dye?

[Al E]

I have about 300 feet of raw poplar moulding. I would like to make it black. How it looks is not important since all I want it to do is disappear. Whether or not the grain is visible is also unimportant and the rabbet can also be black.

It seems to me that the easiest thing would be to dip the whole thing in dye. I don't want anything oil based and don't want paint. Does anyone know a waterbased dye I can use? Someone mentioned anneline dye, what is that? Any advice would be appreciated.

[EllenAtHowards]

I don't know a thing about dyeing wood. Therefore I will pontificate. hehehe In the art supplies world, a rule of thumb is that dyes fade and pigments don't. This is why markers are a poor choice to use in drawing. They will fade and/or change color. Of course, there are pigments that fade too. Watercolors, for instance, are marked as to how fugitive (technical term meaning how easily they fade)the pigment is. There are exceptions to dyes fading. Indigo is a pretty stable one, but black can be composed of many dye substances and could be a problem. If it were I, I would get a pair of rubber gloves and a rag, and wipe on a dark wood stain (even black, maybe. They are formulated for wood and I surmise that they would be the best choice. Boy, does the following disclaimer apply! \/

[JFeig]

It all depends on what you mean by black.

If you want a consistant deep color show nothing, you will need the hiding power of a paint. If a splotchy transparent color is what you need, dye will be ok. The absorbition of the dye will vary with the hardness of the grain of the wood.

Check with Woodworkers Supply, or Rocklers for wood dyes. They come water based, or alcohol based.

[Mitch]

You can purchase a black Gesso at art supply stores that is made with pigment and is waterbased.

[preservator]

You could try a craft store, looking for "milk"
paint = casein.

Hugh

[Gerard]

Last weekend I did two chairs in black. I used the black dye finish from Shaker workshops. This is a black opaque finish with no splotches and fine covering ability even on hard maple. It dries quickly (water based) and this formula has been used by the Shakers for a long time.
I also have been using aniline dyes on my woodcarving for many years. I used the water based variety as it is more color fast and easier to control (for me). I have a piece of carving that is hung outside in direct (south exposure) sunlight for two years now and it still has good color although is fading. Use a metal rabbit sealing tape to keep art work from coming in contact with the dyed surface. Aniline dye is many times finer than stain and will penetrate much deeper into the wood cells, hence its advantage.

[wpfay]

I use India Ink...nothing much more stable than carbon.
Sand the poplar, and apply a couple of coats of India ink (get the real stuff, also known as China Black), and let it dry. Lightly sand the surface to get rid of and grain that has raised. I then put on a sealer coat, sometimes use Minwax Wood Sheen just 'cause its easy and finish with more coats of oil/poly finish or wax with Carnauba Paste Wax. You may need to do a bit of steel wool or Scotchbrite between coats.

Don't be discouraged if the ink takes on a dark gray look before the sealer is applied, thats normal.

The process yields a consistent black finish (good for covering the color inconsistencies in Poplar) that allows the grain to be evident. I think the process is sometimes called "ebonization".

EDIT: If you want a real high finish on this, you can hand burnish the surface with a folding bone or piece of polished stone. It compresses the wood fiber on the surface and makes a beautiful shine. CAVEAT: This will take way too long to be cost effective on 300', but you might try it on small frame just to see the look.

[ 11-07-2003, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: wpfay ]

[Kit]

Is spray paint too obvious an answer?

How about black shoe polish? It shines up nicely and saves the extra step of applying wax.

Kit

[Jack Cee]

Black annelin dyes work just great but they will raise the grain in the wood and sanding will be necessary. The dye will not complete the process as you will have light and dark spots showing through. Any exposed glue on the wood will not cover. After applying the dye and sanding your base, apply a mixture of shellac and lamp black or laquer and lamp black. The colors used to color cement will do the job for you.

I have used black gesso also and been happy with it; be carefull that you do not use an overspray of material that will remove the base material; it may act like paint remover (been there, done that).

A good quality black spray paint may be your fastest method.

Jack Cee

[Reynard]

I stain frames black all the time.I have used liberon water based dye before but it takes too long to dry(overnight)so I now use a spirit based dye which is far better and far quicker.Its a methylated spirit based dye so its touch dry in under ten minutes.I then build up the finish to whatever is required.

Or if you can,t be bothered with all that then go into an art supplier shop and buy a tub of artists acrylic,water it down a bit and paint it on.If you get the right consistency all your brush marks will disappear as it dries.It dries in under an hour normally.

Or if you want a more exclusive look then gesso the frame up and paint it black and polish over it.I do tons of these every week.

And if you use dye then always brush it in as wiping it on with a rag doesn,t do the job as well.

[ 11-07-2003, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: Reynard ]

[Jill]

AL E

Crafter's have been dyeing wood with "Rit" dye for years. It is the same product you use to dye clothing. This will give the impression of stain.
You can find the product at any Walmart, and the staff should be able to tell you how to do it.

Hope this helps
Jill Hennes CPF
Omro Gallery

[David N Waldmann]

Spirit based dye may not be light-fast. IMHO water-based is best, it's just more work. The Liberon Palette Wood Dye is extremely effective the Ebony is very black and has great covering power. For the best results, follow up with their Black Patinating Wax. Available through Sepp Leaf Products (NYC).

[Terry Scidmore CPF]

I was a finisher at the first store I worked for. The owner had the habit of buying the really odd colored discounted latex paint and spray paints from the paint store. One time he came back with 8 gallons of a color pretty close to Crescent Bimini Blue. We could never get real good colors like black because you had to pay full price for those, so we got pretty good at mixing the stuff together to get what we wanted. We would just slop on the paint with a rag, wipe off the extra, and put the sticks on the rack to dry. We put latex paint on everything - close out matboard (the owner also bought 300 sheets of Bimini Blue matboard when it was closed out), moulding, liners - especially those hideous crushed velvet liners in colors like rust, avocado green, and chocolate brown. A really nice touch with the crushed velvet liners was to paint them sort of black, lay the sticks on the floor, stand on a ladder, and mist them from above with the dented silver, copper, and gold spray paint cans that he had also picked up. The mist would settle on the velvet like a veil. The customers loved it. We sold it. My boss was a happy man.

Oh, yes, another quick way we got moulding colored was at the auto body shop. If they owed my boss money for something (I never did quite understand why this would happen), we would haul 300 or 500 feet of moulding down the street to the auto body shop so they could paint it in whatever color they wanted. Then we would haul it back and figure out if we needed to "tone" it with one of our exclusive colors of designer latex!

[Reynard]

the spirit based dye I use is lightfast.

I was told that the main difference between the water based dyes and the spirit based ones was not the actual dye pigments but it was the carrier for the dye ie water in one case or methylated spirit or even white spirit in others.The issue to me was speed and thats why I went for meths based stains as they dry to touch far quicker than any others I have used.

But I agree with the last poster that spray painting is much faster for that amount of moulding.I suppose it depends on what quality of finish you are wanting.I spemd more time sanding the moulding smoothe than I do actually putting the finish on.

[JRB]

Alcohol based dyes or stains ( spirits) will not raise the grain, they also do not have the fade resistance that water based dyes have.

If you are just looking for a quick black easy finish, just get some acrylic black paint. Mix it up in a can with a little water until it's a sloppy mess. Put on an apron and rubber gloves. Dip a lint free ( cotton ) rag into your black goop and start wiping down your mouldings. It's fast, cheap and easy.

John

[Reynard]

Then buy a spirit stain that IS lightfast :rolleyes:

[Al E]

Thanks for the responses. With all these options I'm going to start experimenting to find the right method for my application.