work with Astronauts, does not mean that they have any education in the framing industry. Intelligence alone does not make you well rounded... only an interest in other subjects can do that.

I will also honestly say that one of my brothers graduated from college, on the Deans List. (Which is high honors... almost the top of his class.) It was a computer and information technology college. He is very intelligent, but he knows nothing about how to frame. He also forgets to do simple things, like lock the front door when he leaves the house. Does this make him "stupid"?... No, just focused. I don't expect him to know anything about framing... and he does not expect me to know how to use a computer. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

Now as I get off my Soap Box... Back to the subject.

As a customer you have a chance to say things that you can't as a clerk. I was in a book store when another customer started to "Chew" the clerk out. She wanted to return a book that was bought off the sale table, and their store policy clearly states that there are no returns of sale merchandise. She was claming that she never saw the sign... So... http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif I walked up a little closer to her and turned to my friend, and said, "Look, they post their store policy right behind the cashier so it is easily read by all literate customers..." Then I followed up by reading the entire policy. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif The lady got frustrated and walked out. I sure felt good!

Oh, and by the way... not only did the manager and cashier thank me, but so did three other customers. None of which could believe her actions.

Sue

[wpfay]

Amusing and embarrassing anecdotes from the world of framing...isn't that where we started?
A long time framer friend/competitor whose shop was located only two blocks away was wonderful for his philosophy of "who needs instuctions?". He had been in business at least 25 years and during the course of one year I gave him the following "tips".
1) Aerosol Glass Cleaner: point the nozzle at the little black dot and shake the can before using (he hated the stuff before this).
2) Phaedra Mitersaw measuring bench: level the infeed and outfeed benches with the saw bed. His were sloped down at angles of 10 degrees or so and couldn't understand why he couldn't get good miters.
3) C&H single bevel mat blades: You guessed it. He just couldn't figure out why he was getting those nasty hooks in the mat, but worse than that, they didn't happen all the time.

I helped him find he error of his ways without making him feel any lesser for it, and perhaps his framing improved.
I've had these stories to tell for years now, and no one to tell them to. Thanks for listening Grumblers.

P.S. I'm really getting to like the concept of a "cosmic', or "cyber" wedgie. Perhaps framer could come up with an icon for that.

[JRB]

I always thought a wedgie was a way of demonstrating to a friend that they should lighten up and not take everything so seriously.

What we need is some sort of warning flag on a "FUN" thread that wedgies will be issued to all those who want to look for dirt in a church.

Any egomaniac can find something wrong with any statement, all they have to do is twist things a little. The sad part is they think they are real "smart" when they do it.

Framer, we need a new icon that shows a wedgie.

John

[Susan May]

I am offically putting in my vote for a "Wedgie" Icon. We already have a smiley just for Zorro, why not an icon for "Just for fun"?

(By the way... where is Zorro?)

Good O'l Sue

[Charles Lowry]

John, I'm still laughing!! As Barney Fife would say, "You're the cat's!!"

I agree, framer, we need a 'wedgie'. Wedgie symbol, that is. It would have justified the time to get it together on this thread.

More stories!! I need more laughs, I've been painting fretwork furniture!!

Thanks, all!

[Frame Harbor]

Framer, I am fully supportive for the wedgie icon idea and even have a proposal: isn't it a multi-angled frame icon a good symbol for a wedgie? After all, "Everyone is born straight frame maker, only a few overcome it" and those must be wedgied first! LOL http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif
Ops, I did it again. Ma' bad. Love you each and everyone.

[This message has been edited by Frame Harbor (edited March 12, 2001).]

[Audrey]

Well, I'd like to spill more "customer dish," but somehow I can't think of any. All the fun's gone out of the thread....kind of like when a fight breaks out a party and everyone goes home early. *grin*

So suffice it to say that the next time I come across a stupid customer, I'll post it under the headline "RESTRICTED: Only Those Who Can Smile May Read This."

Frame Harbor, I think you take all this far too seriously, and while you pissed me off yesterday, I realize now that this just isn't your kind of thread....if the fact that adults like to get together and swap funny stories strikes you as "immature" and "pointless," maybe you just don't have much of a sense of humor. I guess it's not really our problem.

And I'm far from a politician...and if what I said in my last post strikes you as political grand-standing, I'm sorry. I'm not up for office...I said what I meant, and if it sounds too much like your politicians back home, that's not my problem. A few of us actually say what we mean; maybe words mean nothing to you, or where you come from, but again, that's not my problem.

So will the next person with a funny story please post it in a restricted thread, where only people who like to laugh can read it?

God knows I could use a good chuckle at someone else's expense right now. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/wink.gif

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I don't care what color your sofa is.

[framechick]

The way Audrey worded the topic was a pretty good clue as to what she would be posting. I didn't read it as a judgement or condemnation of clients. When I tell my family about an outrageous request a client has made I have to then explain why it is outrageous because I am the only framer in the family, just the way that the four who are in law enforcement have to explain it to me when they start talking in police ten codes. Here I can just say "She didn't want me to make the mat wider because it would cover too much of the picture." (One of my most frustrating customer service moments - we both knew she wasn't understanding what I was trying to say)

I wish I had a funny story to share tonight, but can only think of several frustrations currently plaguing me. That's why I need the diversion of this thread.

[Frame Harbor]

Audrey, now you are being impervious to humor. You may have fun on my expense. It's free, and more entertaining than laughing at absent (minded) costumers. At least you know that your sarcasm reaches the target. Do you prefer to deride someone else's limitations/mistakes within the Grumblers family, go ahead, it's a free country and you are entitled to your opinions and freedom of expression. Clinton and Bush are endless sources of good jokes. In the open. Why not Grumblers then? Laugh is great therapy. Why do you want to save it for one of a kind - once in a while type of costumer only? Why to call frustrations jokes?
And Audrey, Grumblers already have a Jokes dedicated arena, an out pouring reservoir of magnificent humor and demolishing funny jokes yet waiting to be posted. You see, I am not against having good time, good humor and a good laugh. Quite the contrary but, in my humble opinion, correct me if I am wrong, your giving the right reply to those difficult or just retarded clients is the necessary ingredient in order to turn an otherwise embarrassing situation into a hilarious moment for all of us to share. Good joke makers are people of courage for they stand up to be answered or retaliated for their remarks. The lack of proper response is what makes it laughable. But you didn't mean it that way, or did you?

[curly]

Audrey,
Please, Please, Please close this thread. Frameharbor just don't get it. And as we said in the Sixties "He's bringing us all down."
Someday, we'll all look back on this and laugh. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/wink.gif

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curlyframer, CPF

[cody]

I agree. We have a heckler in our midst. We have been taunted, insulted and had our words twisted by a "fellow professional?". Who needs that!!
Cody

[JRB]

I also agree, Frame Harbore ruined this thread completely. He just plain could not take a hint to butt out. I think the only defense we have against him destroying more threads is for us to ignore his input completely. Just do not respond in any way to his ramblings.

In the meantime, lets end this thread, it ain't going where it was supposed to go, no more.

John

[Charles Lowry]

"He's dead, Jim."

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Charles

[Audrey]

Consider it closed. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/frown.gif

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I don't care what color your sofa is.