Black core as conservation matboard???

[tgfu408]

We've been using a lot of the Crescent "Noir" matboard---61610 and 61684--as well as the Bainbridge Snowlflake, Fairfield Whiteand Talc Black Core.

All these are touted to be part of these companies' consrevation lines.

BUT--in our racks, the black rubs off on those mats that are in back of them.

This leads to the question: if this black rubs off on my sample mats, what's it gonna do if I lay them up against my limited edition pieces of art??

To date, we've been using them mainly on poster art and that stuff that costs under $50.
But I'd like resoultion to this since just today we've sold four higher-end limited editions, which is what brought this to mind.

I particularly steered the customers away from these matboards 'til I hear from y'all on what you think.

------------------
Michael LeCompte CPF

[Susan May]

Mike,

I have thought about that myself. Personally, I don't use the bainbridge Blackcore. I found their pricing to be too close to the paper mats, and it scared me. So when i use Blackcore, I use the Tru-Vue Miller mats. Or, better yet, I paint the bevel. (When you paint the bevel you know that you have acid free mat, and paint, and you also have a wider choice of top colors.)

Susan

[Ruth Yheulon]

I could be wrong but....I believe that Crescent and Bainbridge regular black core mats are not conservation quality (hence lower prices) But the Bainbridge "Sable" Core and Crescent "Noir" are cp quality. Miller True Vue also has a line of "Classic" mats in both white and black core that are equivalent to paper mats, they also have a line of "Ultimats" in both black and white core that are cp.
I'm thinkin that the only time that the black comes off is when it is slid in or out of a bin but when it is in the mat package it is booked in place and will not "rub" against the art, again could be wrong but this is true with the Brite Cores too.
Ruth
54 degrees in Michigan, the kids are in front of the store with short sleeves and skate boards! (makes me wonder about the snow removal contract we signed http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif)

[TRACY ART & FRAME]

If in doubt, line the mat with 2ply rag

------------------
Diver Dave

[John Gornall CPF]

Cresent has "Ragmat Noir" a cotton core conservation mat in a few colors.

[preservator]

This concern is certainly justified. Any mat
board should be tested for what is called
"crocking" (i.e. rubbing off). There is actually a machine called a crockometer that
quantifies this by rubbing one thing on another at a given pressure, over a known
number of repetitions. Anyone can do this
by rubbing one board on another one that is
white. If anything comes off, as Dave said,
the donor board should be lined with two ply.
This is a physics problem, separate from
the chemistry of the board.

Hugh

[tgfu408]

But, guys, these are the mats I'm talking about: the "noirs" and the Alphamat Artcare black cores.

They all rub off in my mat racks and I cannot believe this is a truly conservation mat.

But, as one other posted, I can always line the back with 2-ply.

But is that really an answer??? I mean an EFFECTIVE answer when these folks are touting these as conservation quality???

------------------
Michael LeCompte CPF

[Orton]

"Black" core must not be confused with "sable" core. They are different!

[PicFrmProd]

Here is at least the scoop on the TruVue (Miller) line of matboard.

Ultimat and Ultiblack are indeed conservation boards in all the colors available.

The line of special matboard called "Classic" mean that the facing papers are different and special looking, but there is a problem with the facing paper ONLY. The core is EXACTLY the same as ultimat and ultiblack. This classic line will NOT pass one of the tests to qualify as conservation board. That test is the bleed test. If the board is soaked in water for 24 hours SOME color will be released.Remember the core is the same so if you don't think you're going to drown the art you will likely be okay with the "classic" line. The final matboard product offered by TruVue is International White. Same facing paper as Ultimat, core will STAY white but is NOT conservation material. As I understand, it can be mixed with ultimat as long as it does not touch the art. Caution for very fine art of course do NOT do this, I-white is lignin reduced, but not lignin free, it is acid free and as all of you know that's only part of the conservation question...or in other words acid free does not automatically mean conservation. This is not an advertisement for TruVue, just information as I understand it. Perhaps someone would offer up similar information from Crescent and Bainbridge so everyone knows about all three major manufacturers.

[tgfu408]

OK Orton--ya got me.

The stuff I'm talking aboutis the Bainbridge 800 series of color cores: some black, some blue, some pink/flesh, etc etc.

I don't care about the nomenclature: they tout is as their Alphamat--supposedly museum grade BUT--the black still rubs off.

Can anyone tell me whether or not to use this stuff==without as someone has earlier posted without a 2-ply rag backing???

------------------
Michael LeCompte CPF

[John Richards]

The color core Alpha's are conservation quality and the Noir from Crescent is Rag. Use them both, but if the rub bothers you certainly line with 2-ply. Again, your not solving a conservation problem, just fixing the rub. (PS) Have not heard this complaint from either board. As a distributor, I've heard 'em all.

John

[Susan May]

When in doubt, find the color you need in Acid Free (white core), and paint the bevel.

I just did a job last week with mauve bevels. Not a color I would have chosen, but it looked good in the end. (Just one word of caution, painting a bevel gold makes it look like it is acid burned.)

Sue